[Smith42]

There is a small scree slope directly above the three routes at the left of main wall above Like a Rolling Stone.    Robin Proctor's Scar

I cannot emphasise enough how dangerous this is.

This scree is not evident from below or on the approach and can only be seen when you get to the belay and look over the top.  You do become aware of it though when missiles come flying past and nearly take out your belayer who luckily heard my warning and jumped out of the way.

I am struggling to understand why these routes were bolted knowing this lurking danger is there.  I am not adverse to risk taking (as my ukc logbook and general life will bear witness!) but I expect fellow climbers who equip routes to have a minimum duty of care to those that follow.

That is i would expect climbers who bolt routes to either remove the hidden danger, not bolt a route there or make it clear that there is a hidden risk above what can be normally assessed.

I am not suggesting the whole crag has a loose scree slope above but some areas are seriously bad so at the moment it is a little like Russian roulette. 

Maybe the local BMC rep can investigate the rest of the crag for scree risk and then put some warning signs below the potential fall zones so at least people know there is an additional hazard. (Obviously with usual caveats that all climbing is dangerous etc) 

Or maybe I v just become institutionalised by ten weeks of lock down and i need some omnipotent one to tell me when i am safe.

[Will Hunt]

Is that affecting Decline and Fall, Like a Rolling Stone, and The Big Picture, Paul?

[teestub]

I am not suggesting the whole crag is a loose scree slope

I think it was before they used a few cubic metres of glue!

[tomtom]

Is that affecting Decline and Fall, Like a Rolling Stone

Could there be a clue in the route names? hmm...

[Smith42]

Yes directly above those three routes, but also affecting the start of t'Inglesportina Wall as it starts up The Big Picture and traverses off right.

The slope above the t'Inglesportina Wall belay was normal grass bank without any obvious loose stuff so basically anything west of the little tree at the base looked to be in the danger zone.

I think even a wooden post/warning sign at the tree would potentially save someone a nasty injury or at least allow them to make an informed decision.

[Will Hunt]

Is it always like this or has it built up over time? Just seems odd that none of the affected routes have comments in the UKC database. Normally the UKC lot are up in arms about this sort of stuff.

[webbo]

It will be Mr and Mrs Outraged of Clapham pilling the rocks up to discourage climbing at the moment.

[spidermonkey09]

Is that affecting Decline and Fall, Like a Rolling Stone

Could there be a clue in the route names? hmm...

A lot of the routes there have Bob Dylan references in the names: Rolling Stone, Wheels on Fire, Forever Young, so I doubt it.

Paul, I commented on UKC and appreciate you are trying to protect people but I do feel the tone of imminent death is a bit excessive. From UKC: "This should of (sic) been checked out when bolting as it's a death waiting to happen. It's Russian roulette which other climbs here may be affected. "

The routes were bolted back in 2012 and have been happily climbed on since. I have noticed nothing untoward on my visits including a brief one just prior to lockdown, but obviously things may have changed. My memory is that quite a few of the routes "top out" onto a ledge with a lower off placed high to avoid rubbing on the edge. Obviously stones etc may collect on these ledges which I suspect may be partially what you are referring to?

Anyway, as I say I appreciate you're trying to keep people safe but i also suspect it isnt quite the death trap you've presented it as based on my visits there. Certainly questioning whether the routes should have been bolted is a bit off, Dave, Nigel and Paul have bolted loads of great routes all over Yorkshire and their judgement is normally bang on. Im sure the BMC will sort something in due course (meeting monday should you wish to join on zoom) feel free to hang a warning off the tree in the meantime and then people can make an informed decision as you say.

[Smith42]

Hi, in hindsight, i dont see how this loose stuff could of been in place when the routes were equipped. And there didnt seem to be much impact at the base of the crag, so maybe it is a new build up that has just happened over the wet winter or very dry spring. 

I dont know, there is probably no more than a few tonnes of loose stuff from what i saw, so it is not extensive in a geological sense but i still wouldn't want to see it coming down on anyone when it is an avoidable accident.

I would expect people putting up new routes to clear as much loose rock/danger as possible at the time of equipping.  Assuming this clearing was done, and the loose rock is a recent event because of the weather, sheep, or whatever, it is likely to of happened or will happen elsewhere again on this slope at some point.  Going to a crag where there is the risk of random hidden dangers (that are avoidable if i had more information) is a gamble in my book. 

Please feel free to do what you want with my opinion, i'm just putting it out there.   

PS i have been climbing over thirty five years on yorkshire limestone, (and Alps, Scotland, Wales, Lakes etc) and this freaked me out a little.  Okay a lot.