[tomtom]

Albeit RRP but that’s how much the latest Organic Backcountry pad is 😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱

https://rockrun.com/products/organic-backcountry-pad?goal=0_aab826b63c-9c95fad2bb-155886877&mc_cid=9c95fad2bb&mc_eid=d413d1bd61

[Oldmanmatt]

Albeit RRP but that’s how much the latest Organic Backcountry pad is 😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱

https://rockrun.com/products/organic-backcountry-pad?goal=0_aab826b63c-9c95fad2bb-155886877&mc_cid=9c95fad2bb&mc_eid=d413d1bd61

Hmmm.


No.

[Bradders]

Goodness me, I couldn't even justify the standard big Organics when they were £300! Absolutely obscene. It'll sell though I'm sure, London climbers have got to do something to look like they know what they're doing.

[moose]

They're selling the standard Big Pads for £380 now. The Back Country looks to be the same basic pad with better straps. I like Organic gear but I'd really expect a £380 pad to already have really good straps!

[tomtom]

Yes it’s the one with the fancy back pack carrying ‘mechanism’.

It’s still basically 2-3 layers of foam inside some fabric/cordura. I can self justify spending a bit on the snap ones as there’s a bit more going on inside the cover.. though they’re nearly as expensive now.

But hey - with our new oven ready chlorinated US trade deal - I’m sure the price will come tumbling down!!

[jwi]

I am surprised there is not more differentiation among bouldering pads. Last time I was looking there were no really low-cost pads, and then most pads where basically indistinguishable with about the same price and features, just different logos. No companies offered anything beyond competing on price. If one brand manage to position themselves as better/higher quality/more expensive than other brands I think they will make a killing.

[36chambers]

They're selling the standard Big Pads for £380 now. The Back Country looks to be the same basic pad with better straps. I like Organic gear but I'd really expect a £380 pad to already have really good straps!

They don't seem to have any Backcountry pads on the official Organic website at the moment, but the Big Pads are going for $319, which is currently £249.28 according to google. If only they made Organic pads in the UK too.

[tomtom]

I think there’s quite a bit of differentiation - alpkit, Simond (their large one looks alright) and Psywhatever all do budget pads. Then you’ve good Moon, Ocun and cheaper Snap and Organic - Then the ££300+ pads from Snap and Organic...

You pay more for features eg air pads and better harness/funky pockets/flaps - and stronger fabric/better foam I guess...

[turnipturned]

{Ignoring the price and the fact I am lucky enough to own one}

The backcountry pad is by far the best pad carrying system going. It’s flipping great for long walk ins, distributes weight on your waist and shoulder and is really comfy.

[Yossarian]

I bought a Snap Stamina a few weeks ago to augment our Organic Big pad. The Snap feels very flimsy in comparison - I don’t know much about the older ones, but the current fabric they’re using is thin and doesn’t appear to be very durable. I’m not particularly optimistic about its lifespan.

We were going to get a Backcountry but after a prolonged dispute with Bananafingers (who took my money and they failed to either communicate or deliver anything) we ended up getting the Big pad elsewhere. The back system is pretty decent, but I imagine with a load of stuff strapped on the Backcountry would be substantially more comfortable.

[tomtom]

I’d love a Backcountry. Especially if I were sponsored 😃

Hint hint 😂

[Coops_13]

They're selling the standard Big Pads for £380 now. The Back Country looks to be the same basic pad with better straps. I like Organic gear but I'd really expect a £380 pad to already have really good straps!

They don't seem to have any Backcountry pads on the official Organic website at the moment, but the Big Pads are going for $319, which is currently £249.28 according to google. If only they made Organic pads in the UK too.

[SA Chris]

We were going to get a Backcountry but after a prolonged dispute with Bananafingers (who took my money and they failed to either communicate or deliver anything) we ended up getting the Big pad elsewhere.

(cough) London Climber comment (cough)

[Yossarian]

We were going to get a Backcountry but after a prolonged dispute with Bananafingers (who took my money and they failed to either communicate or deliver anything) we ended up getting the Big pad elsewhere.

(cough) London Climber comment (cough)

In what sense? They were shockingly bad - I finally got my money back through Paypal nearly two months later.

[SA Chris]

See Bradder's comment above. I'm just pulling your pisser.

[Yossarian]

TBH I’m still holding out for Virgil Abloh releasing an Off-White bouldering pad collection. I’d be well up for a £10k mat with black and white stripes and “BOULDERING MAT” written on the side in Helvetica bold.

[SA Chris]

Unless it's woven with silver strands to aid recovery while I'm standing on it, it won't work for me.

[cheque]

If only they made Organic pads in the UK too.

This is the most pertinent comment here- the price in the US doesn’t seem excessive for what’s obviously an ideal product for those who need to carry lots of pads a long way (I was expecting an LV chalkbag situation when I clicked the link) it’s just had to be imported because there’s no-one making an equivalent here. I’m out of touch with bouldering mats but I think Moon are the British manufacturer with the best straps (?) and theirs don’t look anything like as good as those on this pad.

[Anti]

So, I'll put my hands up and say I own a Psychi pad. It ended up costing me £70 and is pretty decent, as a second pad to my Ocun it absolutely does a fine job. I've fallen on it from reasonable heights and it's okay. I've fallen on the huge Snap pads and they're fine too. I've fallen on Organic pads and surprisingly, they too are fine.

What's interesting to me here though is while I baulk at the idea of an expensive pad in theory - why not? I mean, we're in the middle of an attempt at a social revolution of sorts. If everyone were paid fairly for their goods and efforts, all the way down the supply chain, then things are going to cost more. The theory of good quality low cost stuff is great to me as a consumer in the "west" but if it's cheaper at the consumer end then someone is losing out in the chain somewhere and I guarantee it isn't the supplier..

[Oldmanmatt]

I don’t make pads.

But I do “make” matting for my bouldering gym.

That is, since the first installation (by Ceetex) eight years ago, I have been sourcing materials and constructing all the improvements or new matting. I have spent many hours sat at my sewing machine or breathing in glue fumes.

The raw materials, especially foam, are really very expensive, long before you add labour.

Take a look for yourselves. This is a reliable foam supplier, enter in your ideal dimensions (remember you’ll want dual density, firm upper and medium base, probably split around 30:70 of total thickness).
The ultra firm recon, breaks down fairly quickly though and is heavy. You might want a PE foam instead and thats more expensive/specialised.

http://www.thefoamshop.co.uk/

And we haven’t looked at fabrics yet, or strap systems.

My little Singer semi-industrial machine, costs upwards of £800 and it wouldn’t be a strong enough machine for any sort of prolonged use.

I suspect, pads are reasonably priced, generally and I can see why these (being imported) end up in that price bracket.

I will, definitely, make my own pad, one day. I found a few military, modular, load carrying systems (advanced versions of the old “Webbing” stuff of my vintage) and have some sketches of what I want to do. Essentially a larger, trifold, thicker (3 layer, with a very soft base to deform into uneven ground) and MOLLE style attachments.
Just awaiting time, money, enthusiasm and a long enough period of bad weather.

[Bradders]

If only they made Organic pads in the UK too.

This is the most pertinent comment here- the price in the US doesn’t seem excessive for what’s obviously an ideal product for those who need to carry lots of pads a long way (I was expecting an LV chalkbag situation when I clicked the link) it’s just had to be imported because there’s no-one making an equivalent here. I’m out of touch with bouldering mats but I think Moon are the British manufacturer with the best straps (?) and theirs don’t look anything like as good as those on this pad.

This could be rubbish / hearsay / my bad memory but I'm sure I was told a while ago that the outer sections of Organic pads are imported into the UK whilst the foam is "home-grown" so to speak. Thus the carbon impact is theoretically lower.

I think there are some good competitors but agree all of them tend to fall down in one area or another versus Organics.

Overall though it seems to me to be a case of (hand-made high quality outer + import cost + outsourced foam) x Instagram popularity = a very expensive product in the UK.

If one brand manage to position themselves as better/higher quality/more expensive than other brands I think they will make a killing.

This is exactly what Organic have done.

What's interesting to me here though is while I baulk at the idea of an expensive pad in theory - why not? I mean, we're in the middle of an attempt at a social revolution of sorts. If everyone were paid fairly for their goods and efforts, all the way down the supply chain, then things are going to cost more. The theory of good quality low cost stuff is great to me as a consumer in the "west" but if it's cheaper at the consumer end then someone is losing out in the chain somewhere and I guarantee it isn't the supplier..

Social revolution? Really? Am I supposed to be concerned about the honest, simple, hard-working indigenous peoples of....America now? Where are the tiny bubbles and imperfections?!

Seriously though, how is an individual consumer supposed to judge whether everyone in a supply chain is being compensated fairly? Especially for a complex product. The only reasonable way is via price, and one product/brand being vastly more expensive than all of the competition actually doesn't often equal a truly fair distribution of profits in our current system. More often it equals a small group or individual making a lot of money (to be clear, I've no idea if this is the case for Organic and I don't mean to insinuate that it is).

[teestub]

I’m out of touch with bouldering mats but I think Moon are the British manufacturer with the best straps (?) and theirs don’t look anything like as good as those on this pad.

Obvs a British company but I’d be surprised if their pads are actually made here.

I’ve always liked the fact that Organic started in a town with a declining textiles manufacturing sector and tapped into that skill set. Not dissimilar to Hiut denim in Wales.

Also think with things that are going to last you several years it’s worth considering cost per use rather than initial layout. If that carry system is going to provide a small improvement in comfort every time you go to a crag with a long walk in then that’s going to add up to a lot of ‘value’ quite quickly.

[Yossarian]

Goodness me, I couldn't even justify the standard big Organics when they were £300! Absolutely obscene. It'll sell though I'm sure, London climbers have got to do something to look like they know what they're doing.

Quite up for launching this...

[tomtom]

Surprised that Organic stuff their pads with different foam here...

Maybe thats why mine are a bit soggy now!

[andy popp]

If one brand manage to position themselves as better/higher quality/more expensive than other brands I think they will make a killing.

This is exactly what Organic have done.

My thoughts exactly.

There's a very good video somewhere setting out Organic's approach to business - I couldn't find it just now but will look again.

In the US at least they're able to stay pretty close to their customers, helped by the custom design model. When I left the US I couldn't justify shipping my pad to a country with no climbing. I wrote to the founder Josh asking if there was any way I could donate it to someone deserving through them. By the time I heard back a few days later I'd actually found a young climber to give it to through a friend of friend. But in response Josh offered to sort me out with a pad any time I'm back in the PA. It's that kind of closeness and attention to customers that builds loyalty.

[SA Chris]

Seriously though, how is an individual consumer supposed to judge whether everyone in a supply chain is being compensated fairly? Especially for a complex product.

https://alpkit.com/pages/b-corp ?

[duncan]

Quite up for launching this...

I think you’ve under-priced it!

[Sasquatch]

Unfortunately, Organic is no longer making the backcountry.  I think it was just not selling.  It is hands down the best for a big load carry for any distance.   

And second the idea that Organic is a very hands on company w a great personal touch.  I've always had amazing experiences with them and they've been super up front and honest with me every time. 

[Durbs]

I can't remember the name of them now - what was the air-cushioned mega pad from the late 90's (?) which was serious money but arguably worth it as they actually did something different?

It was kind-of inflatable... I seem to remember that was over £400 back in the day.

[nai]

Ronin Airpad.

Didn't a group on here club together and import them?

[Durbs]

That's them -  £295 back in 2009, so I was only wrong twice...

You can still get them:
https://www.flashed.com/shop/product/ronin/
$300

edit:
They do have a more expensive one which has very similar straps to the Organic
https://www.flashed.com/shop/product/hueco-boulder-pad/
$340.00

[Johnny Brown]

I can't remember the name of them now - what was the air-cushioned mega pad from the late 90's (?) which was serious money but arguably worth it as they actually did something different?

It was kind-of inflatable... I seem to remember that was over £400 back in the day.

The Ronin was just a standard pad with a fancy filling. There was also an actual inflatable pad, twice the area and thickness of most pads. Farrar had one, I fell on it a few times, a bit bouncy for my taste but amazing to base a standard pad stack on.

[tomtom]

Looking at their website, Flashed do have quite a neat feature where you can get any picture you like printed on the face of your mat!

[Durbs]

Looking at their website, Flashed do have quite a neat feature where you can get any picture you like printed on the face of your mat!

And if this isn't the ideal opportunity to turn every session into "the floor is lava" then someone's doing something wrong.