[SA Chris]

For me they fall into 2 categories - the ones I can do (either properly or by beta busting) are brilliant. The ones I can't do are a load of shit.

[Nibile]

Fiend, your recent behaviour on this board had me thinking that someone had hacked your account, but since I am a particularly kind person, I didn't point it out.
In the case of this topic though, I was very close to the "punter" button, and only the extremely good mood given to me by my last fingers session kept me relaxed. That said, to pull you back onto the right path, I just want to let you know that you poll is lacking the two fundamental options "pink Anasazi" and "pain au chocolat".
The fact that no one pointed it out before me, only goes to show the decadence of this board in particular and of this world in general.

[SA Chris]

Nibs, my first post.

I'd say change your password before Dan posts anything else under your name.

[cheque]

not for me. I'm old and don't bounce.

Yeah, I'm in the same boat- can't boulder at all so low-percentage stuff where you'll fall off many times before you get the knack is way out of the question.

I actually feel like I'd really benefit from doing a bit of comp style stuff as I'm so undynamic and always have been. There's not much immediately obvious crossover from run and jump stuff but I think the chance to mix some of that in can't fail to help anyone as a climber so I'm definitely not in the "boo hiss, not proper climbing" camp but I wouldn't want to boulder regularly at a wall where more than a third were like this as Paul says. Wave/ board-style problems are another thing I feel like I really miss out on nowadays- also abstracted from reality but with a much more accepted crossover.

[Paul B]

I wouldn't want to boulder regularly at a wall where more than a third were like this as Paul says.

For clarity I was suggesting a ~third above a certain grade and I was including weirdness in this (so not just hop skip jump). If I went to a wall where a third total where hop skip and jump type problems I'd leave.

[Ru]

I've gone from hating to liking this style of problem, especially when there are easier problems set to learn the movements. Good post Orrin.

As a slight tangent, the posts about getting too old to repeatedly fall off are interesting. I have started to notice a disproportionate number of very active climbers aged from mid 30s upwards that are having serious hip problems/hip replacements. These are climbers that have spent 20 years+ bouldering indoors and outdoors above mats. Can't help but think that the current bouldering wall set ups of repeated 2-3m falls might prove to be pretty bad for hip joints long term.

[teestub]

They don't really set many of these at all at the Pudsey Depot - not sure why? Possibly not enough space to have people flailing around safely.

This entirely. I remember some time ago they decided a circuit of dyno problems would be a good idea and it was carnage.

I think the main problem I have with it is when they're used a lot in indoor climbing comps. If the purpose of the comp is to find out who the best climber is then blob-jumping has no real relation to Real Climbing - which is outdoor climbing. But I think the idea that indoor climbing comps are about finding out who is the best rock climber is long dead. Blob-jumping is a sport in its own right and indoor comps are about finding out who is the best at jumping between the blobs. So be it. It's not important anyway because it's indoor climbing.

The strange thing is that when these professional blob jumpers take a bit of time off and go on holiday for some rock climbing, it turns out they're as good at "Real Climbing" as pretty much all those hardened outdoor athletes.

[duncan]

not for me. I'm old and don't bounce.

Yeah, I'm in the same boat- can't boulder at all so low-percentage stuff where you'll fall off many times before you get the knack is way out of the question.

I actually feel like I'd really benefit from doing a bit of comp style stuff as I'm so undynamic and always have been.

Like going to a Catholic school, a good trad. upbringing stays with you! After some encouragement from John Kettle a couple of years ago I've tried to become more dynamic on lead and practiced it fairly regularly. I noticed last summer this was even creeping into trad. and not just desperate slaps in extremis. You could try introducing a bit more bounce into your climbing with a rope on, especially when you don't need to.

[Will Hunt]

I think the main problem I have with it is when they're used a lot in indoor climbing comps. If the purpose of the comp is to find out who the best climber is then blob-jumping has no real relation to Real Climbing - which is outdoor climbing. But I think the idea that indoor climbing comps are about finding out who is the best rock climber is long dead. Blob-jumping is a sport in its own right and indoor comps are about finding out who is the best at jumping between the blobs. So be it. It's not important anyway because it's indoor climbing.

The strange thing is that when these professional blob jumpers take a bit of time off and go on holiday for some rock climbing, it turns out they're as good at "Real Climbing" as pretty much all those hardened outdoor athletes.

Sure, they're not punters. There's obviously cross-over in that you have to be decent to be among the best blob-jumpers. What I'm saying is that being the best blob-jumper is different to being the best climber. That's fine, providing that we remember that rock climbing is sacred and special and that blob-jumping is fucking pointless 


Slightly related aside: in my local climbing club there are people who will occasionally arrange to travel together to climb at a climbing wall in a different city. To go bouldering inside when connies are perfectly good, if not chilly, outside. They walk among us.

[jwi]

A hardened old (>65) strong sport climber here told me: “I don't go to gyms anymore because it is fucking pointless. Even the campus-board has higher transfer to rock”. Nor sure he is right, but I'm lucky that the second nearest gym reset very often and set both comp-style and outdoor style. If I would go more than once a week I would be livid though, or spread the visits over multiple gyms.

I like wacky problems, always did, but I can no longer do anything that involves a four-points move off to a jug. Luckily those are often set low down (so not to kill customers) and I usually just start after the jump.

[teestub]

Sure, they're not punters. There's obviously cross-over in that you have to be decent to be among the best blob-jumpers. What I'm saying is that being the best blob-jumper is different to being the best climber. That's fine, providing that we remember that rock climbing is sacred and special and that blob-jumping is fucking pointless 

I think that if Tomoa did a reverse Ondra and took 6 months to go climbing outside he’d run out of hard problems to repeat in about 4 weeks

[jwi]

I think that if Tomoa did a reverse Ondra and took 6 months to go climbing outside he’d run out of hard problems to repeat in about 4 weeks 😄

True that!

[Nibile]

Nibs, my first post.

I'd say change your password before Dan posts anything else under your name.

Great minds... 

[remus]

I think that if Tomoa did a reverse Ondra and took 6 months to go climbing outside he’d run out of hard problems to repeat in about 4 weeks

Like this you mean?

[cheque]

You could try introducing a bit more bounce into your climbing with a rope on, especially when you don't need to.

Absolutely. I have been doing it a bit but not enough to make a difference that much I think. 

As a slight tangent, the posts about getting too old to repeatedly fall off are interesting...

Mine's not from the cumulative effects of falling onto mats sadly, it's from taking one massive deckout.

[SA Chris]

As a slight tangent, the posts about getting too old to repeatedly fall off are interesting. I have started to notice a disproportionate number of very active climbers aged from mid 30s upwards that are having serious hip problems/hip replacements. These are climbers that have spent 20 years+ bouldering indoors and outdoors above mats. Can't help but think that the current bouldering wall set ups of repeated 2-3m falls might prove to be pretty bad for hip joints long term.

We've just new matting installed, and I definitely feel it in my lower back after a long session, to a point where I'll try and downclimb most things before dropping off.  Hips still OK at present, I think again a fair bit of running and conditioning work actually does more good than harm.

[HarryBD]

Hips still OK at present, I think again a fair bit of running and conditioning work actually does more good than harm.

Yep think the impact from running (once conditioned) is the happy medium between sitting on your arse, hollowing out your bones and becoming Skellig and cratering from the sky and becoming goo

[sdm]

Good post... I think your point about making the easier problems more appealing with a more graduated learning curve is a good one and on the whole is well carried out.

Maybe I should head over there some time. Coordination problems are a big weakness of mine. Other than an occasional toehook catch, I struggle as soon as multiple limbs start moving at once or when paddle moves are needed. It's not for lack of trying, but I don't seem to be improving at them.

Maybe setting feedback boxes are the way forward to get what everyone wants?... I know some walls have them, but certainly not every wall.

Big Rock in Milton Keynes has just started an online route feedback system. TCA used to have one years ago when I climbed there. I've always been surprised that more walls don't have one.

It gives the setters and management feedback on what is/isn't working for their clientele and it gives the climbers an opportunity to discuss the quality/difficulty/variety/frequency of setting (and beta too on some systems).

A lot of the regulars are probably going to make their views known anyway. But less frequent or shy climbers probably won't without the option of being able to do it online.

A decent system will also allow the wall owners to spot patterns over time regarding whether they are getting the grades right over a particular range or how well certain guest setter's routes are received etc.

Interesting that your customers are psyched on the blob jumping style on the whole. What percentage of them do you reckon have climbed outside/climb outside regularly?

I'd hazard a guess that maybe 15% or less of our customers actually climb outside and i think that guess is on the generous side. Being a new wall in a city centre the vast majority of our customers started climbing with us, so the blobby style is almost the norm for them. Some obviously do get out, but I suspect they maybe get out a couple times a year tops!

With our nearest rock being an hour or two away, the number who climb outdoors from here is definitely lower than 15%, even among the wall regulars. If you discount the Easter Font trip plus maybe an annual pilgrimage to the plantation or horseshoe, the number of outdoor climbers is tiny.

The number who travel to climb outdoors regularly is also outnumbered by the number who will travel the same distance to visit a different wall or to go to a competition.

That's good to know! Roughly that's my thought process, the board has plenty of crimps from finger friendly to heinously small one. So if you want them, there it is... That being said, a board isn't what everyone wants, so yeah maybe some more on the overhangs is the way to go, it's not too big of a deal to do as they take so little space.

The Venn diagram of those who regularly use the boards at our wall and those who regularly climb outdoors is more or less a single coloured circle.

[cheque]

I'd hazard a guess that maybe 15% or less of our customers actually climb outside and i think that guess is on the generous side. Being a new wall in a city centre the vast majority of our customers started climbing with us, so the blobby style is almost the norm for them. Some obviously do get out, but I suspect they maybe get out a couple times a year tops!

With our nearest rock being an hour or two away, the number who climb outdoors from here is definitely lower than 15%, even among the wall regulars. If you discount the Easter Font trip plus maybe an annual pilgrimage to the plantation or horseshoe, the number of outdoor climbers is tiny.

Completely  but do walls in this situtation (miles from rock, most of the users started climbing at that wall and climb there almost exclusively) see a drop-off of people who are keen and regular users just getting bored with it after a few years? I often feel like this must be the case for all but a few people who don't get into rock climbing or comps. I assume walls are pretty familiar with stats of how many people only visit once and never again, how many visit regularly but only for a few months, how many come twice a week for a longer period etc. but are such "lifespan" stats taken into account or is the indoor climbing boom too young to say?

[steveri]

Sounds like I was well out with my >50% and being generous to wall users ...that being the 'right' answer, that people *should* want to climb outside. Ironic if walls were to become gradually less useful for people that want to climb outside

The geek in me wants to know more about stats about who uses a wall, how wide they spread their wall wings, whether they go outside, how often etc. I too have come across the "let's have an away day at all wall X an hour away" ...when it's lovely outside. 

[Fiend]

Nibile you can spare some precious hand-sanitiser to wash your mouth out too. Honestly I'm mortified. I think at least my posts have variety, some positivity and even relevance. Oh, and comprehensibility too...

It seems people are able to cope with a fairly topical discussion like this one 

Roberto, Paulio - usually I do pretty well on Depot blobs, 6 or so pretty quick. I asked when the latest batch went up so was forewarned they were shortterm ...

[dunnyg]

I went to my nearest wall yesterday, they had stripped a section of wall and set some comp style comp problems.
I have to say I did enjoy the ones I could do. The ones I couldn't I generally thought were stupid, including a "run at the wall, and jump on a slopey volume to stand up into a press". I cheated into the start and couldn't do the next move anyway.

That said, there were 8 problems across a section of wall that normally must have 20-30, which is frustrating. Also I got too keen to get on them, didn't warm up properly and tweaked something, making for a short session 

[spidermonkey09]

"run at the wall, and jump on a slopey volume to stand up into a press".

Whether I can do these or not I consider them to be the worst examples in the genre.