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Climbers that are “magicians” split from Ned Fee thread (Read 2427 times)

JamieG

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I think the most 'floaty' climber I've ever watched is Tyler Landman. It definitely doesn't seem like gravity applies the same to him.

Dac

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I think the true magicians are those who can look at a route or problem and see a solution that no one else can. For me the example that springs the mind is that of Marc Le Menestrel climbing Brad Pitt. (This is all dimly recalled from climbing magazine articles about 20 years ago).

So Brad Pitt, Stanage plantation, dismissed as a problem for the next generation by Ben Moon, and first climbed by Jason Myers via a wildly powerful and dynamic sequence. Given B13 (so about 8a+ in sensible money) in the first rockfax bouldering guide.

Marc Le Menestrel finds himself at Stanage on a visit to the UK and some random local is good enough to show him round. He is pointed at the then unrepeated Brad Pitt; at the time a contender for hardest problem on grit. He has a go via the original sequence, nothing happening, he has a think, on goes the now obligatory high heel, does it second go! This is of course now considered the normal beta, and the current rockfax guide gives it 7c.

That to me is the mark of the magician, many of the peaks brightest and best had tried that problem, with only Mr Myers succeeding, then along comes a magician, sees what no one else has, and everyone is left scratching there heads and wondering how that was done.

(Oh and I think he did Deliverance statically the same day, which isn’t too shabby.)

Doylo

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After Myers, Moony had done Brad Pit with the toe on (see Hard Grit) at 8A I think. Then Le Menestrel stuck his heel on and pissed it.

Ru

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After Myers, Moony had done Brad Pit with the toe on (see Hard Grit) at 8A I think. Then Le Menestrel stuck his heel on and pissed it.

Myres jumped it, then Le Menestrel did it (gastoning the sidepull with his right hand then putting a left toe on), then Moony repeated it the same way, then Darren Stevenson did it the modern way (left heel on, left hand up to side pull). At this point it was still considered 8a. I did maybe the 10th-ish ascent in 1998(?), although it started getting done quite a lot after that, so who knows. It gradually came down to 7c+ and then by the time I wrote the guide in about 2003/4, 7c was being bandied about. I thought it was the same grade as Berezina and it climbed similarly (although in mirror) so opted for 7c in the guide.

I think the "random local" that showed him round was Stu.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2020, 01:58:52 pm by Ru »

moose

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There are some people who seem to be neurally wired in a way that makes them super co-ordinated that isn’t something that’s learned. I first noticed it at school with someone who was skinny with little muscle who was great at tennis and despite his unassuming physique somehow could effortlessly throw the javelin further than anybody else.

The middle-weight boxer Genedy Golovkin was like that.  He'd break ribs and score spectacular KOs with punches that appeared casual, almost effortless. Some sort of leverage / kinetic chain effect I think. Every muscle from the toes upward contributing to the punch, so there appeared to be little effort when you looked at the arms. Maybe a natural gift but it seems relatively common in boxers from the former Soviet Union, so maybe relentless technique drilling from an early age is as important as natural  talent.

Doylo

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After Myers, Moony had done Brad Pit with the toe on (see Hard Grit) at 8A I think. Then Le Menestrel stuck his heel on and pissed it.

Myres jumped it, then Le Menestrel did it (gastoning the sidepull with his right hand then putting a left toe on), then Moony repeated it the same way, then Darren Stevenson did it the modern way (left heel on, left hand up to side pull). At this point it was still considered 8a. I did maybe the 10th-ish ascent in 1998(?), although it started getting done quite a lot after that, so who knows. It gradually came down to 7c+ and then by the time I wrote the guide in about 2003/4, 7c was being bandied about. I thought it was the same grade as Berezina and it climbed similarly (although in mirror) so opted for 7c in the guide.

I think the "random local" that showed him round was Stu.

So Darren Stevenson is the true magician!

Will Hunt

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I've seen a video of Tom Peckitt falling off Beast of the Field a few times before doing it. I flashed it by using a toe instead of a heel. Am I a magician or does it only work if you use a heel instead of a toe? Thanks in advance.

SA Chris

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Doylo

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When I see Ned/Robins/Jordan make their heels stick to anything to take their weight on a hard move I always think what an advantage it must be.

duncan

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Per his thread, John Allen. 

An afternoon with the Lattice data set could give an estimate of how much of climbing ability is explained by "dark matter" versus boring stuff like how much weight your fingers can take. 

I recall a study - which is proving elusive - which developed and tested a model containing a number of physical parameters like finger strength and endurance. They used the model with good standard climbers (>8b+, at a guess) and those operating at a more modest grades (7s?). If I recall correctly, the model worked better at the higher grades with ~70% of performance explained by it, than at middle grades where only ~30% of performance was explained.

If these two points represent a trend, being a magician may convey more benefit at 'lower' standards. Some of the examples given here (Crispin, Johnny Dawes, Marc Le Menestrel) seem to confirm this, although they are possibly a reflection of the demographic of this forum!


Paul B

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When I see Ned/Robins/Jordan make their heels stick

Have you seen his heel spur? He's possibly the only human upon which an Anasazi VCS has no void.

Doylo

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When I see Ned/Robins/Jordan make their heels stick

Have you seen his heel spur? He's possibly the only human upon which an Anasazi VCS has no void.

Jordan literally has a heel spur on his boreals!   My appreciation for Robins ‘Golden Heels’ was crystallised when he changed from 5.10 sky-hook-heels to Evolves and he could still do the dark magic. That’s the sign of the mastery - when you can do it in shoes that don’t give an advantage.

finbarrr

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those who watch the international bouldering comps will mostly that the current master fo floaty style is Tamoa Narasaki.
i will link to a video, but of course you have to watch the other competitors struggle on some of the problems to realise how outstanding he is.



and for those who think comp climbing doesn't count; when he does go outside he flashes 8B+


Sasquatch

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I think part of being a magician has to do with era and style.  Part of why I mentioned Sharma as a magician was his willingness and ability to break all of the "norms" and climb in a way that seemed outlandish at the time and quickly become the top of the game.  I'd imagine that strength pays a role, but it feels to me like a step beyond that.  There's something about the way they generate movement, find and see/feel body positions, and the overall coordination involved. 

Finbarr mentioned Tomoa, and I'd agree.  I mentioned Janja, and I'd stand by that one. 

SA Chris

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Totally agree on Janja, on most days she makes it look effortless, although sometimes she seems to have a bit of a wobble.

Fiend

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So floaty is partly being really fucking strong and partly being springy i.e. really fucking strong in your legs. Sorta Malc-Dawes hybrid.

grimer

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The funny thing about this being split from the Ned thread is that I have saw Antoine le Menestrel, at least twice, on Facebook, talk about watching the recreation of hi solo of Revelations, climbed in the folm by Ned, dressed like AlM. AlM says something like " And I am seeing myself climb thees and it is eenteresting but then I am thinking, 'I thought i climbed it well, not static and unsure like thees,' then realising later it was not meee."

I guess he considers himself a magician.

grimer

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I think the true magicians are those who can look at a route or problem and see a solution that no one else can. For me the example that springs the mind is that of Marc Le Menestrel climbing Brad Pitt. (This is all dimly recalled from climbing magazine articles about 20 years ago).


I interviewed MleM about this for On The Edge. It was really inspiring talking to him. I think it appeared in the issue with Moon and his pof doing it on the cover.

mrjonathanr

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The funny thing about this being split from the Ned thread is that I have saw Antoine le Menestrel, at least twice, on Facebook, talk about watching the recreation of hi solo of Revelations, climbed in the folm by Ned, dressed like AlM. AlM says something like " And I am seeing myself climb thees and it is eenteresting but then I am thinking, 'I thought i climbed it well, not static and unsure like thees,' then realising later it was not meee."

I guess he considers himself a magician.

Brilliant  :lol:

I have climbed with him though; he's a magician, for sure.

Wil

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I always felt that the "magicians" had a very quiet mind. Obviously theres a technique/strength component to floating up these things, but the key thing that sets them apart is being able to apply those things with a lack of doubt that allows them to move to fluidly.

I'm a terribly hesitant climber which is why I'm no good at children's parties.

mrjonathanr

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You don't move fast enough for the cakes?

SA Chris

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you get burned off by children at parties at the climbing wall?

mrjonathanr

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Every mono's a jug when you are under 4'6"

 

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