[scragrock]

The question of Scottish areas being developed or Not is an interesting one. I think it treads the same path as basic conservation or environmental impact.

It does indeed. But let's not forget that most of the highlands has been extensively managed for a very long time (particularly in terms of sheep farming, shooting and forestry). We've already made an enormous environmental impact, the question is how we might move forwards. Hopefully when people visit these stunning areas they are impressed enough to think twice about leaving litter/fingertape/tick marks etc. But maybe I'm overly optimistic...
[/quote]

Agreed about the historic management and i also hope your optimism is rewarded.

My fellow developer has a differing view re unspoilt/well used-  Stu reckons that if you make the effort to find, clean and climb new lines in new areas its up to other people to find them, as he says "The Rocks always been there, i don't own it, get off your arse and look for it".
For him i think its less about the environmental impact and more about the pioneering spirit.

[GazM]

Interesting discussion. I'd agree with all that writing up and sharing new developments is a good thing. Ive loved seeing a few places that I've scrubbed and shared starting to get attention by others. I've also come across it the other way when I've done something I thought was new only to be told it was done before but no one could be bothered writing it up. That somehow cheapened my experience.

The bit that I find annoying is not having some sort of common place in which to share this info. Once there was Scottish Climbs and John Watson's blog but now it's scattered all over the internet and hard to keep track of. Putting stuff on UKC does kind of work, but it somehow feels like a very soulless way of sharing info, with little room for putting any context to a place and the developments there. Perhaps I'm just a hippie.

I'm certainly not volunteering myself to set up some kind of scottish bouldering wiki, but if anyone else did I'd be happy to be involved in moderating for certain areas.

As for negative impacts from too many climbers, that's a tricky one. It's certainly the case that the honeypots are starting to show wear and tear. But I think the genie is out of the bottle. The major roadside venues have mostly been developed and written up. Most of the new stuff that's being developed or is yet to be developed is a bit more 'niche' (i.e. long approaches) and will only ever attract a small number of dedicated boulderers.

[Bonjoy]

My fellow developer has a differing view re unspoilt/well used-  Stu reckons that if you make the effort to find, clean and climb new lines in new areas its up to other people to find them, as he says "The Rocks always been there, i don't own it, get off your arse and look for it".
For him i think its less about the environmental impact and more about the pioneering spirit.

This is fine, so long he doesn't consider what he's doing as 'development' and he doesn't expect to name or claim things. Out of interest, what does he do when people find and climb these lines? Does he retro-claim? Is this one problem at a time, as and when they are reclimbed, or does he reveal whole areas when one problem is rediscovered?

[Bonjoy]

As for negative impacts from too many climbers, that's a tricky one. It's certainly the case that the honeypots are starting to show wear and tear. But I think the genie is out of the bottle. The major roadside venues have mostly been developed and written up. Most of the new stuff that's being developed or is yet to be developed is a bit more 'niche' (i.e. long approaches) and will only ever attract a small number of dedicated boulderers.

From long experience developing in a very busy and convenient area I'd say two things:
Never underestimate how lazy and unimaginative most climbers are.
Convenience will always trump all other merits.

No matter how good your new area is, if it isn't convenient it will never be over popular. You'll be lucky to get enough traffic to keep  a few problems clean and paths navigable. You might get a flurry of activity when new stuff pops up on social media, or in a new guide. In the longer term it's all about the convenience.

[GazM]

Yeah, that was my point. Guess it's even more relevant up here in the Highlands where popular roadside venues must only get a fraction of the visitors that areas further south must get.

It's partly this that's made me slow to write up some of my own new stuff, because in all honesty I can't imagine anyone else ever making the effort to find, re-clean and climb.

EDIT: That's not say that I won't write it up, just that I know there's no hurry!

[Bonjoy]

I always appreciate the remote areas being written up. We go on holiday to Scotland a lot and where we go has often got more to do with other activities than climbing, so it's nice to know of anything available in the area, if it's fairly remote and low convenience.

[Fultonius]

I've thrown in the towel with Facebook, and UKC doesn't provide the best technology to update use-generated content.

In this day and age, is there not a simple database driven user-uploadable topo program?

Any smart phone now has the ability to edit a photo with a vector line on a new layer. How hard could it be to upload a photo, draw a line, pin it on a google maps location, add some description (name, grade, any rules etc.) and link that to the drawn line. If there's an existing photo, click "add new problem", draw line, add details.

Facebook is a massive pile of shite but has taken over our data, and killed a lot of forums. Instabang is just as bad. We need easy to use, app based, user-generated topos.

Any takers?

[Bradders]

In this day and age, is there not a simple database driven user-uploadable topo program?

Any smart phone now has the ability to edit a photo with a vector line on a new layer. How hard could it be to upload a photo, draw a line, pin it on a google maps location, add some description (name, grade, any rules etc.) and link that to the drawn line. If there's an existing photo, click "add new problem", draw line, add details.

Facebook is a massive pile of shite but has taken over our data, and killed a lot of forums. Instabang is just as bad. We need easy to use, app based, user-generated topos.

Any takers?

This is pretty much what 27 Crags does I think.

[scragrock]

Interesting discussion. I'd agree with all that writing up and sharing new developments is a good thing. Ive loved seeing a few places that I've scrubbed and shared starting to get attention by others. I've also come across it the other way when I've done something I thought was new only to be told it was done before but no one could be bothered writing it up. That somehow cheapened my experience.

The bit that I find annoying is not having some sort of common place in which to share this info. Once there was Scottish Climbs and John Watson's blog but now it's scattered all over the internet and hard to keep track of. Putting stuff on UKC does kind of work, but it somehow feels like a very soulless way of sharing info, with little room for putting any context to a place and the developments there. Perhaps I'm just a hippie.

I'm certainly not volunteering myself to set up some kind of scottish bouldering wiki, but if anyone else did I'd be happy to be involved in moderating for certain areas.

As for negative impacts from too many climbers, that's a tricky one. It's certainly the case that the honeypots are starting to show wear and tear. But I think the genie is out of the bottle. The major roadside venues have mostly been developed and written up. Most of the new stuff that's being developed or is yet to be developed is a bit more 'niche' (i.e. long approaches) and will only ever attract a small number of dedicated boulderers.

Sorry Gaz if i have ever been responsible for any disappointment re Not writing things up.
Couldn't agree more about having an up to date website for the Highlands/Scotland, i looked into doing a version of Bleau.info up here but i don't have the cash,time or skill to pull it off but like you i would be more than happy to volunteer my time to moderate for my random NW areas and Strathnairn.

[scragrock]

My fellow developer has a differing view re unspoilt/well used-  Stu reckons that if you make the effort to find, clean and climb new lines in new areas its up to other people to find them, as he says "The Rocks always been there, i don't own it, get off your arse and look for it".
For him i think its less about the environmental impact and more about the pioneering spirit.

This is fine, so long he doesn't consider what he's doing as 'development' and he doesn't expect to name or claim things. Out of interest, what does he do when people find and climb these lines? Does he retro-claim? Is this one problem at a time, as and when they are reclimbed, or does he reveal whole areas when one problem is rediscovered?

Nah Stu wouldn't write anything up{i do that} and i would say he sees himself as exploratory boulderer rather than a developer. He does name problems but that's mainly so we can discuss them. I doubt he would retro claim anything, it's Not happened up to now but you would have to ask him how he would deal with it.

[GazM]

Sorry Gaz if i have ever been responsible for any disappointment re Not writing things up.

Ha! I wasn't writing that with you in mind, so don't worry! I think there were a few things out the back at Inchbae that you'd done before, but I think I knew that before I actually climbed them.

[andy_e]

I did wonder about starting a thread called "Scottish Hings" where all the new problems are collated/linked to threads on here/instagram/other bits of random reporting. Wouldn't be too hard to keep up to date and could be a good resource to keep track of new problems, like Max's new stuff on the coast round here.

[Fultonius]

In this day and age, is there not a simple database driven user-uploadable topo program?

Any smart phone now has the ability to edit a photo with a vector line on a new layer. How hard could it be to upload a photo, draw a line, pin it on a google maps location, add some description (name, grade, any rules etc.) and link that to the drawn line. If there's an existing photo, click "add new problem", draw line, add details.

Facebook is a massive pile of shite but has taken over our data, and killed a lot of forums. Instabang is just as bad. We need easy to use, app based, user-generated topos.

Any takers?

This is pretty much what 27 Crags does I think.

Ah right, never seen the topos on that as I think you need to pay to get the basic ones. Something along those lines I guess.

What kickback do you get on 27Crags for uploading content?  I feel that user generated content should give some form of credit for the monthly app dues...

[Fultonius]

Just signed up to 27 Crags to see what the craic is.

[SA Chris]

Scragrock, there's some great bouldering on the left side of Polin Beach at low tide if you've never climbed on it, might need a bit of a barnacle scrub, but nice for a quick hit.

Oh thanks Chris, I will certainly check it out.
Is there a Topo anywhere or is it just a go/climb/enjoy kind of thing?

Go climb, enjoy, nothing hard just a few moves and drop off onto perfect white sand. IIRC (it was about 11 years ago) there may have been some harder looking stuff at the seaward end, but would need a proper clean up. If you think it's worthy of writing up, I'm not bothered about claiming anything.

[SA Chris]

I'm certainly not volunteering myself to set up some kind of scottish bouldering wiki, but if anyone else did I'd be happy to be involved in moderating for certain areas.

https://ukbouldering.fandom.com/wiki/Scotland Is this still editable? I started transferring from Clova from Scottish Climbs when that went TU, but never finalised it.

[gardinrm]

I've just come across the Boulder Scotland site:
https://sites.google.com/site/boulderscotland/home

It's pretty good. Could definitely be added to.

[scragrock]

I've just come across the Boulder Scotland site:
https://sites.google.com/site/boulderscotland/home

It's pretty good. Could definitely be added to.

Yeah I thought that too Robbie
Might be worth contacting John re getting a better online guide(something we can all add too). No point in reinventing the wheel on this.

[gardinrm]

I think he'd be quite keen. It might help him write a more comprehensive guide in the future...

[SA Chris]

Scragrock, there's some great bouldering on the left side of Polin Beach at low tide if you've never climbed on it, might need a bit of a barnacle scrub, but nice for a quick hit.

Oh thanks Chris, I will certainly check it out.
Is there a Topo anywhere or is it just a go/climb/enjoy kind of thing?

Go climb, enjoy, nothing hard just a few moves and drop off onto perfect white sand. IIRC (it was about 11 years ago) there may have been some harder looking stuff at the seaward end, but would need a proper clean up. If you think it's worthy of writing up, I'm not bothered about claiming anything.

I remember I sent a pic to John Watson (i've long since lost it) and he stuck it in his blog, did you find this bit?

https://www.stonecountrypress.co.uk/2009/07/armchair-sheigra.html

[scragrock]

Scragrock, there's some great bouldering on the left side of Polin Beach at low tide if you've never climbed on it, might need a bit of a barnacle scrub, but nice for a quick hit.

Oh thanks Chris, I will certainly check it out.
Is there a Topo anywhere or is it just a go/climb/enjoy kind of thing?

Go climb, enjoy, nothing hard just a few moves and drop off onto perfect white sand. IIRC (it was about 11 years ago) there may have been some harder looking stuff at the seaward end, but would need a proper clean up. If you think it's worthy of writing up, I'm not bothered about claiming anything.

I remember I sent a pic to John Watson (i've long since lost it) and he stuck it in his blog, did you find this bit?

https://www.stonecountrypress.co.uk/2009/07/armchair-sheigra.html

Morning Chris
Yeah i found the short sea crag your talking about looked like quite good climbing, Unfortunately the weather was less than kind for the week we were up there. I did manage a little bit of bouldering on the smaller blocs in the cove closer to the dunes next to the burn on the same side of the beach.
Also managed a session at Droman pier {which i have developed over the years} squeezed out some repeats and a new line.
My interest was drawn to the promontory between Droman Pier and Polin Beach. 2 good slabs {maybe 5/6 lines to be cleaned and climbed and quite a high outcrop further inland that i have yet to investigate. All of these are south facing and are better approached from Droman Pier.

I hope to get back soon, I know Robbie G and chums are booked up to go in spring. 

[SA Chris]

I think I can see the slab on the satellite photo. Last time we were there (from that pic actually), we walked in to do some climbs in Polin Geo from Oldshoremore Beach. There are also some slabs set into that hillside. The rock is immaculate, but unfortunately at an easy enough angle that I could practically run up them in climbing shoes, be great for young kids though. Hopefully the ones you spotted are better.

There has been some sporadic development around Sheigra beach Campsite, but the write ups are so vague it's hard to figure out what's what.

[gardinrm]

I saw some instagram (I think) photos of someone playing in the big cave square feature to the left of Sheigra beach. But I don't know if anything has been done. I've always wondered if there was something cool there.

[GazM]

Earlier on this thread I said I was writing up some of my local new stuff and it's now up on the North West Outdoors Blog here:
http://www.northwestoutdoors.co.uk/northwestoutdoorsullapool/2020/12/12/new-bouldering-in-strathconon-and-strathgarve

There are a few more photos, videos and thoughts on local exploration on my instagram here:
http://www.instagram.com/easter_ross_choss/

Fair to say it's not going to set the world on fire, but worth knowing about if you're in the area or get rained out of the west.

[Fiend]

Good work. Lovely bit of rock for Reckoner and The Bends!