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Black Lives Matter (Read 18422 times)

andy popp

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#75 Re: Black Lives Matter
July 07, 2020, 08:54:51 am
Case Business School to change its name.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-53310997?fbclid=IwAR1_2Q4BIMt05Pfl8IsduXY_guebu9b72ef2CvO_hgcfCGg5Vc3Q8AH2iNk

This seems entirely appropriate to me.

JamieG

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#76 Re: Black Lives Matter
July 09, 2020, 01:27:16 pm
An interesting article about racist route names and implementing a system to flag offensive ones on Mountain Project. However it looks like the nicked the idea from the creator and advocate of the system, Melissa Utomo, a woman of colour. Not a good look for Mountain Project. And definitely smacks of wanting to look like you are anti-racist without actually engaging in any change.

https://www.melaninbasecamp.com/around-the-bonfire/2020/7/6/how-mountain-project-stole-from-a-woman-of-color

abarro81

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#77 Re: Black Lives Matter
July 09, 2020, 02:26:08 pm
For those of us who've only come across it in passing, is Mountain Project basically a US version of UKC?

duncan

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#78 Re: Black Lives Matter
July 09, 2020, 03:48:32 pm
For those of us who've only come across it in passing, is Mountain Project basically a US version of UKC?

MP is all user-generated content: forums, photo albums, and a route database / area guide. It has none of UKC's original journalism. The route database is important, it is the de facto guidebook and definitive record for many US areas. It's hard to underestimate how well-off we are in the UK for guidebooks in comparison. My gut feeling is the US has a larger number of blatantly discriminatory names than the UK (I'll not speculate why) though we are hardly spotless.  As MP is often the 'guidebook committee' it is important they get this right.

Mountain Project was owned by REI for a few years but has recently passed back to the original owner/developer. The story about stealing the notification softwear (or the concept, I'm unclear) does not look good. Bending over backwards, it's possible the current owner/developer didn't have his eye on the ball during the change of ownership and, in his rush to put something in place when it finally became obvious to him it was needed, did not give credit where he should have done. I'd like to hear his side of the story.

Will Hunt

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#79 Re: Black Lives Matter
July 09, 2020, 04:27:23 pm
Somebody I follow on the old Instagram posted a story about this. It was a number of route pages from Mountain Post with unpleasant names. There was then the response from an admin (probably a volunteer admin such as they have on UKC as opposed to somebody actually running the site) who had responded to the flags with some MUHrica-esque bullshit.

For what it's worth I was on a Zoom call last Saturday with guidebook producers from the CC, FRCC, Northumberland MC, SMC, and the YMC and when I raised the issue nobody batted an eyelid. Everybody is on board.

(Not that our view is at all relevant because Rockfax will soon complete their mission of wiping definitive and volunteer-produced guidebooks from the face of the earth. All will be consumed by the mighty Rockfax).

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#80 Re: Black Lives Matter
July 10, 2020, 08:42:05 am
Somebody I follow on the old Instagram posted a story about this. It was a number of route pages from Mountain Post with unpleasant names. There was then the response from an admin (probably a volunteer admin such as they have on UKC as opposed to somebody actually running the site) who had responded to the flags with some MUHrica-esque bullshit.

For what it's worth I was on a Zoom call last Saturday with guidebook producers from the CC, FRCC, Northumberland MC, SMC, and the YMC and when I raised the issue nobody batted an eyelid. Everybody is on board.

(Not that our view is at all relevant because Rockfax will soon complete their mission of wiping definitive and volunteer-produced guidebooks from the face of the earth. All will be consumed by the mighty Rockfax).

All is not lost Will. There will be 12 from the various peoples of Britain who will form a fellowship and despite difficult adventures some will reach mount Doom and throw Alan's ring of power to destruction.

remus

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#81 Re: Black Lives Matter
July 10, 2020, 09:06:20 am
An interesting article about racist route names and implementing a system to flag offensive ones on Mountain Project. However it looks like the nicked the idea from the creator and advocate of the system, Melissa Utomo, a woman of colour. Not a good look for Mountain Project. And definitely smacks of wanting to look like you are anti-racist without actually engaging in any change.

https://www.melaninbasecamp.com/around-the-bonfire/2020/7/6/how-mountain-project-stole-from-a-woman-of-color

I read that article yesterday, and for what it's worth I think it really over eggs the 'stolen feature' angle. Flagging of content is a very normal feature (it's been on the UKC forums forever, for example) and the implementation she's designed could have been lifted pretty much wholesale from, say youtube:



For me it really spoilt the article as it distracts from the far more interesting topic of offensive route names.

tomtom

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#82 Re: Black Lives Matter
July 10, 2020, 09:16:01 am
Somebody I follow on the old Instagram posted a story about this. It was a number of route pages from Mountain Post with unpleasant names. There was then the response from an admin (probably a volunteer admin such as they have on UKC as opposed to somebody actually running the site) who had responded to the flags with some MUHrica-esque bullshit.

For what it's worth I was on a Zoom call last Saturday with guidebook producers from the CC, FRCC, Northumberland MC, SMC, and the YMC and when I raised the issue nobody batted an eyelid. Everybody is on board.

(Not that our view is at all relevant because Rockfax will soon complete their mission of wiping definitive and volunteer-produced guidebooks from the face of the earth. All will be consumed by the mighty Rockfax).

All is not lost Will. There will be 12 from the various peoples of Britain who will form a fellowship and despite difficult adventures some will reach mount Doom and throw Alan's ring of power to destruction.

I plan to start a series of guides called RickFix that will shamelessly skim the shamelessly skimmed Rockfax publications. The guides will cunningly replace the 'fluttery heart' and 'strong arm' icons within the originals with a ice cream, and unicorn respectively. To avoid any copyright issues with the topo sketches/lines on crag photo's - a machine learning algorithm will randomly shift the lines slightly - unintendely making them more accurate in the process.

tomtom

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#83 Re: Black Lives Matter
July 10, 2020, 09:35:35 am
Back on topic. If you've not seen this  - its worth watching Michael Holding talking during the cricket yesterday. Bear in mind this wasnt a pre-planned segment - this is Michael talking off the cuff filling in during a rain delay - and its all the more powerful for it.

https://news.sky.com/story/michael-holding-ex-west-indies-stars-impassioned-plea-to-end-institutionalised-racism-12024733


Wil

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#84 Re: Black Lives Matter
July 10, 2020, 11:33:08 am
I read that article yesterday, and for what it's worth I think it really over eggs the 'stolen feature' angle. Flagging of content is a very normal feature.

This was my feeling too. There was a lack of detail about quite a few value judgments which undermined the article, even if the main thrust of it was good. Stealing her intellectual property is a big claim, it would have been good to see details because, as you say, flagging offensive content is normal practice.

I had a look at her proposal document. It was good, involved iterations to improve it based on feedback etc. This amounted to changing the words from "report this page" to "flag innapropriate content" and that users liked having an optional text box to explain. It's also quite basic, there's no way it's a complex enough idea to constitute the theft of intellectual property in a legal sense. It used the existing Flag feature on MP forums as its basis. So really, this tool amounted to making sure the wording and options were correct and that the text complied with accessibility standards. It would have been an easy win for MP to take her project and pay her for it though.

The tool MP have used is hidden in the "Improve this Page" button and doesn't present options, only the ability to flag the route. It also says on the page that the route has been flagged.

Andy B

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#85 Re: Black Lives Matter
July 10, 2020, 11:44:05 am
Back on topic. If you've not seen this  - its worth watching Michael Holding talking during the cricket yesterday. Bear in mind this wasnt a pre-planned segment - this is Michael talking off the cuff filling in during a rain delay - and its all the more powerful for it.

https://news.sky.com/story/michael-holding-ex-west-indies-stars-impassioned-plea-to-end-institutionalised-racism-12024733

Excellent.

joeisidle

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#86 Re: Black Lives Matter
July 10, 2020, 01:05:20 pm
Back on topic. If you've not seen this  - its worth watching Michael Holding talking during the cricket yesterday. Bear in mind this wasnt a pre-planned segment - this is Michael talking off the cuff filling in during a rain delay - and its all the more powerful for it.

https://news.sky.com/story/michael-holding-ex-west-indies-stars-impassioned-plea-to-end-institutionalised-racism-12024733

Excellent.

Agreed, was fully expecting this to go no further than the usual "starting a conversation" gumph, as an unfortunate amount of other coverage (including in the climbing media) seems to have done. The clear and passionate focus on imbalances in representation (particularly in the ECB) and the explicit calling out of unconscious bias in white communities that wouldn't consider themselves racist was a refreshing surprise.

IanP

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#87 Re: Black Lives Matter
July 10, 2020, 01:50:18 pm
Back on topic. If you've not seen this  - its worth watching Michael Holding talking during the cricket yesterday. Bear in mind this wasnt a pre-planned segment - this is Michael talking off the cuff filling in during a rain delay - and its all the more powerful for it.

https://news.sky.com/story/michael-holding-ex-west-indies-stars-impassioned-plea-to-end-institutionalised-racism-12024733

Excellent.

Agreed, was fully expecting this to go no further than the usual "starting a conversation" gumph, as an unfortunate amount of other coverage (including in the climbing media) seems to have done. The clear and passionate focus on imbalances in representation (particularly in the ECB) and the explicit calling out of unconscious bias in white communities that wouldn't consider themselves racist was a refreshing surprise.

Agreed as well.  Had meant to get round to watching this and glad I have now, articulate, passionate and powerful.

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#88 Re: Black Lives Matter
July 16, 2020, 05:48:38 am
Jon Stewart posed this on the other channel. It is a blog from a criminologist and was part of a longer response to some typical nonsense from Sam Harris, but is well worth a listen in its own right as it dismantles the arguments often presented to deny key assertions of the BLM cause. It gets better as it progresses.



For fairness this was the Sam Harris blog


Offwidth

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JamieG

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#90 Re: Black Lives Matter
November 17, 2020, 05:01:00 pm
Thought this was interesting. All about a rock climbing centre in a deprived area of Memphis. Makes me aware of how much I take for granted having easy access to both the outdoors and indoor walls.


gardinrm

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#91 Re: Black Lives Matter
November 17, 2020, 06:35:44 pm
Enjoyed that a lot.

Sasquatch

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#92 Re: Black Lives Matter
November 17, 2020, 08:45:20 pm
really good!

BrutusTheBear

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#93 Re: Black Lives Matter
November 17, 2020, 11:37:50 pm
Love this... 'We're not for profit we're for people' :clap2:

T_B

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#94 Re: Black Lives Matter
December 24, 2020, 10:16:13 am
United We Climb are conducting a survey around racism in climbing.

Hope this is OK to post a link here?

https://unitedweclimb.com/blog/

(Full disclosure: I didn’t write the survey but helped them put it online)

teestub

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#95 Re: Black Lives Matter
December 24, 2020, 10:49:31 am
I’m pretty sure it’s there by error and they will realise at some point, but for more South Memphis action, the Black Ice film from this year’s Reel Rock is currently here:


SA Chris

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#96 Re: Black Lives Matter
December 24, 2020, 11:08:08 am
Was just about to post a link to the same clip via EPIC TV, better from source though..

JamieG

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#97 Re: Black Lives Matter
September 04, 2023, 11:26:39 am
My wife thought this (https://twitter.com/anjgoswami/status/1697568265462018514/photo/1) was an interesting parallel to the racist route names debate that came up a few years ago. It seems like the natural history sciences are having their own dilemma about what to do with species names that honour known racists, or in the worst cases just use racist terms. Species names change all the time as their relationship to other species is better understood. But usually this happens in a systematic manner. The oldest names taking precedent. But it seems there is some resistance to changing names to remove racist language in order to maintain stability.

 

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