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Topic split: The future of hard climbing in the UK is probably indoors (Read 50153 times)

mrjonathanr

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The reason I think comp climbers tend to fare okay outdoors is because they are good at climbing.

Wellsy

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That'd explain why I am terrible outdoors cos I am shite at climbing! It is all coming clear now.

mrjonathanr

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It takes time to adapt, to be fair, especially when footholds are no longer massive neon coloured ledges.

Wellsy

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Yeah although grit also adds an extra complexity in that it expects you to smear on stuff a lot more, and you don't get a lot of smearing inside I think. Even at the Works there's usually some shitty little slopey thing to say "put your foot here, idiot" whereas outdoors it's like I dunno mate pick a little ripple on the rock, stick your foot on it and hope it doesn't disappear under you. The bit where you hope it doesn't disappear under you is something I am going to be working on for a while I think...

Anyway yeah a bit diversiony from the thread topic but yeah just thought it was interesting is all.

Fiend

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there's usually some shitty little slopey thing to say "put your foot here, idiot" whereas outdoors it's like I dunno mate pick a little ripple on the rock, stick your foot on it and hope it doesn't disappear under you
:lol: you should write an indoors-outdoors transition article.

moose

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Yeah although grit also adds an extra complexity in that it expects you to smear on stuff a lot more, and you don't get a lot of smearing inside I think. Even at the Works there's usually some shitty little slopey thing to say "put your foot here, idiot" whereas outdoors it's like I dunno mate pick a little ripple on the rock, stick your foot on it and hope it doesn't disappear under you. The bit where you hope it doesn't disappear under you is something I am going to be working on for a while I think...

Anyway yeah a bit diversiony from the thread topic but yeah just thought it was interesting is all.

It's not just grit that's like that - it also applies to polished limestone sport.  In non-Covid19 times, my winters were almost entirely spent bouldering indoors.  Then, come Spring, I would return to Malham and without fail, find that I had completely forgotten how to climb rock.  Warm-ups that I had done 100s of times before had become bewildering ordeals.

Eventually it always passed.  The mental transition was from "there are no footholds" and "all the handholds are horrible and painful" to "everything is a foothold, they're just all crap - smear harder and deal with it" and "be grateful for the painful handholds, at least they're positive".

And re the success of competition climbers... surprisingly, climbers good enough to be in elite, international standard development programmes are good at climbing!

Wellsy

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Yeah although grit also adds an extra complexity in that it expects you to smear on stuff a lot more, and you don't get a lot of smearing inside I think. Even at the Works there's usually some shitty little slopey thing to say "put your foot here, idiot" whereas outdoors it's like I dunno mate pick a little ripple on the rock, stick your foot on it and hope it doesn't disappear under you. The bit where you hope it doesn't disappear under you is something I am going to be working on for a while I think...

Anyway yeah a bit diversiony from the thread topic but yeah just thought it was interesting is all.

It's not just grit that's like that - it also applies to polished limestone sport.  In non-Covid19 times, my winters were almost entirely spent bouldering indoors.  Then, come Spring, I would return to Malham and without fail, find that I had completely forgotten how to climb rock.  Warm-ups that I had done 100s of times before had become bewildering ordeals.

Eventually it always passed.  The mental transition was from "there are no footholds" and "all the handholds are horrible and painful" to "everything is a foothold, they're just all crap - smear harder and deal with it" and "be grateful for the painful handholds, at least they're positive".

And re the success of competition climbers... surprisingly, climbers good enough to be in elite, international standard development programmes are good at climbing!

Yeah. I don't think it's surprising to me that in all my 18 months of climbing indoors and out, probably the hardest outdoor problem I have done is Apprentice Wall at Anston because the holds being distinct and clear means that I can actually identify them, pull hard, and use the indoor skills properly. Most of the time the trouble I have is actually figuring out what I am bloody well supposed to be holding/standing on!

there's usually some shitty little slopey thing to say "put your foot here, idiot" whereas outdoors it's like I dunno mate pick a little ripple on the rock, stick your foot on it and hope it doesn't disappear under you
:lol: you should write an indoors-outdoors transition article.

I think that'd about be the extent of the distilled wisdom right there...

moose

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Using bad smears is the climbing equivalent of those quantum mechanical thought experiments on the role of the observer. They are not footholds until you believe they are footholds, and imbue the essential quality of foothold-ness into them with your commitment (Schrödinger's smear?!). 

I vaguely remember a climber (I think Johnny Dawes) likening smeary grit climbing to cornering in a racing car.  The instinct is to be tentative but that leads to failure, slipping / not making it through the corner and smashing into the barrier.  To make smears into useable footholds, you have to commit wholeheartedly to them   Likewise, successful cornering in an F1 car requires a certain amount of speed (to generate the required downforce) - safety somewhat ironically requires suppressing the desire for self-preservation that tells you to slow down.

Whatthedickens

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There's a whole lot of Dawes speak that while flowery can also be expressed in less contrived ways. Lets hear one of the comp parkour masters phrase it like Johnny,unlikely.

Muenchener

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Using bad smears is the climbing equivalent of those quantum mechanical thought experiments on the role of the observer. They are not footholds until you believe they are footholds, and imbue the essential quality of foothold-ness into them with your commitment (Schrödinger's smear?!). 

I recall Adrian Berry saying something similar in a coaching session: "a hold isn't a thing, it's an interaction between you and the rock"

Johnny Brown

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We used to have a saying 'the weighted foot never slips', which isn't 100% true but is a useful mantra. Transfer of weight needs to be deliberate not tentative; sticky rubber works by deforming to match the rock which can't happen if you paw at it. Sustained friction climbing does require a certain amount of suspension of disbelief.

Wellsy

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I am guessing the best way to gain confidence with smears outside is to just go to Burbage South a lot and repeat smeary slabs over and over?

dunnyg

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Other burbages are available, terms and conditions apply.

Fiend

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And Burbage North Tiny Slab, and Stanage Lone Boulder, and Roaches Lower Tier Boulders, and the back of Ramshaw....

Wellsy

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Well as it happens I am off to Burbage West tonight with my mate to try Breakfast again so I might go down the valley a bit and try Tiny Slab in all it's various Krishna-like incarnations.

 

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