[jwi]

I think with lots of this it's about whether your body is adapted to the stress. Yes fingerboarding before a board session or climbing outside might take a lot away from the latter initially, but you'll adapt to doing it over time.

I don't know, a few years of adaption time was not enough for me (rather the opposite, the problem became worse)... YMMV

[James Malloch]

I was quite adamant I didn’t want it to feel too “training” like.

Always find it so strange when climbers are this averse to training, even when they're keen to improve. Very much seems like trying to have your cake and eat it!

I’d much rather improve by just climbing though. And I’d just just as happy climbing 7a’s as I would be climbing 7c’s. The only reason I really want to improve a bit is that at the closest crags I’d just run out of stuff to try without repeating things.

I’d personally not be training now if I wasn’t coming back from injury (or at least not doing anything structured). The main aim at the moment is to keep finger rehab going (which I might as well do on some of my weaknesses) and have fun 👍🏻

[User deactivated.]

It's funny how we're all different. I'd train even if I didn't climb.

[Bradders]

Me too 

I’d much rather improve by just climbing though. And I’d just just as happy climbing 7a’s as I would be climbing 7c’s. The only reason I really want to improve a bit is that at the closest crags I’d just run out of stuff to try without repeating things.

Fair enough of course, although you've summed up the main reason I've always been motivated to improve; there's so much more to do! You're missing an entire world of movement and experiences if you simply can't do the moves. The time investment is obviously higher so fair enough if that's a limit, but just "I don't want to train" is a bit weak really. No offence meant by that James BTW, just always found it odd, and it's in no way specific to you!

[Fultonius]

Me too 

Where's Nibs when you need him? 

One thing I'm really enjoying about more structured training is having more resilient fingers. I went through the classic cycle of crimping everything getting pulley injuries, switching to open handing everything, still getting finger injuries when crimping... Of course, careful focussed training of crimps is going to make your fingers more resilient.

[James Malloch]

Me too 

I’d much rather improve by just climbing though. And I’d just just as happy climbing 7a’s as I would be climbing 7c’s. The only reason I really want to improve a bit is that at the closest crags I’d just run out of stuff to try without repeating things.

Fair enough of course, although you've summed up the main reason I've always been motivated to improve; there's so much more to do! You're missing an entire world of movement and experiences if you simply can't do the moves. The time investment is obviously higher so fair enough if that's a limit, but just "I don't want to train" is a bit weak really. No offence meant by that James BTW, just always found it odd, and it's in no way specific to you!

No offence taken at all. I find it crazy how people can train so much

I think the main thing for me is that I generally improve by just doing things, it just takes longer. And I’m happy to go to the wall, do circuits, try hard on the board etc. But I hate the idea of having to think about what I’m doing and what part of my “system” it will improve etc.

Maybe this 10 week block that I’m doing will change my view a bit!

I’m the same with running. I want to improve, but I’d do it by just doing longer runs, or adding some steeper runs in to get better at them.

The downside of this approach is I generally injure myself at least once a year in most activities I do which could probably be avoided if I was more strict. But they are varied enough activities that I can just drop one for a while, and focus on the other a bit more in the mean time. And due to the lack of real goals, the setbacks don’t matter.

The lack of training over the years is probably why I got called kitten fingers! Confirmed by lattice years ago with my 8a stamina and 6C strength 

[Fiend]

Nowt wrong with kitten claws

[Duma]

I want that route so bad

[Fiend]

James Malloch Anti-Training Protocol will get you up it no problem. Especially if you can already plank for the same time the route takes to climb.

[cheque]

Well I’ve no excuse then.

Out of interest do you find fingerboarding has helped you a lot?

What’s helped me gain stronger fingers is fingerboarding methodically. I learnt the necessity of that from doing rehab after my huge near-fatal deckout. The long hiatus from climbing helped my longstanding finger tweaks to heal too. A positive spin would be that I got the opportunity to start climbing again from scratch but with the knowledge I’d gleaned from ten years of making it up as I went along.

I didn’t understand the need to be consistent and patient in gaining strength when I first started climbing (I had no sport or even exercise background apart from climbing in the Scouts as a kid) so I’d just try and do stuff that my fingers weren’t strong enough for and damage them. That’s why I was cringing when I read your advice.

[Wellsy]

I think these days I'm quite methodical in my training, so I do agree consistency is key, but I do also think that there is such a thing as very regular intense stimulus that is slightly less than maximal to get you over a hump.

Probably if someone said "what should I do?" I wouldn't necessarily recommend what I did, but if someone else did it, I wouldn't necessarily tell them to do otherwise, and I wouldn't be surprised if it worked.

I also do think that a lot of injury, finger injuries in particular, come from having weak fingers, rather than overtrained ones. I'd get someone psyched for climbing on the fingerboard ASAP tbh. The quicker they get strong, and the stronger they get, the less injured they'll be.

[AGib]

In my experience, a lot of improvement in fingerboarding (especially initially) is in the specific adaptions to fingerboarding itself. There is of course some carry over to real climbing which is why it's useful - but just important to remember its not 100%. (However, fingerboarding does provide some benefit in terms of setting training goals i.e. working towards 150% bodyweight, or 100% bodyweight on 20ml wth one arm for example.)

I think boarding climbing is more specific for outdoor climbing and a good way to practice it in the context of other aspects of training like contact strength, momentum, timing, technique etc.

If you find your fingers don't feel worked enough on a board climb, you can make it harder by:
1). Making the holds smaller
2). Wooden holds mean you have to squeeze harder
3). Taking away a thumb catch
4). Making the feet much much worse (<- my personal favourite)

Principally though, whether you are doing either, you need to focus on intensity rather than volume. Every set/climb should involve you getting angry and summoning EVERY morsel of try hard you can summon

[mrjonathanr]

If you find your fingers don't feel worked enough on a board climb, you can make it harder by:
1). Making the holds smaller
2). Wooden holds mean you have to squeeze harder
3). Taking away a thumb catch
4). Making the feet much much worse (<- my personal favourite)

Yes, I like #4 too because trying and failing on nasty crimps makes me fear for pulleys. I set a board problem recently on really quite good holds, all full pad. But the footholds are terrible. It's hard.  Works well.

[Paul B]

Poppy poor feet (I'm looking at you Beastmaker boards) make me fear for my tendons more than anything!

[mrjonathanr]

Small but good feet in the wrong place or orientation work all right though. They just make the moves very foot focused or powerful.

[Wellsy]

From the point of view of fingerboarding vs board climbing, fingerboarding isn't really very climbing specific is it? I mean it is, but in a S&C sense; fingerboarding is base physical strength in a particular area, board climbing translates that into generating power from small holds, contact strength, accuracy etc.

So if we were S&C coaches looking to improve someone’s sprinting, and that someone is untrained, we'd get them doing squats for a strength base, then plyos for power, then we'd increase the sprinting to translate the strength and power into running really fast.

So from a climbing perspective we do fingerboarding for strength, and then do we board climb to turn that strength into climbing movement improvement? That seems right to me (admittedly nothing like an expert)

[DAVETHOMAS90]

Nowt wrong with kitten claws

I can't remember Fiend, have you climbed much on the Culm, and Baggy.

Better for strong calves perhaps, rather than fingers.

[duncan]

From the point of view of fingerboarding vs board climbing, fingerboarding isn't really very climbing specific is it? I mean it is, but in a S&C sense; fingerboarding is base physical strength in a particular area, board climbing translates that into generating power from small holds, contact strength, accuracy etc.

So if we were S&C coaches looking to improve someone’s sprinting, and that someone is untrained, we'd get them doing squats for a strength base, then plyos for power, then we'd increase the sprinting to translate the strength and power into running really fast.

So from a climbing perspective we do fingerboarding for strength, and then do we board climb to turn that strength into climbing movement improvement? That seems right to me (admittedly nothing like an expert)

That's how I see it if you're talking about 5-10s hangs on both arms. Short duration 'speed pulls' or 'velocity pulls' with one arm are probably a bit more specific.

As cheque says, another benefit of a fingerboard is it can be a good tool for rehab.

[Wellsy]

Campusing on edges would work for that I guess? Rather than bigger juggier campus rungs that is.

One day I might do some campusing on the rungs. I had it thoroughly beaten out of me by basically everyone I know last time, and rightfully so, but still.

[Nibile]

[DAVETHOMAS90]

Back in 1990, in Sheffield, living with Bubba, Ian Vincent, Danny Brooks and occasional others, we had one of the first boards.

Pollitt and Ben had one.. I think it was just before Jerry built his. (The cellar of Jerry's old house - where they filmed "We're training for 8c+" and Ben gets kinky, is now 9A Smithywood Road  ).

On one small section of 45 degree board, we put a ladder of 20mm square section "rungs". To begin with, it seemed futuristic just to lift your bum off the deck. These were basically 20mm sloping pinches. It wasn't long before I was laddering them. Flippin amazing section of board.

Small wooden holds that require accuracy are key, starting with big feet, and getting progressively smaller.

[Wellsy]

Out of interest how regularly do people fingerboard? I've started doing it twice a week with an aim to one-armed hang the BM2000 central 25mm edge by the end of the year, but I'm not sure if a third weekly session would really help progress.

[Fultonius]

Out of interest how regularly do people fingerboard? I've started doing it twice a week with an aim to one-armed hang the BM2000 central 25mm edge by the end of the year, but I'm not sure if a third weekly session would really help progress.

BM2k has a 25mm central edge?  I thought it was 20mm for the lower central bit?

[Wellsy]

I thought it was 25mm, but could very well be 20mm yeah. Basically that one.

[Fultonius]

/pedant mode...

Lofty aim, but with your base 2-handed strength sounds achievable.  Maybe just do one every 3 days to start with, see how it goes?  You should be able to judge for yourself how well recovered you are.