[205Chris]

Help UKB hive mind.

It's years since I owned a Mountain Bike and looking around now there seems to be far too much choice what to spend your hard earned on.

What's the entry point for a decent hardtail that will stand up to a moderate level of abuse round Peak District trails?

Also what's the knowledge on 26" v 27.5" v 29". Only ever ridden 26" before.

Recommendations for bike shops in Sheffield, is JE James the way to go?

Thanks

[Paul B]

I'm not going to wade in as an expert but I bought my first MTB in years two or so ago (second hand from Yorkshire Cycling Sales on FB).

It's a Canyon Neuron AL and it's got 27.5"wheels. It's noticeably easier to me to get over objects than on Nat's 26" Trek. It's worth remembering I'm not very tall!

[tomtom]

I suspect the first question you’ll be asked is how much is the budget...

[User deactivated.]

Budget?

On a hardtail, for peak district trails I'd be inclined to suggest a 29er (perhaps I'd qualify that with you being at least 5 foot 9). A 27.5 will be more playful if you're into jumping and manualing off everything.

A fantastic hardtail that's priced very competitively is a Bird Zero as this brand is direct to market. They are a very reputable UK brand that offer lifetime transferable warranty, let you choose your spec, etc. But are definitely top end in terms of quality so may be out of budget.

I often see one of the vitus bikes recommended as a great mid prices options, I forget the model. I also see a voodoo model from Halfords of all places rated very highly for an entry level bike! Again I forget the model name but you could search for reviews, eg. "Best hardtail under X pounds."

[Catcheemonkey]

I wouldn’t be shy about embracing 29 inch wheels - with modern frame geometry the bike will feel much more capable than the 26 you’ve used before.

The only reasons not to go for a 29er in my mind are if you are shorter than average or want to use the bike for jumping or particularly twisty techy riding.

Edit: what Liam just said.

[Catcheemonkey]

I’ve got a Bird Zero 29 and can heartily recommend it too.

[SA Chris]

Agree with height, if you are big enough to need an L/XL ish size frame, but if you are on a small frame you will look like Big Ears on his bike. IMHO anyway.

https://www.mbr.co.uk/reviews/hardtail/best-hardtail-mountain-bike

[205Chris]

OK, the Bird 29 looks quite spendy. Does sub £1k get you anything decent these days.

I found the problem with 'best bikes under....' searches is the first review I clicked on listed about 10 bikes and eulogised about all of them.

[SA Chris]

Also, it might be worth holding on for a couple of months, 2021 bikes are normally released late autumn, at which point the 2020 bikes (which are usually just a different colour) still in stock will get dropped in price.

Usually the case anyway, this year it might be different, I expect so few bikes have been sold and made most may not release a new bike for 2021.

Worth waiting if you can anyway, maybe find out if you can demo a couple you have your eye on?

[teestub]

Usually the case anyway, this year it might be different, I expect so few bikes have been sold and made most may not release a new bike for 2021.

Was interested by the balance of the boom during lockdown and the lack of supply, looks like the prediction is only a 10% downturn, so hopefully should still be plenty of end of line bargains knocking about.
https://road.cc/content/news/uk-bike-sales-hit-ps1-billion-2023-274681

[galpinos]

Also, it might be worth holding on for a couple of months, 2021 bikes are normally released late autumn, at which point the 2020 bikes (which are usually just a different colour) still in stock will get dropped in price.

Usually the case anyway, this year it might be different, I expect so few bikes have been sold and made most may not release a new bike for 2021.

Worth waiting if you can anyway, maybe find out if you can demo a couple you have your eye on?

What? There's not stock left of bikes, especially if you are a standard height. My LBS look like it's been robbed, there's two lonely bikes, sitting in the racks where there's normally loads. Walk into Decathalon and Go outdoors, it's the same, not a bike to be seen. A mate buying a bike was told they could probably get it but it would cost a "£500 finders fee" (it was a high end road bike) and they couldn't guarantee the size......

[galpinos]

I have an On One Inbred, not that dissimilar to the On-One Big Bog now. Mine was a little cheaper but with better equivalent spec bits (fork, gears and brakes)

https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/CBOOBDSX/on-one-big-dog-sram-sx-mountain-bike

Steel 29er, really lovely to roll over difficulties, not exactly great in a tight spot. I'm not much cop as a MTBer so it suits me fine!

[gme]

Also, it might be worth holding on for a couple of months, 2021 bikes are normally released late autumn, at which point the 2020 bikes (which are usually just a different colour) still in stock will get dropped in price.

Usually the case anyway, this year it might be different, I expect so few bikes have been sold and made most may not release a new bike for 2021.

This couldnt be more wrong. I tried to get a new bike for my 16 year old and could not get a bike, other than the top end stuff, despite going to four shops. All of them looked like they had been robbed.

My local shop is due new stock at the end of August but already being told its going to be late. He sold more bikes in May than they would in a normal year.

[Catcheemonkey]

It is nuts at the moment. I sold a second hand MTB a couple of months ago on Facebook and in the space of 12 hours had almost 500 offers!

[SA Chris]

OK, OK, not what i thought clearly. I've not been in a bike shop this year.

[Yossarian]

There are occasionally some amazing mountain bike bargains in the bikes for sale section on here - http://lfgss.com - It’s mostly London-centric but there’s also stuff scattered around the country.

[Catcheemonkey]

There’s a new article on BikeRadar that might be of interest:

https://www.bikeradar.com/advice/buyers-guides/best-mountain-bikes-under-1000-2/

The bikes all look decent, but the full suss ones are probably a bit more hefty than you’re after.

[205Chris]

Thanks for all the replies.

The challenge seems to be finding somewhere with stock!

[dunnyg]

I dont know much about bikes, but got a calibre bossnut, which seems to do the job so far, used on trails as well as mooching offroad in the dales. The woman's version was about 200 quid cheaper and the only difference was the handlebars were 2 cm thinner (!), so me and the mrs have matching...

[sxrxg]

Thanks for all the replies.

The challenge seems to be finding somewhere with stock!

What size frame are you looking for?

[SA Chris]

The challenge seems to be finding somewhere with stock!

Maybe the flipside of my reply is to wait a few months for next years bikes to come in? You'll likely have to pay full whack but if that's OK you'll have the pick. You might have to preorder if demand is high; especially if you are an unusual size; my partner had her eye on a TREK Fuel EX 6 or something when they were coming out, apparently TREK imported something close to 500 of them into the UK every year in the L size but only 5 in XS, so she had to preorder.

[sxrxg]

Had a quick look and found a few things in stock...

https://m.bikester.co.uk/gt-bicycles-zaskar-lt-al-expert-gloss-moss-greenbritish-racing-green-1245123.html?_cid=21_1_-1_9_108_1245123_201897230296_pla&ef_id=CjwKCAjw9vn4BRBaEiwAh0muDGiQw-QgdDhaS2MhQ_ZwkngENEXW195bZIUHOcwJ8j4lguKM7gYGlxoCfDcQAvD_BwE:G:s&campaign_detail=shopping&gclid=CjwKCAjw9vn4BRBaEiwAh0muDGiQw-QgdDhaS2MhQ_ZwkngENEXW195bZIUHOcwJ8j4lguKM7gYGlxoCfDcQAvD_BwE

https://m.startfitness.co.uk/cycle/bikes/hardtail-mtb/nukeproof-scout-275-race-mountain-bike-2020-blue-npsc275rcmy20.html

https://m.bikester.co.uk/marin-pine-mountain-1-29-gloss-navy-blueyelloworange-1057382.html?_cid=21_1_-1_9_43_1057382_201897230302_pla&ef_id=CjwKCAjw9vn4BRBaEiwAh0muDHV5dc1Zcvxv8ObO3boEa6KDfA6euLW2R-qEzs5wPU4_8zPAuF8NZBoCl48QAvD_BwE:G:s&campaign_detail=shopping&gclid=CjwKCAjw9vn4BRBaEiwAh0muDHV5dc1Zcvxv8ObO3boEa6KDfA6euLW2R-qEzs5wPU4_8zPAuF8NZBoCl48QAvD_BwE

All slightly different (wheel size, Frame material, geometry) and slightly more than £1k. Gives you some options if you want something now though.

[petejh]

Check out Whyte bikes for a quality hardtail around a grand. British brand. If you can stretch to £1,500 the 900 series seems to consistently get great reviews.
The 800 series for under a grand.
They also do a 29er version.

[sxrxg]

If you don't need the bike straight away then my money would go on a Vitus Sentier 29 (or 27 depending upon your riding style and terrain). Best in class Marazocchi fork, good geometry, boost spacing on frame and fork, good tyres that aren't a cheap compound on 30mm wide rims, Shimano brakes with the same lever shape as the top end brakes, 12 speed SX, dropper post. Overall it seems a well sorted package

https://vitusbikes.com/products/sentier-29-vr-bike-sx-eagle-1x12

[sxrxg]

For a really nice upgradable steel frame then the Ribble 275 might be an option (provided you are ok with 27.5 wheels and 2.6 tyres). Fork isn't as good as some other options however this would be easily to upgrade in the future.

https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/ribble-ht-725/

[SA Chris]

Nothing like shopping vicariously!

[sxrxg]

I really want a hardtail now...

[SA Chris]

Must admit it's got me looking, but the last time I took mine out, after being on a full suss i think I collapsed my spine.

[Paul B]

https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/ribble-ht-725/

It's worth noting that Ribble are very close to Boulder UK. I also think they (kindly) donated the Park Tool bike hooks in BUK too. I've got their road bike which I didn't buy new and they still sent me a few small parts free of charge when I emailed.

I just wish more people would buy their high end stuff so I can buy it used 

[205Chris]

If you don't need the bike straight away then my money would go on a Vitus Sentier 29 (or 27 depending upon your riding style and terrain). Best in class Marazocchi fork, good geometry, boost spacing on frame and fork, good tyres that aren't a cheap compound on 30mm wide rims, Shimano brakes with the same lever shape as the top end brakes, 12 speed SX, dropper post. Overall it seems a well sorted package

https://vitusbikes.com/products/sentier-29-vr-bike-sx-eagle-1x12

Thanks, reading a few reviews this certainly looks like the best option. Just a case of how long the wait is until they're back in stock.

[SA Chris]

New 2021 bikes should be released shortly, any joy?

[Durbs]

My only contribution is in terms of buyers remorse...
I got a new bike 3 years ago (on the Cycle to Works scheme), Cannondale Beast of the East 3.

What I've learned is:
#1 27.5+ tyres (semi fatties) are an absolute ball-ache to change and I dread getting a puncture. Tyres are also more expensive, but look very cool.

#2 I wouldn't buy a Cannondale again.
BB30 is a creaky nightmare, their over-sized headsets limit options too. My previous bike was a GT LTS 2000, officially a "vintage bike", and I never had to change a single bearing in 20+ years. I've needed 2x bottom brackets and a new headset on the Cannondale within 3 years.

Out of curiosity, for PCs, a build-your-own approach is usually better value for money, is it the same for MTBs? i.e. could you buy a frame, pick your components and get a better bike for less than a pre-built bike?

[SA Chris]

No, usually costs more, and you need quite a bit of tools and time. Unless you can pick up reasonable quality bits second hand, have the tools already and like tinkering.

[sxrxg]

There is no way you can beat the value of the direct to consumer brands and build a bike for a similar specification for the same money. The manufacturers often buy a full package from the likes of SRAM including forks, drivetrain and brakes (and sometimes wheels) at a large discount that you cannot achieve if buying aftermarket.

For example looking at the Vitus Sentier linked earlier the basic cost breakdown of parts would be:

- £300 for aluminium hardtail frame (used on-one frames for a price as the Vitus frame cannot be bought separately)
- £550 Marazocchi Bomber Z2 fork
- £130 Brake calipers and levers
- £125 wheelset
- £30 disc rotors
- £80 equivalent spec tyres
- £150 dropper post
- £250 SX Drivetrain
- £100 Handlebars, stem, grips, saddle

Total £1715 and that isn't including cables and all the other little extras. Plus you would have to take the time to fit it all together. Whilst the RRP of the bike is only £1099.99. In most cases it makes sense to just buy a bike and then change out components to create your ideal bike than build your own from scratch.

[nai]

Similar to Chris, considering upgrading after a long time

Been riding an Orange Sub 5 full sus for 19 years.  Bit nervy about going back to Hardtail after so long, l understand that modern geometry and wheels mean the bike should roll over stuff a lot easier but being 5' 6" I'm not sure about 29" wheels suiting me. I've always like a small bike I can throw around so think perhaps I should be looking at 27.5 which then makes me wonder if maybe I need suspension again too.  And I go around in circles like this.

Ride mostly local.  Like flowy, twisty singletrack. For Peak locals I'll be looking to climb stuff like Blackamoor from Strawberry Lee /Shorts Lane and descend stuff like the BW linking top of Piper House Gate to Devils Elbow and Devils Elbow itself. And Lady Cannings of course.

Budget was around £1200 but on the creep...

At first I thought this with a dropper post and perhaps a fork upgrade.

https://alpkit.com/products/sonder-transmitter-sx-eagle

But this looks better specced, 29 though:

https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/CBOOSCGX/on-one-scandal-sram-gx-mountain-bike

But for the cost of a dropper post this is then similar cost, although not as well specced

https://alpkit.com/products/sonder-cortex-nx-eagle

And finally you get to this, might be a bit OTT but looks like more than £100 worth of bike than the Cortex?
 
https://alpkit.com/products/evol-29-sx-eagle

the Vitus linked previously is out of stock.

Any thoughts on going back to hardtail after so long, 29" wheels for someone of my size and the suitabilty of these bikes for these style trails.  Obviously test riding some would be ideal but pretty tricky at the moment with places closed and lack of stock.

Cheers

[SA Chris]

I'd borrow or a hire a modern hardtail if you can for a couple of rides just to remind yourself what they are like.

[nai]

That would be a good idea. I have emailed Alpkit and asked whether it's possible but suspect it'll be April 12th when shops reopen.

[sxrxg]

Some people seem to like modern 29" bikes even if they are smaller. It is telling though that lots of manufacturers seem to now be offering sizes xsmall and small in 27.5" or mullet setup (27.5" rear wheel and 29" front) with medium and above having 29" wheels.

The other thing to consider is tyre sizes, you may find that a hardtail with 27.5" rims and 2.6" or 2.8" tyres suit your riding more than larger wheels with more normal 2.3-2.4" width tyres.

Currently though finding a bike at all is probably the most difficult task. If you want something right away you probably will have to go with whatever you can get hold of. If you can wait until the end of the year and things are back to something slightly more normal in the world i can imagine lots of lightly used bikes will be flooding the second hand market...

[Paul B]

Currently though finding a bike at all is probably the most difficult task. If you want something right away you probably will have to go with whatever you can get hold of. If you can wait until the end of the year and things are back to something slightly more normal in the world i can imagine lots of lightly used bikes will be flooding the second hand market...

I was thinking this with road bikes when winter arrived (people who'd bought in lockdown but not really used them) but it really didn't seem to happen. I finally bought one last weekend but I've been looking for quite some time (size and spec being a compounding issue as well as Canyon completely f*cking up the new Aeroad [seat post and bars] so people were hesitant to upgrade).

Nai, given you're in Sheffield, is used not an option? I know the used market is tough and sales/purchases are tricky with the T4 restrictions but you get a lot more for your money.

In terms of suspension, I hadn't ridden in years and got a FS with 120mm of travel and instantly wished I'd gone for a little more. The 27.5" wheels are right for me (similar size to you) and I really struggled for stand-over clearance on 29" offerings I looked at. Every now and again I ride either my Dad's (hard tail) or Nat's FS which both have 26" wheels and the difference is staggering.

Some people seem to like modern 29" bikes even if they are smaller. It is telling though that lots of manufacturers seem to now be offering sizes xsmall and small in 27.5" or mullet setup (27.5" rear wheel and 29" front) with medium and above having 29" wheels.

Basically this.

[Sasquatch]

Some people seem to like modern 29" bikes even if they are smaller. It is telling though that lots of manufacturers seem to now be offering sizes xsmall and small in 27.5" or mullet setup (27.5" rear wheel and 29" front) with medium and above having 29" wheels.

The other thing to consider is tyre sizes, you may find that a hardtail with 27.5" rims and 2.6" or 2.8" tyres suit your riding more than larger wheels with more normal 2.3-2.4" width tyres.

So much depends on what you're riding.  Is it chattery? if so, go with 29, is it loose? 27.5+  is it super narrow/tight?  27.5 Regardless go full suspension.  The new geometry setups with full suspension setups are so amazing.

Currently though finding a bike at all is probably the most difficult task. If you want something right away you probably will have to go with whatever you can get hold of. If you can wait until the end of the year and things are back to something slightly more normal in the world i can imagine lots of lightly used bikes will be flooding the second hand market...

That could be the case, but around here I have seen the bike use on the trails probably triple in the last year.  snow bikes in winter and mountain in summer.  Road has seen less of an increase, but it still rose quite a bit.  And they're out regularly.  I suspect many of these people will continue riding regularly.

[Ged]

I'm sure I've banged on about this before, but if you don't want to break the bank, I can't recommend boardman bikes enough. My 27.5 full sus is 8 years old now, and going strong. Halfords upgraded the original elixir brakes for free after a few months as the originals were shit, and I've more recently upgraded them again to shimanos. But other than that, so much fun to ride. I've hammered it down lift access stuff in the alps, slogged over dartmoor, and at no point have I wished I had a different bike. That was the middle range one (they always seem to do a top, middle and bottom). They do hardtail 29 ers too.

More recently I've got hold of there cyclo Cross mid range, and again its effing awesome. I bought it because a road bike on the lanes where we live feels like a death trap, and it's just outstanding for the price. Feels like a £1500 bike for £850.

[Fultonius]

Just been out today with a mate who's just bought an  Orbea (Wild FS I think), e-MTB.

I've always been a wee bit anti e-bikes.

Wow.

What fun!  We were basically doing trials sections, bombing up technical trials you'd never (or at least very unlikely) get up on on a normal bike. Flat a twisty trails also a lot of fun. Very solid and stable downhill, and very fast over stuttery roots etc. (momentum init).

Still quite fun and engaging on the twisty downhills.  I really think they can open up a new world of fun that just isn't there on a purely pedal powered bike. I'm not going to get one for a while, need to come down a lot in price before I'd feel like I could justify it.

[Paul B]

I've been thinking about a Bafang conversion for that very reason.

[nai]

Cheers all

Some people seem to like modern 29" bikes even if they are smaller. It is telling though that lots of manufacturers seem to now be offering sizes xsmall and small in 27.5" or mullet setup (27.5" rear wheel and 29" front) with medium and above having 29" wheels.

The other thing to consider is tyre sizes, you may find that a hardtail with 27.5" rims and 2.6" or 2.8" tyres suit your riding more than larger wheels with more normal 2.3-2.4" width tyres.

Interesting, good logic re the tyre sizes.
Sat on a couple of 29s today and they didn't feel too bad. Standover height was a bit neat but in term of reach and length they didn't feel crazy far out comapred to the Orange, same reach and only ~50mm longer wheelbase.

Nai, given you're in Sheffield, is used not an option? I know the used market is tough and sales/purchases are tricky with the T4 restrictions but you get a lot more for your money.

Could be, once I stop going round in circles and make a decision.

In terms of suspension, I hadn't ridden in years and got a FS with 120mm of travel and instantly wished I'd gone for a little more. The 27.5" wheels are right for me (similar size to you) and I really struggled for stand-over clearance on 29" offerings I looked at. Every now and again I ride either my Dad's (hard tail) or Nat's FS which both have 26" wheels and the difference is staggering.

Good to know, cheers

I can't recommend boardman bikes enough.

Yes, they get mentioned as very good and aside from being 29 the 8.8 looks decent, will maybe keep an eye on them comig into stock

[nai]

Just been out today with a mate who's just bought an  Orbea (Wild FS I think), e-MTB.

Wow.

I actually started out looking at ebikes after my wife bought one last year and I discovered what fun they are. Unfortunately the budget wouldn't stretch but the seed had been sown.

[SA Chris]

I really think they can open up a new world of fun that just isn't there on a purely pedal powered bike.

They came up in conversation last Saturday as we were flogging up Glen Derry with skis and boots on backpacks. Very tempting in that respect.

[tlr]

Nai, you can take Kim’s 29” carbon hardtail for a ride if you like - geometry is a few years old but it might help you make a decision. I might even come with you.

I had an interesting experience yesterday, I borrowed a mates Trek Fuel EX, fully up to date full sus trail bike to see how it compared to my older full sus XC bike. First time I’d ridden 1x, dropper post, modern ‘trail’ geo,

Long story short, I wasn’t blown away by it at all. It felt very slow uphill (backed up by Strava) and a bit ponderous in tight stuff. It was quicker down Plantation descent and down through Blacka though (backed up by Strava). Given it’s extra weight and frankly ridiculous width tyres compared with my 10.5kg, 100mm XTR equipped bike this shouldn’t be surprising. But give how evangelical reviews are about modern geometry I was disappointed.

It could climb ok thanks to the steep seat angle, just rather slowly. The gaps in the huge cassette annoyed me - cadence was never quite right, it felt like I had to ride to the bike’s speed rather than choosing the gear I wanted. And I still don’t get the necessity for a dropper post but maybe I’d get used to it.

Means I can cross ‘trail bike’ off my list anyway.

[Paul B]

Pete tried to insist I needed a dropper when I was buying but I told him otherwise as I just couldn't see the point (I'd never needed one when younger).

The first ride out around Gisburn forest I was buzzing and got my wife to drop me at the top of the nearby fell on the way home for a descent back to where we lived. Hanging right over the back I hit something which I didn't roll over, pivoted, caught 'myself' on the seat I hadn't bothered to lower from flogging over the moor and landed face first in a tree.

I've now got a brand-x dropper and think it's bloody brilliant. I went out in the deep snow we had a month or so ago and it allowed me to have the seat perfect for ascent and then firmly out of the way for the slightly dodgy descents.

[sxrxg]

I fully agree that I won't ever ride a mountain bike without a dropper again. Negligible weight penalty and so easy to get the seat out the way for the decent where you need to be able to move around on the bike.

Note that modern geometry only really works using a dropper post. With the steep seat tube angles and long reach the seat is now positioned totally different than on older bikes where you could get off the back of the seat on steeps, this isn't really possible now as the seat would end up in your chest.

Also the previous comments regarding feeling ponderous and slower in tight stuff and uphill are true for enduro/or trial bikes with enduro leanings. These are geared to winching up and then plummeting down the roughest most technical tracks where the slower steering feel will make you feel safer and therefore faster. As part of this if you like a playful bike don't be afraid to downsize to reduce reach/wheelbase as I think for a lot of average trails the geometry numbers are getting a bit out of hand.

Finally if you want to do cross country racing/endurance racing/covering massive mileages then there are still lightweight bikes with more conservative angles, reach figures and less suspension that will be considerably quicker feeling. You just need to decide what is right for what you want to ride.

[nai]

Just been out today with a mate who's just bought an  Orbea (Wild FS I think), e-MTB.

Wow.

I actually started out looking at ebikes after my wife bought one last year and I discovered what fun they are. Unfortunately the budget wouldn't stretch but the seed had been sown.

So I really did go full circle.  Had stroke of luck when I broke a shock mounting bolt and went to a shop to see if they had one. Of course they didn't but when they'd finished laughing they did show me a second hand Cube which they'd taken as a PX just 3 months after originally selling.  They claimed it needed to go and after bit of research and soul searching I decided to go for it.

[SA Chris]

Sounds like serendipity to me.