[DAVETHOMAS90]

Tricky. Do you have to apply a grade for how it was done ie pre-break, pre-kneepad, pre- new beta etc 

Is it that much of a can of worms? pre-kneepad, pre-new beta grading is just climbing something with a bad sequence. From a listing perspective, the only tricky thing is pre-break as I suspect it'll be hard to know exactly when a lot of hold breakages occured, who did it pre break, who did it post break etc. Especially for things that have broken multiple times, been fixed etc.

Pre kneepad is not climbing something with a bad sequence.

I obviously agree 

Without going into that debate here, how inept Ben was at finding the better sequence at the time  etc, I think the list does need to include the historical ascents.

The routes aren't fixed things.

Wil Bosi climbs Britain's first 9c, but some punter with a knee pad breaks off a crucial nipple of rock, trying to get a knee scum on the crux undercut - sorry  . The route is deemed unclimbable at anything below 10a..

Should Wil get in the list at 9c after the route is re-climbed? Eg. yes, re Moffatt on Progress (as you have in the FA list); what's the status of Total Eclipse for instance? Couldn't see Hooligan/Dunning btw?

I think the routes should be included both as they were, and how they are now. Just my thoughts on that one.

Great project Remus 

You could just put a date next to the route, using that as a link to the "route at that time".

[DAVETHOMAS90]

Trying to be a bit more constructive, I was thinking, re trad routes - again, I think important from a historical perspective - there were plenty of routes climbed years ago, which were a product of their era, but still really significant in terms of the "sport" grade.

I'm thinking of routes like Requiem at Dumbarton. I think it's 8a+ ?
I can still remember the headline in Livesey's Rock Notes: "Cubby and Scotland's hardest yet".. about '84 IIRC.

Screaming Dream at Froggatt, how does that stack up? Even Revelations was first climbed on a bolt and a couple of thin drilled aid threads - similar grade/time to Requiem.

I think routes of this significance should be included - and great to be reminded of them!

There will be routes that were originally climbed as "sport-trad" which have subsequently been retro'd - and those that haven't, just because of rock type.

How many trad routes are there, harder than say 7c+ ?

I appreciate it will require a great deal of further research, but I think it could be really valuable.

Thoughts?