[Anti]

Speaking of Beta chalk, I was over in V12 t'other day looking to restock, and was told that they no longer make it anymore. This was devastating news to me.

However, there was a suspiciously similar chalk block in their place called '8C+' (take that 8b+). It turns out this pretender is actually identical, and I get the impression is just a rebrand of Beta. It felt basically identical to me: a dense block that threatens to drive a solid shard of chalk into your hand when you break it up.

Does anyone have any solid info on this?

So, this is exactly why I started the thread, from a visit to V12 on Saturday... The 8b+ chalk sucks if you like the Beta, nothing like it. However I ordered some from the Gymnasium website posted earlier, so hopefully I don't have to wait too long!

  well that serves me right for not checking the thread starter! Apologies.

That's interesting, I didn't find that the 8C+ stuff (which is what I presume you meant, unless you downgraded yours) was any different really. You have given me adequate scope to start blaming inferior chalk for my shoddy performance though, many thanks!

Oh, I didn't even notice it said 8C+, I assumed it was the brand 8B+ who already make chalk bags and stuff. That's strange. It beaks up into a much finer powder I've found, it's a lot softer and not as "gritty" as the Beta stuff. I've used it for a couple of sessions now and really feel it doesn't last as long, but now am concerned maybe it's just me.

[sdm]

My suspicion is that it is all in the grind. The solid beta block stuff once whizzed in the coffee grinder is like nothing else I have used - very soft and fluffy, with massive increase in volume (fill power). Compared to the unprocessed block it is almost literally like chalk and cheese.

I think my girlfriend would go mental if i used the coffee grinder for chalk. Unless you have an old one for this purpose/ a food processor/ smoothie maker or something?

I just use one of the cheap blade grinder/choppers which are about £15 quid. It got relegated for chalk use after we got a burr grinder. It is quiet convenient as the capacity is almost exactly perfect for a day’s climbing. It would only take a quick wipe with a cloth to use it for coffee again.

A blade grinder has no business being used for coffee so it could be worth experimenting if you've got one sat around unused.

I wouldn't go near a burr grinder with chalk though, I can't see coffee oils helping your climbing or chalk helping your coffee.

Potentially not as silly an idea as it sounds. Not the grinding, but the smelly additives. When I used to race bicycles the ritual of putting on embro pre warm up was a main part of the routine, the smell of clove oil and decongestants while sat in a nervy bunch of cyclists waiting to start the race really got me amped up and was part of my mental process. Even now, the smell of embro / clove oil / olbas oil stuff seems like it switched my brain into go mode. I've experimented with just rubbing in onto myself randoml before heading out climbing and it works, but smelly chalk might be a thing... Except ground cloves in my chalk sounds like it might just suffocate me.

I wonder if the numbing properties of cloves could be useful on particularly sharp rock?

[petejh]

I just use one of the cheap blade grinder/choppers which are about £15 quid. It got relegated for chalk use after we got a burr grinder. It is quiet convenient as the capacity is almost exactly perfect for a day’s climbing. It would only take a quick wipe with a cloth to use it for coffee again.

If you listen to the gods of self-facilitation I think you'll find that grinder excessively burns the chalk and is detrimental to the taste. Or something. 

[cheque]

I have dry skin, don’t use lots of chalk, have never been much of a small/ marginal hold specialist (certainly not in the last couple of years) and consequently can’t really tell the difference between most brands of chalk but I do have a few things to add-

Metolius make two different types of chalk, Metolius Super Chalk and Metolius Climbing Chalk. The latter comes in blocks and says “100% Magnesium Carbonate” on the actual packaging. Not sure why it currently says the same for Super Chalk on their website but, as other websites say, it absolutely has some sort of added ingredient because it fucks up my skin almost immediately. Their block stuff is fine.

I got a Wild Country chalkbag a few months ago and it came in a plastic dry bag that’s intended to keep your powder dry.

Whether Friction Labs’ product is special or not, their marketing is pretty distasteful, especially the pyramid-selling ambassador type shit. Pretty obvious that they’ve looked at the climbing world as a growing market that no one was being absolute cunts in exploiting yet and found chalk to be the best thing to do that with. You can picture their presentation to potential investors showing how much people shell out for Evian etc. despite having perfectly good tap water.

Shouldn’t be that tough to do a   blind test on chalk types surely? Get some people at the Secret Garden on a humid August day using a selection of different chalk types, some of which they think is magic expensive chalk and some they think is brand X, some of them are being told the truth, some aren’t, some are being given the same stuff each time etc. I’d love to read the results of that.

[mrjonathanr]

Pound for pound (sterling), which would be a better investment? 4 big bags of Gorilla Grip or Beastmaker?

[SA Chris]

Depends if you have a Beastmaker already or not.

[nai]

Get some people at the Secret Garden on a humid August day using a selection of different chalk types

Double that up with a midge repellent test.

[Ally Smith]

Not the grinding, but the smelly additives. When I used to race bicycles the ritual of putting on embro pre warm up was a main part of the routine, the smell of clove oil and decongestants while sat in a nervy bunch of cyclists waiting to start the race really got me amped up and was part of my mental process. Even now, the smell of embro / clove oil / olbas oil stuff seems like it switched my brain into go mode. I've experimented with just rubbing in onto myself randomly before heading out climbing and it works, but smelly chalk might be a thing...

Ha! Evokes some strong memories of my short dabble with 10m TT as a youth

[Coops_13]

I have a mate that used to get his chalk shipped from Germany in 10kg batches, he used to call it "Champagne Chalk" - no idea of it's real name... I hated that stuff, it was the finest (most fine) chalk I have ever touched and you couldn't tell whether you'd hit chalk if you blindly put your hand in a bag. I thought it felt like talcum powder or flour (and suspected it wasn't actually chalk). He claimed on the box it actually said "doesn't contain talcum powder" 

[mrjonathanr]

Depends if you have a Beastmaker already or not.

I have heard they are great for crushing chalk to a fine powder. Friction Labs use the 2000 for Unicorn Puff and the 1000 for Gorilla Gunk. Apparently.

Unfortunately my campus rung isn't very good for this, so I'll have to train instead.

[Coops_13]

I have a mate that used to get his chalk shipped from Germany in 10kg batches, he used to call it "Champagne Chalk" - no idea of it's real name... I hated that stuff, it was the finest (most fine) chalk I have ever touched and you couldn't tell whether you'd hit chalk if you blindly put your hand in a bag. I thought it felt like talcum powder or flour (and suspected it wasn't actually chalk). He claimed on the box it actually said "doesn't contain talcum powder" 

I asked him - this is the stuff:
https://www.dein-klettershop.de/klettern/magnesia-chalk-chalkbags/magnesia-chalk/

[Will Hunt]

It's frustrating that there's no literature.
Every year there's a slew of horse shit questionnaires to fill in from Masters students about your motivation for coimbing or whether you like hexes or whatever. Meanwhile mass spectrometers lie idle.

[wasbeen]

It's frustrating that there's no literature.
Every year there's a slew of horse shit questionnaires to fill in from Masters students about your motivation for coimbing or whether you like hexes or whatever. Meanwhile mass spectrometers lie idle.

Just found this "paper". I can't find it on Google Scholar so very much doubt it is peer reviewed but hey ho:

https://mattfordengineering.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/lab06.pdf

Which gives us this tantalising extract:

"Other than magnesium carbonate, trace amounts of silicon were uncovered in the Super Chalk sample. This may be a clue to the supposed drying agent. Silica gel (SiO2) is commonly used as a commercial desiccant for preservation and protection of moisture sensitive products."

However, at less than 1% it is difficult to imagine that the silica gel has a significant effect.

Probably of more significance is that "Bison Chalk" was 20% calcium carbonate despite claiming to be 100% magnesium carbonate (the equivalent of the horse meat in the Ikea meat balls). The Bison Chalk was also found to have 60% more trapped water than the Metoulius chalk.

[Fiend]

Mmmmmmm horse balls.


FWIW the 8b+ chalk I was referring to was some proper dope underground old skool shit I got from South Africa back in 2005, came in little foil sachets and was crunchy AF. Dunno if it's the same as the new stuff and I've probably got the name wrong but I'm not some grade-obsessed dick anyway. Just chalk-obsessed.

[webbo]

It was a lot easier when you nipped into Boots for a box or two of Light Magnesium powder.

[petejh]

Anyway all this talk of chalk is just looking at the treatment whilst ignoring the cure.

According to the interbox, excessive activity of the sweat glands can be caused by:
diabetes
menopause/hot flashes
low blood sugar
overactive thyroid
heart attack
nervous system problems
infections

And can be cured by:

Wiping a solution paste of baking soda on your hands as an effective antiperspirant.
Drinking cider vinegar to balance ph levels.
Eating sage leaves.
Not living in Scotland.

[dunnyg]

Are sage leaves best fresh or dried? What sort of size are people cutting them up to, or are people just using the tablets these days?

TIA

[slab_happy]

I can't see coffee oils helping your climbing

I was going to say that it's amazing that no-one's tried selling caffeinated chalk as a gimmick yet.

But then I Googled and it has in fact been tried (Endurochalk -- but their website has bitten the dust, so evidently the gimmick didn't work as well as I cynically thought it might).

[Anti]

Alpecin say the caffeine in their shampoo stimulates hair follicles, I wonder if caffeine either a) stimulates finger hair... so, like a fly? That's got to be beneficial. Or b) stimulates the sweat glands. Then there's c) fuck all.

[Fultonius]

Shouldn’t be that tough to do a   blind test on chalk types surely? Get some people at the Secret Garden on a humid August day using a selection of different chalk types, some of which they think is magic expensive chalk and some they think is brand X, some of them are being told the truth, some aren’t, some are being given the same stuff each time etc. I’d love to read the results of that.

https://www.99boulders.com/best-climbing-chalk

[jwi]

Interesting but strange test. How can it be a negative that the chalk dries out the skin? That is exactly the point of applying chalk to the hands in sports!

[tomtom]

That study is a nice try Fultonious. Good link.

I’d like to see something like that - with say 20-50 climbers involved. But over a month or so - with swapping the labels on the bags every month or so (to get rid of - oh I like bag A syndrome etc..). It was also only on plastic - and if diff chalk made any real difference I’d expect them to be difftetebt in different humidities and different rock types.

Personally - I’ve never ever felt one type of chalk makes any difference. Even Dolly’s secret bag of Russian chalk $$$ he had last year...

But - like homeopathy and acupuncture (according to the science..) that actually do nothing - if it makes you think you’re climbing harder - or that bag of secret chalk boosts your confidence so you send your project etc.. then I guess it’s working! And of course those folk at friction labs are chuckling away at their 500% markup 😛

[wasbeen]

In some ways, I am wary about being too hard on Friction Labs even if they are selling a placebo.

They seem to re-invest a significant proportion in advertising and sponsoring to maintain the myth (and as a byproduct support the climbing industry). If you believe that it works it will probably work. Even if you don't believe it will work it will probably still work (a placebo can still work even if you know they are a placebo).

By increasing the value of chalk. Then the ritual surround it also increases in value. The brushing and studying of the holds, the application of the chalk, the contemplation of the interaction of the hand with the hold etc.

In summary... Some people prefer to pay more.

I guess the issue is whether by believing in the power of Friction Labs, you lose sight of what really makes a difference analogous to people taking homeopathy treatments in place of proven conventional medicine.

[mrjonathanr]

In some ways, I am wary about being too hard on Friction Labs even if they are selling a placebo.
If you believe that it works it will probably work. Even if you don't believe it will work it will probably still work (a placebo can still work even if you know they are a placebo).

A placebo is ingested. How is an external condition - the coefficient of friction- altered purely by the power of the mind?

[cheque]

It goes on so nice; it’s like butter

 

The company takes traditional magnesium carbonate and mixes it with the essential oils of clove, eucalyptus, cinnamon, rosemary, and lemon, along with a dash of epsom salts. The result is a chalk that Primo says is both antibacterial and conditioning, all while providing friction.

 

Interesting that the Bison chalk that’s apparently got loads of other stuff in it isn’t the worst in that test.