[Mr.Burns]

Word to Panton for the "question of trust" piece in his bouldering scene this month.

Hopefully now SOC will realise that claiming world class grades without proof is not the way to rebuild an alredy doubted reputation in todays clinical bouldering world.

With a bit of luck all the issues regarding these ascents will be laid to rest and Si will answer our direct questions with some direct answers!

Si the ball is in your court!

[AndyR]

What does it say?

[Fingers of a Martyr]

Word to Panton for the "question of trust" piece in his bouldering scene this month.

Hopefully now SOC will realise that claiming world class grades without proof is not the way to rebuild an alredy doubted reputation in todays clinical bouldering world.

With a bit of luck all the issues regarding these ascents will be laid to rest and Si will answer our direct questions with some direct answers!

and what exactly do u want to ask him then Burns?

as far as i can tell there ain't a single question in those three paragraphs.

this just looks like another poorly disguised attack on the man.  :rolleyes:

and don't u mean 'cynical' not 'clinical'?

[dave]

i don't think its a poorly disguised attack, i think its a ronseal-style "does exactly what it says on the tin" statement of fact.

[Fingers of a Martyr]

i don't think its a poorly disguised attack, i think its a ronseal-style "does exactly what it says on the tin" statement of fact.

and what exactly is it stating dave?

if it's applauding simon panton for his column then only the first line was required.

the rest of it reads like another dig at Si.

if you're that bothered tom why not have the balls to ring him up and ask him about his ascents or at least send him a PM?

otherwise STOP TROLLING. (yeah i no, that's rich coming from me) :roll:

[Mr.Burns]

It was not an attack on Si actually.

Your right fingers there isn't a question in that post because I was refering to previous posts on this forum in which Si either  avoided answering a question or gave an answer in the style of a politician i.e gave a long entertaing post without actually answering the question.

I would love Si to prove his doubters wrong (of which I am one).

[Mr.Burns]

You got his phone number then?

[Fingers of a Martyr]

it's been posted on SC several times. go and have a look for it. it won't take ya any longer than posting on here stirring things up would.

[Mr.Burns]

Where have you gone this idea that i am stirring things up?

I am only saying that its got to the piont (with SOC especially) that alot of people don't belive him which is not nice for him.

Therefore if he could prove what he has done or at least come up with some witnesses and photos that actually show the problem/nature of the climbing then the world would be able to live in harmony!

Have you actually read the article Fingers?

[webbo]

What does it say?

it says that either si is one of the top ten boulders in the world or a fantist and in order to clear up the doubt's.he should produce credible witness's and/or evidence to back his claim's.i feel pantontino has put it across in a sensitive way without getting in to a slagging match.


it needed to be said :!:

[dave]

fingers you seems to stick up for Si a fair bit - I assume you've been privvy to some inside info or conclusive evidence that proves Si's case, and once and for all proves he's not just a windupmerchant, Can you please share that info with the rest of us so we can join the enlightened few. Don't hold out on us with these new facts, we wanna see!  PLEEEEAAAAAASSSSEEE! Pretty pleaseeeee!??!   :hyper:

You've got us all on the edge of our seats now, talk about eager anticipation! You can't just hint at stuff that impostant and then not let us in on the secret - how cruel would that be!!! come on spill the beans, you could cut the atmosphere with a knife here.    :boz:

[Fingers of a Martyr]

u see dave, posts like that r probably one of the reason he don't give sensible answers. it's not my place to say anything more about si's ascents other than i believe him 100%. i've talked=pm'd him several times and whenever i've asked him anything i've had a straightforward and sensible reply.

actually although i've said this before, this is last line i write on this oh so tiresome subject.

if anyone wants to continue this further pm me or more importantly why not pm Si. i've pretty much said all i'm gonna say on the subject.

[Mr.Burns]

Fingers, I take it you don't doubt Mr. Smith when he says he has done hard things? No one does cos he has witnesses, videos and credited photos of his hard problems.

Do you doubt Gaskins?

I have never seen any footage of Si climbing, every photo I have seen is crdited to O'Connor Coll which would be fine if you could actually see the problem concerned. Who takes his photos? why don't they come forward?

Claiming problems requires people to trust you so if people begin not trusting you then you should either accept no one trusts you and stay out of the limelight or you should prove that you are trust worthy (in my opinion).

Dave is on to something, what do you know about the man that we don't?

[tc]

Yeah. Brave man, well done.  I'd stay away from the computer for a day or two if I were you, Panton :-).
I was talking to another Scottish activist about this last night and it does indeed all come down to trust in the end. We both agreed on the principle of "concensus credibility". For example, and at a more modest level, I do most of my best bouldering during solitary wanderings with my dog as spotter (being alone  concentrates the mind and is a far more intense and pure experience, worth at least a couple of grades). However, if I then return with tales of a hard new problem, it has credibility as I have actually been seen climbing at this standard on boulders in the Peak, the Lakes, Northumbria, Wales, Scotland, Font, Austria, Switzerland and the States and during my 'misspent' 1990s at various comps - a highly critical audience and a situation in which it is impossible to cheat -, playing on stuff, training with other credible players, setting problems of a similar standard to those claimed for competitions, etc. And, crucially, I am not claiming cutting edge new problems at V12 and above. Thus, logically, I am free to continue my solitary explorations without a camcorder or attendant media team to provide evidence. I can even shape up like a complete punter and flail miserably on a lowly V-easy in the full glare of publicity if I'm having a bad day, and no one gives a fuck. And sometimes, when I do pull one out of the bag, there are people there to witness it.
If I were claiming a whole bunch of new stuff as SOC has done (4 V11s, 2 V12s, 3 V13s, one V14/15 and one V15 plus a rash of V9s and V10s, all new, in a single year, if my count-up is correct) than I would expect to provide credible proof if asked for it, or at the very least I would expect to be believed, based on previous witnessed ascents .
I know of only about two or three other boulderers in the world who might be capable of that kind of output. I would like to believe that SOC is one of them.

[Fingers of a Martyr]

can i just ask who u r tc? just so i can put all that in context. tim carruthers?

[webbo]

can i just ask who u r tc? just so i can put all that in context.

he's one of your local bouldering guru's :wink:

i fookin love si he really get's every body chatting away. :D

[Fingers of a Martyr]

lol, i've gotta admit it is quite funny at the rate threads like this grow. remember when the witch hunt thread got to 8 pages in 4 days or summit.

[tc]

If this one degenerates into a similarly abusive witch hunt I'll see my fucking arse! It took me ages to type that shite  :wink:

[webbo]

i thought your effort was worthwhile.

[BoulderHog]

I've yet to read anything unreasonable said about SOC, what is wrong with asking for proof over ascents of this grade? I mean honestly Finger's, what the hell are you on about defending SOC all the time, jumping on your high horse at any given opportunity, unless of course you know something we don't. If not, then all you are is a little Tony Blair, you get a fixed idea and go with it despite all the evidence and CANNOT listen to reason.

Either do what you said and stop posting on this topic, or spill the beans of a witnessed ascent or repeat that you have done to confirm Si's claims. Remember, he could just as easily hide his scorecard or not have one at all, the man wants to receive attention for his claims, almost nobody believes him so he has to do something about that unless he really doesn't give a shit about all the criticism, in which case neither should you.

[dave]

i recon we send a team from the UN headed by Hans Blix to search for "8c capabilities".



go Hans, go hans, get busy.

[BoulderHog]

Hans Hans he's are man, if Hans can't do it . . .

Tony and George can instead, with Fingers taking up the rear as spin master general  

[Mr.Burns]

Word to that boulderhog!!

Have you seen him climb fingers? are you his drinking buddy?
 :drink:

[dave]

Have you seen him climb fingers? are you his drinking buddy?
 :drink:

they may have something a bit more special. Afterall Si's always going on about you-know-what.

 :bang:

[Mr.Burns]

Well it must get boring up on Skye and after a bottle of whiskey who knows what could happen!