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Conies Dale Access (Read 7552 times)

Bonjoy

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Conies Dale Access
June 02, 2020, 04:44:24 pm
EDIT: <The RAD has now been updated, and after discussions with Henry, who's familiar with the route in via Oxlow Rake, this has been recommended. It has the benefits of bypassing the landowner's farm, gaining CROW wholly via public footpaths, not requiring any wall hopping, and being only fractionally longer than the previous approach. >


The current situation with regards to the landowner remains unchanged - he is against people climbing at the crag. As it's CROW land his principal objection is the crossing of walls and fences.
Yesterday I heard second hand (so only know the sketchiest of details)that he'd shown some climbers off whilst brandishing a shotgun and stated that the crag is 'closed'!
This coincides with discussions I've had with the BMC about stopping the voluntary ban, given that the issue seems to have dropped off the national parks radar, nothing has changed, and we have a legal right to be there.
I'm going to assist in drafting something up for the RAD detailing the options for approach, but for now I think these are the main points to take away.

- The landowner still objects to climbers at the crag
- The crag is on CROW land so we have a right to be there
- The BMC no longer supports a voluntary ban
- The landowner appears to be a gnarly character and has behaved in a threatening way to climber. Proceed with due caution
- DO NOT APPROACH FROM PEAK FOREST VIA THE NORMAL APPROACH. Because: A -  you may meet the landowner. B - crossing walls and fences is to be avoided and is probably illegal. C - while the current pandemic is a live issue it's best to avoid parking in quiet villages and approaching past dwellings, where other options exist
- If you wish to visit the crag please come in either from the NW via footpaths from the entrance to Eldon Quarry on the Castleton to Sparrow Pit road; or through Oxlow Rake east of Peak Forest.

I will given more details on the approach options when I've looked into them more. The Eldon approach may or may not require a wall crossing. The Oxlow approach might involve parking in PF, so neither is ideal unfortunately.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2020, 11:04:36 pm by Bonjoy, Reason: Update »

Duma

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#1 Re: Conies Dale Access
June 02, 2020, 05:41:11 pm
Worth updating ukc?

lurcher

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#2 Re: Conies Dale Access
June 02, 2020, 07:56:12 pm
Jon is there a case for just following the normal footpath  from PF but instead of cutting down continue until access land is reached then easiest way in over a wall?

Whichever way you go in there is still the issue of a wall or 2 i think. I looked at the eldon approach once out on a bike but not close up but from memory there looked like there was wall (s) to cross (anyone tried?)

Is the PF way just the visibility to farmer?, aside from the fence/walls?  You could be seen accessing in easily enough from the hillside on the east anywhich way.. I don't think the 'no parking in quiet villages holds any water now really- peak is rammed and climbers are a tiny proportion of the overall foot traffic. .In terms of virus risk negligible surely?

mark20

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#3 Re: Conies Dale Access
June 02, 2020, 08:03:56 pm
The approach from Eldon Quarry is totally out of sight from all houses/farms/buildings and you don’t need to cross any walls until you get down to the one in front of the crag. It’s quite a long walk though.

Fiend

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#4 Re: Conies Dale Access
June 02, 2020, 08:04:59 pm
Cheers goatjoy, I've been wanting to check it out at some point so this is useful info.

Lurcher I think part of the issue with avoiding too much parking pressure in small villages is avoiding giving those twats with mattresses on their backs a bad name and thus avoiding future access problems. In part.

tomtom

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#5 Re: Conies Dale Access
June 02, 2020, 08:15:52 pm
There’s not much room for parking near the path in PF (though plenty down the road) - but most of the parking is outside someone’s house.

lurcher

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#6 Re: Conies Dale Access
June 02, 2020, 08:23:03 pm
Seems like Eldon approach is a sensible way then if out of sight/only that wall at top. Will give it a go sometime. If it doesn't now rain for months.   

Fiend- agreed was just making the point that Bonjoy made specific to the pandemic cos you could apply that thinking to Rubicon as well...

Hopefully Bonjoy or someone can get RAD/UKC updated with the best info, probably still get some folk going in from PF though who aren't aware.


Bonjoy

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#7 Re: Conies Dale Access
June 02, 2020, 11:00:24 pm
Jon is there a case for just following the normal footpath  from PF but instead of cutting down continue until access land is reached then easiest way in over a wall?

Whichever way you go in there is still the issue of a wall or 2 i think. I looked at the eldon approach once out on a bike but not close up but from memory there looked like there was wall (s) to cross (anyone tried?)

Is the PF way just the visibility to farmer?, aside from the fence/walls?  You could be seen accessing in easily enough from the hillside on the east anywhich way.. I don't think the 'no parking in quiet villages holds any water now really- peak is rammed and climbers are a tiny proportion of the overall foot traffic. .In terms of virus risk negligible surely?
Unfortunately there isn't a viable crossing point until well past the end of the crag.
The main point of avoiding access via PF is to reduce avoidable conflict with the landowner, who has a history of threatening behaviour.
Whatever our legal rights we don't want another Whitehouse incident.
Regards COVID, it's context specific. The context here being a history of disputed access. Better to make a little extra effort rather than feed preexisting grievances and make a bad situation worse.

I've yet to try the Oxlow approach, but I believe this option is shorter than the Eldon approach and involves no wall crossings, either to gain access land or within it. Sounds promising, but need to explore best options for parking before fully recommending.

remus

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#8 Re: Conies Dale Access
June 02, 2020, 11:27:26 pm
I went this evening and used the approach via the quarry. Only space for ~3 cars but the walk in itself is fine, about 30mins through some fields and only have to cross one wall just as you get the crag. There's a spot where it's just barbed wire and easy to get over without doing any damage.

I'll put together a quick map tomorrow.


Bonjoy

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#10 Re: Conies Dale Access
June 03, 2020, 09:03:56 am
Thanks Remus. There is further parking along the track if the spaces by the entrance are full.

tomtom

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#11 Re: Conies Dale Access
June 03, 2020, 09:31:38 am
Long old walk in if you find out the crag is busy! Bit of a shame about the old way in...

Ru

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#12 Re: Conies Dale Access
June 03, 2020, 09:58:21 am
Long old walk in if you find out the crag is busy! Bit of a shame about the old way in...

Although on the other hand, it's unlikely to be busy with that walk in.

lurcher

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#13 Re: Conies Dale Access
June 03, 2020, 10:10:09 am
Thanks Remus v useful

Bonjoy

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#14 Re: Conies Dale Access
June 03, 2020, 10:21:02 am
Long old walk in if you find out the crag is busy! Bit of a shame about the old way in...

Although on the other hand, it's unlikely to be busy with that walk in.
Assuming most people are approaching the same way, you should get a big hint it may be busy when you park up. The crag also has reasonable capacity.
I'm intending to give the right hand buttress a good clean (glue if needed) off a ladder this year. It's currently a bit loose and gnarly, but could have a bunch of good grade 6s. That would also help if you turned up an there were other parties.

remus

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#15 Re: Conies Dale Access
June 03, 2020, 12:30:05 pm
Long old walk in if you find out the crag is busy! Bit of a shame about the old way in...

The old way in was still 15-20mins for me so the new way didnt feel that different. Maybe Im just a slow walker though!

highrepute

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#16 Re: Conies Dale Access
June 03, 2020, 02:52:48 pm


Bonjoy

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Bonjoy

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#19 Re: Conies Dale Access
June 03, 2020, 11:08:47 pm
So after discussion with the access team the RAD has been updated and recommends the Oxlow approach.
The Eldon way in is still a decent option, but is longer and does require climbing over a wall/fence belonging to the farmer.
Either option is preferable to the old approach.

highrepute

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#20 Re: Conies Dale Access
June 04, 2020, 08:28:57 pm
So after discussion with the access team the RAD has been updated and recommends the Oxlow approach.
The Eldon way in is still a decent option, but is longer and does require climbing over a wall/fence belonging to the farmer.
Either option is preferable to the old approach.

Would that mean parking in Peak Forest still?

Bonjoy

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#21 Re: Conies Dale Access
June 04, 2020, 09:50:42 pm
It does. I suspect there is parking up Old Dam Lane, out of the village but I don't know for sure.

highrepute

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#22 Re: Conies Dale Access
June 05, 2020, 09:31:33 am
It does. I suspect there is parking up Old Dam Lane, out of the village but I don't know for sure.


This is mainly just some thoughts that are going round my head for discussion, I'm not sure what's best...

If there parking is it's not obvious on streetview. Parking up there might make one less conspicuous to the village but more so to the farm :shrug: .

I did in that past look into parking up there and decided it wasn't a good option but that was a while ago and perhaps I had a different criteria back then.

I've cycled up Oxlow Rake a few times and it does feel a bit like you are giong up the farm buildings front drive. But then we are perfectly entitled to do this so perhaps we should.

I haven't tried the Eldon hole approach but have been around there often. My feeling is it's a more discrete approach but then there's the fence to cross.

Looking as an OS map it's obvious, to me, why we're having these problems. Connies is in a very small patch of access land and I can imagine a farmer working that land would rather it wasn't access land and would not be doing anything to make access any easier.

Bonjoy

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#23 Re: Conies Dale Access
June 05, 2020, 11:39:39 am
Yes, it's a question of weighing up least worst options. I went through the same thought process.
That's why I was holding off giving a preferred approach until after I'd walked the Oxlow way. However, I spoke to Henry who is familiar with the Oxlow approach and I'm happy to defer to his knowledge. It is after all the only approach which doesn't involve trespass or wall crossing. We'll have to see how it goes and reassess if necessary.

Stuart Anderson

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#24 Re: Conies Dale Access
June 05, 2020, 01:05:20 pm
Just putting it out there in case it's not on people's radars - crossing field boundaries (walls fences etc) is permissable within the CROW Act as long as you don't damage them.


Bonjoy

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#25 Re: Conies Dale Access
June 05, 2020, 01:38:19 pm
I thought so, but there's only one spot where this is feasible coming in from Eldon and it is a bit precarious with a pad on even there.  It's tangled barbed wire merging into the broken end of a wall. Regular traffic would quite likely lead to the wall deteriorating. Plus it's easy for the farmer to claim climbers have made a mess when it's already a mess.

spidermonkey09

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#26 Re: Conies Dale Access
June 05, 2020, 02:23:27 pm
Just putting it out there in case it's not on people's radars - crossing field boundaries (walls fences etc) is permissable within the CROW Act as long as you don't damage them.

Thats interesting, thanks!

Stuart Anderson

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#27 Re: Conies Dale Access
June 05, 2020, 03:00:27 pm
Just putting it out there in case it's not on people's radars - crossing field boundaries (walls fences etc) is permissable within the CROW Act as long as you don't damage them.

Thats interesting, thanks!

file:///C:/Users/caver/Downloads/Ramblers%20Walking%20Access%20Rights%20Guide_FINAL.pdf

Page 3 (of all places) and link because I'm just some random off of the internet.

Doubt it'd do much to persuade the farmer of our 'rights'.

mrjonathanr

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#28 Re: Conies Dale Access
June 05, 2020, 04:08:54 pm
That file is on your hard drive, not t'internet :)

Stuart Anderson

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JoelWood

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#30 Re: Conies Dale Access
July 09, 2021, 01:28:49 pm
Sorry for dragging this one back up, but is the approach via Oxlow Rake still the recommended? (over Eldon Quarry)

If so would someone be able to advise on the Oxlow approach? RAD isn't that helpful? (Or at least to me anyway!)

Cheers

remus

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#31 Re: Conies Dale Access
July 09, 2021, 01:34:09 pm
Walk in map for the quarry approach https://www.google.com/maps/d/drive?state=%7B%22ids%22%3A%5B%221BFf1G36MRzTZCCvlIDoKdb5YADoNbl0z%22%5D%2C%22action%22%3A%22open%22%2C%22userId%22%3A%22116748199151597946098%22%7D&usp=sharing

Im not sure what the sketch is currently but this is the approach going past Eldon Quarry. It didnt feel that different time wise to the old approach and it's pretty discrete so I'd use it for now.

JoelWood

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#32 Re: Conies Dale Access
July 09, 2021, 01:47:17 pm
Cheers for the quick reply! So Eldon approach is now preferred over the oxlow rake approach?

Taken the eldon approach previously, can remember the big AROUND when you get to the top level of the quarry.

Just wondered if the oxlow approach is better as all access land? Or is it that you're still at risk of bumping into the landowner? (Unlike the eldon)

Bonjoy

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#33 Re: Conies Dale Access
July 09, 2021, 02:11:40 pm
Sorry, I still haven't tried the Oxlow approach.

JoelWood

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#34 Re: Conies Dale Access
July 09, 2021, 02:25:38 pm
Not a problem, I think I may just stick to the eldon approach due to the smaller chance of been seen by the farmer.

Peak forest looks a bit too quaint for parking, it would be obvious a climber has disappeared.

Don't mind the walk either way, just a shotgun welding farmer is best avoided  :lol:

Stabbsy

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#35 Re: Conies Dale Access
May 30, 2022, 08:23:38 pm
Just a heads up in case anyone is going here. I’ve been a few times this year, parking in Peak Forest and walking up Oxlow Rake and then contouring round the hillside once you reach the open country access boundary. It’s pretty straightforward as Jon mentions above and not much further than the original approach. Probably easier than the Eldon approach.

The only fence/wall you needed to cross was the one above the crag before skirting to the right of the crag to drop down. However, this had fallen in places and could just be stepped over. Last visit was at the weekend and this wall has been repaired and the fence reinstated - not easy to get over without damaging the wall. There’s also a new wall/fence in the dale, between the crag and wall parallel - NE of the crag. My guess is that it’s not trying to keep climbers out and just trying to control livestock. You can still get there by crossing one fence - the new one in the dale. Follow the wall above the crag to the NE end of the crag and skirt round the wall end before dropping down. The new bit of wall/barbed wire (with a bolt fixing it in place) can be easily stepped over.

 

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