[SA Chris]

Nothing like shopping vicariously!

[sxrxg]

I really want a hardtail now...

[SA Chris]

Must admit it's got me looking, but the last time I took mine out, after being on a full suss i think I collapsed my spine.

[Paul B]

https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/ribble-ht-725/

It's worth noting that Ribble are very close to Boulder UK. I also think they (kindly) donated the Park Tool bike hooks in BUK too. I've got their road bike which I didn't buy new and they still sent me a few small parts free of charge when I emailed.

I just wish more people would buy their high end stuff so I can buy it used 

[205Chris]

If you don't need the bike straight away then my money would go on a Vitus Sentier 29 (or 27 depending upon your riding style and terrain). Best in class Marazocchi fork, good geometry, boost spacing on frame and fork, good tyres that aren't a cheap compound on 30mm wide rims, Shimano brakes with the same lever shape as the top end brakes, 12 speed SX, dropper post. Overall it seems a well sorted package

https://vitusbikes.com/products/sentier-29-vr-bike-sx-eagle-1x12

Thanks, reading a few reviews this certainly looks like the best option. Just a case of how long the wait is until they're back in stock.

[SA Chris]

New 2021 bikes should be released shortly, any joy?

[Durbs]

My only contribution is in terms of buyers remorse...
I got a new bike 3 years ago (on the Cycle to Works scheme), Cannondale Beast of the East 3.

What I've learned is:
#1 27.5+ tyres (semi fatties) are an absolute ball-ache to change and I dread getting a puncture. Tyres are also more expensive, but look very cool.

#2 I wouldn't buy a Cannondale again.
BB30 is a creaky nightmare, their over-sized headsets limit options too. My previous bike was a GT LTS 2000, officially a "vintage bike", and I never had to change a single bearing in 20+ years. I've needed 2x bottom brackets and a new headset on the Cannondale within 3 years.

Out of curiosity, for PCs, a build-your-own approach is usually better value for money, is it the same for MTBs? i.e. could you buy a frame, pick your components and get a better bike for less than a pre-built bike?

[SA Chris]

No, usually costs more, and you need quite a bit of tools and time. Unless you can pick up reasonable quality bits second hand, have the tools already and like tinkering.

[sxrxg]

There is no way you can beat the value of the direct to consumer brands and build a bike for a similar specification for the same money. The manufacturers often buy a full package from the likes of SRAM including forks, drivetrain and brakes (and sometimes wheels) at a large discount that you cannot achieve if buying aftermarket.

For example looking at the Vitus Sentier linked earlier the basic cost breakdown of parts would be:

- £300 for aluminium hardtail frame (used on-one frames for a price as the Vitus frame cannot be bought separately)
- £550 Marazocchi Bomber Z2 fork
- £130 Brake calipers and levers
- £125 wheelset
- £30 disc rotors
- £80 equivalent spec tyres
- £150 dropper post
- £250 SX Drivetrain
- £100 Handlebars, stem, grips, saddle

Total £1715 and that isn't including cables and all the other little extras. Plus you would have to take the time to fit it all together. Whilst the RRP of the bike is only £1099.99. In most cases it makes sense to just buy a bike and then change out components to create your ideal bike than build your own from scratch.

[nai]

Similar to Chris, considering upgrading after a long time

Been riding an Orange Sub 5 full sus for 19 years.  Bit nervy about going back to Hardtail after so long, l understand that modern geometry and wheels mean the bike should roll over stuff a lot easier but being 5' 6" I'm not sure about 29" wheels suiting me. I've always like a small bike I can throw around so think perhaps I should be looking at 27.5 which then makes me wonder if maybe I need suspension again too.  And I go around in circles like this.

Ride mostly local.  Like flowy, twisty singletrack. For Peak locals I'll be looking to climb stuff like Blackamoor from Strawberry Lee /Shorts Lane and descend stuff like the BW linking top of Piper House Gate to Devils Elbow and Devils Elbow itself. And Lady Cannings of course.

Budget was around £1200 but on the creep...

At first I thought this with a dropper post and perhaps a fork upgrade.

https://alpkit.com/products/sonder-transmitter-sx-eagle

But this looks better specced, 29 though:

https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/CBOOSCGX/on-one-scandal-sram-gx-mountain-bike

But for the cost of a dropper post this is then similar cost, although not as well specced

https://alpkit.com/products/sonder-cortex-nx-eagle

And finally you get to this, might be a bit OTT but looks like more than £100 worth of bike than the Cortex?
 
https://alpkit.com/products/evol-29-sx-eagle

the Vitus linked previously is out of stock.

Any thoughts on going back to hardtail after so long, 29" wheels for someone of my size and the suitabilty of these bikes for these style trails.  Obviously test riding some would be ideal but pretty tricky at the moment with places closed and lack of stock.

Cheers

[SA Chris]

I'd borrow or a hire a modern hardtail if you can for a couple of rides just to remind yourself what they are like.

[nai]

That would be a good idea. I have emailed Alpkit and asked whether it's possible but suspect it'll be April 12th when shops reopen.

[sxrxg]

Some people seem to like modern 29" bikes even if they are smaller. It is telling though that lots of manufacturers seem to now be offering sizes xsmall and small in 27.5" or mullet setup (27.5" rear wheel and 29" front) with medium and above having 29" wheels.

The other thing to consider is tyre sizes, you may find that a hardtail with 27.5" rims and 2.6" or 2.8" tyres suit your riding more than larger wheels with more normal 2.3-2.4" width tyres.

Currently though finding a bike at all is probably the most difficult task. If you want something right away you probably will have to go with whatever you can get hold of. If you can wait until the end of the year and things are back to something slightly more normal in the world i can imagine lots of lightly used bikes will be flooding the second hand market...

[Paul B]

Currently though finding a bike at all is probably the most difficult task. If you want something right away you probably will have to go with whatever you can get hold of. If you can wait until the end of the year and things are back to something slightly more normal in the world i can imagine lots of lightly used bikes will be flooding the second hand market...

I was thinking this with road bikes when winter arrived (people who'd bought in lockdown but not really used them) but it really didn't seem to happen. I finally bought one last weekend but I've been looking for quite some time (size and spec being a compounding issue as well as Canyon completely f*cking up the new Aeroad [seat post and bars] so people were hesitant to upgrade).

Nai, given you're in Sheffield, is used not an option? I know the used market is tough and sales/purchases are tricky with the T4 restrictions but you get a lot more for your money.

In terms of suspension, I hadn't ridden in years and got a FS with 120mm of travel and instantly wished I'd gone for a little more. The 27.5" wheels are right for me (similar size to you) and I really struggled for stand-over clearance on 29" offerings I looked at. Every now and again I ride either my Dad's (hard tail) or Nat's FS which both have 26" wheels and the difference is staggering.

Some people seem to like modern 29" bikes even if they are smaller. It is telling though that lots of manufacturers seem to now be offering sizes xsmall and small in 27.5" or mullet setup (27.5" rear wheel and 29" front) with medium and above having 29" wheels.

Basically this.

[Sasquatch]

Some people seem to like modern 29" bikes even if they are smaller. It is telling though that lots of manufacturers seem to now be offering sizes xsmall and small in 27.5" or mullet setup (27.5" rear wheel and 29" front) with medium and above having 29" wheels.

The other thing to consider is tyre sizes, you may find that a hardtail with 27.5" rims and 2.6" or 2.8" tyres suit your riding more than larger wheels with more normal 2.3-2.4" width tyres.

So much depends on what you're riding.  Is it chattery? if so, go with 29, is it loose? 27.5+  is it super narrow/tight?  27.5 Regardless go full suspension.  The new geometry setups with full suspension setups are so amazing.

Currently though finding a bike at all is probably the most difficult task. If you want something right away you probably will have to go with whatever you can get hold of. If you can wait until the end of the year and things are back to something slightly more normal in the world i can imagine lots of lightly used bikes will be flooding the second hand market...

That could be the case, but around here I have seen the bike use on the trails probably triple in the last year.  snow bikes in winter and mountain in summer.  Road has seen less of an increase, but it still rose quite a bit.  And they're out regularly.  I suspect many of these people will continue riding regularly.

[Ged]

I'm sure I've banged on about this before, but if you don't want to break the bank, I can't recommend boardman bikes enough. My 27.5 full sus is 8 years old now, and going strong. Halfords upgraded the original elixir brakes for free after a few months as the originals were shit, and I've more recently upgraded them again to shimanos. But other than that, so much fun to ride. I've hammered it down lift access stuff in the alps, slogged over dartmoor, and at no point have I wished I had a different bike. That was the middle range one (they always seem to do a top, middle and bottom). They do hardtail 29 ers too.

More recently I've got hold of there cyclo Cross mid range, and again its effing awesome. I bought it because a road bike on the lanes where we live feels like a death trap, and it's just outstanding for the price. Feels like a £1500 bike for £850.

[Fultonius]

Just been out today with a mate who's just bought an  Orbea (Wild FS I think), e-MTB.

I've always been a wee bit anti e-bikes.

Wow.

What fun!  We were basically doing trials sections, bombing up technical trials you'd never (or at least very unlikely) get up on on a normal bike. Flat a twisty trails also a lot of fun. Very solid and stable downhill, and very fast over stuttery roots etc. (momentum init).

Still quite fun and engaging on the twisty downhills.  I really think they can open up a new world of fun that just isn't there on a purely pedal powered bike. I'm not going to get one for a while, need to come down a lot in price before I'd feel like I could justify it.

[Paul B]

I've been thinking about a Bafang conversion for that very reason.

[nai]

Cheers all

Some people seem to like modern 29" bikes even if they are smaller. It is telling though that lots of manufacturers seem to now be offering sizes xsmall and small in 27.5" or mullet setup (27.5" rear wheel and 29" front) with medium and above having 29" wheels.

The other thing to consider is tyre sizes, you may find that a hardtail with 27.5" rims and 2.6" or 2.8" tyres suit your riding more than larger wheels with more normal 2.3-2.4" width tyres.

Interesting, good logic re the tyre sizes.
Sat on a couple of 29s today and they didn't feel too bad. Standover height was a bit neat but in term of reach and length they didn't feel crazy far out comapred to the Orange, same reach and only ~50mm longer wheelbase.

Nai, given you're in Sheffield, is used not an option? I know the used market is tough and sales/purchases are tricky with the T4 restrictions but you get a lot more for your money.

Could be, once I stop going round in circles and make a decision.

In terms of suspension, I hadn't ridden in years and got a FS with 120mm of travel and instantly wished I'd gone for a little more. The 27.5" wheels are right for me (similar size to you) and I really struggled for stand-over clearance on 29" offerings I looked at. Every now and again I ride either my Dad's (hard tail) or Nat's FS which both have 26" wheels and the difference is staggering.

Good to know, cheers

I can't recommend boardman bikes enough.

Yes, they get mentioned as very good and aside from being 29 the 8.8 looks decent, will maybe keep an eye on them comig into stock

[nai]

Just been out today with a mate who's just bought an  Orbea (Wild FS I think), e-MTB.

Wow.

I actually started out looking at ebikes after my wife bought one last year and I discovered what fun they are. Unfortunately the budget wouldn't stretch but the seed had been sown.

[SA Chris]

I really think they can open up a new world of fun that just isn't there on a purely pedal powered bike.

They came up in conversation last Saturday as we were flogging up Glen Derry with skis and boots on backpacks. Very tempting in that respect.

[tlr]

Nai, you can take Kim’s 29” carbon hardtail for a ride if you like - geometry is a few years old but it might help you make a decision. I might even come with you.

I had an interesting experience yesterday, I borrowed a mates Trek Fuel EX, fully up to date full sus trail bike to see how it compared to my older full sus XC bike. First time I’d ridden 1x, dropper post, modern ‘trail’ geo,

Long story short, I wasn’t blown away by it at all. It felt very slow uphill (backed up by Strava) and a bit ponderous in tight stuff. It was quicker down Plantation descent and down through Blacka though (backed up by Strava). Given it’s extra weight and frankly ridiculous width tyres compared with my 10.5kg, 100mm XTR equipped bike this shouldn’t be surprising. But give how evangelical reviews are about modern geometry I was disappointed.

It could climb ok thanks to the steep seat angle, just rather slowly. The gaps in the huge cassette annoyed me - cadence was never quite right, it felt like I had to ride to the bike’s speed rather than choosing the gear I wanted. And I still don’t get the necessity for a dropper post but maybe I’d get used to it.

Means I can cross ‘trail bike’ off my list anyway.

[Paul B]

Pete tried to insist I needed a dropper when I was buying but I told him otherwise as I just couldn't see the point (I'd never needed one when younger).

The first ride out around Gisburn forest I was buzzing and got my wife to drop me at the top of the nearby fell on the way home for a descent back to where we lived. Hanging right over the back I hit something which I didn't roll over, pivoted, caught 'myself' on the seat I hadn't bothered to lower from flogging over the moor and landed face first in a tree.

I've now got a brand-x dropper and think it's bloody brilliant. I went out in the deep snow we had a month or so ago and it allowed me to have the seat perfect for ascent and then firmly out of the way for the slightly dodgy descents.

[sxrxg]

I fully agree that I won't ever ride a mountain bike without a dropper again. Negligible weight penalty and so easy to get the seat out the way for the decent where you need to be able to move around on the bike.

Note that modern geometry only really works using a dropper post. With the steep seat tube angles and long reach the seat is now positioned totally different than on older bikes where you could get off the back of the seat on steeps, this isn't really possible now as the seat would end up in your chest.

Also the previous comments regarding feeling ponderous and slower in tight stuff and uphill are true for enduro/or trial bikes with enduro leanings. These are geared to winching up and then plummeting down the roughest most technical tracks where the slower steering feel will make you feel safer and therefore faster. As part of this if you like a playful bike don't be afraid to downsize to reduce reach/wheelbase as I think for a lot of average trails the geometry numbers are getting a bit out of hand.

Finally if you want to do cross country racing/endurance racing/covering massive mileages then there are still lightweight bikes with more conservative angles, reach figures and less suspension that will be considerably quicker feeling. You just need to decide what is right for what you want to ride.

[nai]

Just been out today with a mate who's just bought an  Orbea (Wild FS I think), e-MTB.

Wow.

I actually started out looking at ebikes after my wife bought one last year and I discovered what fun they are. Unfortunately the budget wouldn't stretch but the seed had been sown.

So I really did go full circle.  Had stroke of luck when I broke a shock mounting bolt and went to a shop to see if they had one. Of course they didn't but when they'd finished laughing they did show me a second hand Cube which they'd taken as a PX just 3 months after originally selling.  They claimed it needed to go and after bit of research and soul searching I decided to go for it.