[Will Hunt]

Just wanted to check that I've got the best beta for this and I've not missed any tricks to make it as easy as possible.

Steady away up to the rest on the flakes next to the ledge (not that you need a rest at that point). Extend the clip above the rest so you can clip it comfortably from the rest.

Climb out and get LF high, RH into the big undercut crack thing, RF high, and bring LH up and over to get the 'orrible vertical crack. RH goes low and right to steady before a big-ish move to the holds that lead into the big roof flake.

Does anybody extend the clips that you do during this bit and when you're on the big roof flake? They feel fine to clip as short draws but haven't tried them long.

Some people seem to shake for quite a while when on the roof flake. Are they beasts or am I missing something? This doesn't feel like a position you can get anything back in.

From there I put a foot way out left, stretch left to gain a low, flat sidepull thing, then put foot onto the roof flake and drop a knee. You then spin and catch the undercut in the roof crack. Slap over with the LH to get the good crimp over the lip, RH next to it, throw to flakey thing, LF up and into undercut, stand up over lip.

I've seen people do this last bit differently. Some people go off the flake straight into the undercut on the crack as a backhanded gaston. I don't think I've tried that. Easier? Any other ways of doing this section?

[remus]

It's a year since I was on it last so my memory is a bit rusty.

Steady away up to the rest on the flakes next to the ledge (not that you need a rest at that point). Extend the clip above the rest so you can clip it comfortably from the rest.

Climb out and get LF high, RH into the big undercut crack thing, RF high, and bring LH up and over to get the 'orrible vertical crack. RH goes low and right to steady before a big-ish move to the holds that lead into the big roof flake.

All sounds about right.

Does anybody extend the clips that you do during this bit and when you're on the big roof flake? They feel fine to clip as short draws but haven't tried them long.

Seemed fine as short draws to me.

Some people seem to shake for quite a while when on the roof flake. Are they beasts or am I missing something? This doesn't feel like a position you can get anything back in.

I thought this rest was pretty good, and felt pretty important to get something back here so I was fresh for the top crux section. Are you milking the left heel to get some weight off your arms?

I only know you from your posts on here so this might be way off the mark, but it seems like you're mainly a boulderer so it could be that you just need a bit more fitness to make this rest work. 2 months of lockdown board training doesn't do much for your aerobic capacity!

I've seen people do this last bit differently. Some people go off the flake straight into the undercut on the crack as a backhanded gaston. I don't think I've tried that. Easier?

That was the way for me. Pretty sure I also went RF on to a high bit of the flak after getting the crimps which I think helped quite a bit, seemed a lot more stable to me than jamming LF in the undercut crack and going off the crimps.

[Will Hunt]

Thanks Remus.

Some people seem to shake for quite a while when on the roof flake. Are they beasts or am I missing something? This doesn't feel like a position you can get anything back in.

I thought this rest was pretty good, and felt pretty important to get something back here so I was fresh for the top crux section. Are you milking the left heel to get some weight off your arms?

I only know you from your posts on here so this might be way off the mark, but it seems like you're mainly a boulderer so it could be that you just need a bit more fitness to make this rest work. 2 months of lockdown board training doesn't do much for your aerobic capacity!

I suppose I am mainly a boulderer so you're probably spot on about having shit recovery.
That roof flake has got three bits to it I think. There's the first bit that you go to after moving off the rest, then the big chunky bit that you do the next moves off, then there's a good bit a bit further on which you don't actually need to use on Sunset Boulevard but is a bit more positive. When I pause there I'm on the middle bit and I tend to have my feet low on the obvious, good, polished bit below. I don't feel like putting my heel up helps here but maybe I need to experiment with it more to try and make something work. Do people go to the further bit of the flake to get the best bit of it and rest off that? It seemed like it would just add unnecessary faff and moves going to and from it.

I've seen people do this last bit differently. Some people go off the flake straight into the undercut on the crack as a backhanded gaston. I don't think I've tried that. Easier?

That was the way for me. Pretty sure I also went RF on to a high bit of the flak after getting the crimps which I think helped quite a bit, seemed a lot more stable to me than jamming LF in the undercut crack and going off the crimps.

Interesting. I'll try the alternative sequence next time I'm there. There's a good foothold just above the roof flake that I can use to do the next move off the lip crimps, so can fortunately avoid any shenanigans trying to use the roof crack as a foothold!

[remus]

I suppose I am mainly a boulderer so you're probably spot on about having shit recovery.
That roof flake has got three bits to it I think. There's the first bit that you go to after moving off the rest, then the big chunky bit that you do the next moves off, then there's a good bit a bit further on which you don't actually need to use on Sunset Boulevard but is a bit more positive. When I pause there I'm on the middle bit and I tend to have my feet low on the obvious, good, polished bit below. I don't feel like putting my heel up helps here but maybe I need to experiment with it more to try and make something work. Do people go to the further bit of the flake to get the best bit of it and rest off that? It seemed like it would just add unnecessary faff and moves going to and from it.

I just used the middle bit of the flake. Maybe with a brief diversion to the higher bit for a bit of variety in shakeouts? Definitely worth playing with the heel imo, took a good bit of weight off my arms and made the rest a lot better.

[spidermonkey09]

The words 'unnecessary faff and moves' are an interesting insight into your approach I think. Definitely a boulderers mindset of 'just get to the chain as quickly as possible.' You're obviously not wrong that stripping out extra moves is key but for me if the extra move or two is to a significantly better rest thats definitely the way to go.

Your beta for Boulevard sounds about right to me from one session last year. Like Remus, I felt the need to rest on the flake. I didnt tick it though!

Incidentally, was the bowl busy?

[Will Hunt]

The words 'unnecessary faff and moves' are an interesting insight into your approach I think. Definitely a boulderers mindset of 'just get to the chain as quickly as possible.' You're obviously not wrong that stripping out extra moves is key but for me if the extra move or two is to a significantly better rest thats definitely the way to go.

Your beta for Boulevard sounds about right to me from one session last year. Like Remus, I felt the need to rest on the flake. I didnt tick it though!

Incidentally, was the bowl busy?

Us and two other teams.

I think the thing about rests is that it's hard for me to tell whether I'm actually recovering sometimes. I'm not sure if anyone else finds this. The finger flakes in the proper rest on Sunset are OK and you can have a shake, but I don't know whether I'm actually getting less tired on net. I very much feel like I'm getting nothing back on the roof flake. Maybe I just need to play around with some body positions and footholds to get something that will work.

Anyway, my skin is a complete mess from it, so I'll probably leave it a couple of weeks.

[spidermonkey09]

The words 'unnecessary faff and moves' are an interesting insight into your approach I think. Definitely a boulderers mindset of 'just get to the chain as quickly as possible.' You're obviously not wrong that stripping out extra moves is key but for me if the extra move or two is to a significantly better rest thats definitely the way to go.

Your beta for Boulevard sounds about right to me from one session last year. Like Remus, I felt the need to rest on the flake. I didnt tick it though!

Incidentally, was the bowl busy?

Us and two other teams.

I think the thing about rests is that it's hard for me to tell whether I'm actually recovering sometimes. I'm not sure if anyone else finds this. The finger flakes in the proper rest on Sunset are OK and you can have a shake, but I don't know whether I'm actually getting less tired on net. I very much feel like I'm getting nothing back on the roof flake. Maybe I just need to play around with some body positions and footholds to get something that will work.

Anyway, my skin is a complete mess from it, so I'll probably leave it a couple of weeks.

To me that indicates you're just unfit on that steep terrain. Fitness comes quickly though. I know exactly what you mean about feeling youre getting nothing back. I think that feeling is particularly common on steep terrain and the Bowl is reasonably unique for the uk in that its steep with big holds. when its closer to vert its much easier for me to recover as thats a much more common style in the UK. I imagine you would find the style in Rodellar really hard to start with, I definitely did!

 I find working out whether you can and can't rest the most satisfying bit of working a route; as Al Wilson likes to sagely say: "work the rests...its the rests that get you up the route..."

[Rob F]

... this Guidebook's gonna be a long read if it's going into this depth of information for every single route.

[Will Hunt]

... this Guidebook's gonna be a long read if it's going into this depth of information for every single route.

We'll just put a QR code in that links to this thread.


Is that such a bad idea... 

[Rob F]

I apologise unreservedly for my prior flippant remark.

It is actually quite refreshing to see some content actually discussing climbing on UKB and should be encouraged.

Now, how is Will going to practice resting on his 8 ft high home board???

Quite obviously within this lockdown he's been doing too much time practicing climbing and not enough practicing resting - which is why he's getting pumped...

[moose]

Because I am a truly tragic person, I have a sequence written down for this.  It probably won't make much sense if you are not (a) there (b) me, but here it is (no idea why I wrote it down to be honest as I did it in a session).

Start:
Get RH gaston in upper slot; press out LH to white tufa; match white tufa; LH to jug undercut at top of next tufa; cross RH to tufa undercut; long LH move to crimp on slopey shelf; get a RF heel-toe in the tufa jugs; RH to divoted part of slopey shelf; cut loose and smear up RF and LF to high ticked foothold; rock up onto LF and LH to pocketed break; [clip 3]; go to flake jug and rest. Can [clip 4] and return to rest.

To the rail:.
With [clip 4] pre-clipped; RH crimp; cross LH through to pocket in break; RH to pocket on rib; RH to pinch undercut slot; walk feet up ramp and roll over LH to slot; R toe on top of ramp and rock over, RH crimpy intermediate, go again  to pocket in rail; cross over LH to next flaky hold in rail; RH next flakey hold [clip 5]. Big throw to jugs, match, get L-heel on rail and rest[clip 6].

Top out:
Press out from jugs, LH side pull in upper break, remove L-heel from rail and place LF on big triangular smear further along down the rail; RF on rail and drop knee, RH undercut.in upper break; LH sloper on lip; readjust feet and bump LH along to crimp on lip, RH to crimp alongside it; [clip 7]. walk feet up to RF is at highest rubbered bit of ramp, LF into break, around 6" left of undercut; long RH to good crimp; RF to foothold in  break immediately below undercut and LF over lip onto obvious foothold; rock up onto LF; LH to undercut; RH intermediate crimp then jugs and [belay].

[Will Hunt]

Top out:
Press out from jugs, LH side pull in upper break

Where would we be without you, Moose? That all sounds right. Just to check, this is the Gaston press beta, yes?

Also, no way I'll be clipping the penultimate bolt on redpoint. A dogging bolt if ever there was one!

[moose]

I can't actually remember what I did - but if I wrote "press" it'll be a shouldery move of some description.  I didn't really work my sequence and investigate the alternatives to be honest - clip-sticked it and then got it on my second "ground up" style go.

[Rob F]

Soooo much pressure on Will getting this next tie in!!!

Couldn't be doing with having another 10+ years saga on here...

[Rob F]

UKB May 2030: "Anyone use a 25cm qd on the 5th clip or is it ok to use a 20cm???"

[Fiend]

1. Cruise 7B/C

2. Piss up route easily

3. Question??

[Fiend]

Actually I've always wanted to look at this myself, mostly due to the photo in the Choadfax which makes it look fairly distinctive for limestone. Not sure if I'll get enough power-to-weight back to give it a go this year....but I might not get enough trad confidence back to not give it a go 

[moose]

Actually I've always wanted to look at this myself, mostly due to the photo in the Choadfax which makes it look fairly distinctive for limestone. Not sure if I'll get enough power-to-weight back to give it a go this year....but I might not get enough trad confidence back to not give it a go 

Divine Brown next to it is brilliant - really gymnastic, fun climbing.  The link-up where you finish up Sunset is worthwhile too. YMMV though - I did Sunset third tie-in, Divine Brown second tie-in... but Illywacker which is meant to be a grade or so easier, took me two sessions (mind you, it's lost a hold at the finish, so maybe an upgrade is due).

[thekettle]

Will your beta sounds good to me, and recovering on the rail is a fitness thing I reckon. Most can just about get away with not resting on Sunset if you sprint but not so much on Divine Brown next door, which has a beefier top crux.
The only different beta I know of that may be worth a try is throwing a L heel over the lip and rocking up onto it as you head over the lip. I've done it with and without the high left heel and find it a bit less powerful over the lip with the heel on.
If you want bouldery routes at the same grade then Jorjas Connection (soft), One Hand Slapping and We Come In Fear (not soft) require less fitness and more burl.

[Coops_13]

If you want bouldery routes at the same grade then Jorjas Connection (soft), One Hand Slapping and We Come In Fear (not soft) require less fitness and more burl.

Ah yes Jorjas Connection is fun, my one and only *ahem* 7c...

[Rob F]

No one delete this thread!!!!!

[Ru]

Anyone know how Giggleswick is doing after the rain seepage wise? Specifically interested in Militia at the G-Spot, but as it's unlikely anyone has been there recently I will assume it's similar to the Hollywood bowl.

[Will Hunt]

Anyone know how Giggleswick is doing after the rain seepage wise? Specifically interested in Militia at the G-Spot, but as it's unlikely anyone has been there recently I will assume it's similar to the Hollywood bowl.

The Bowl was all dry today. Seepage might be on it's way but hard to tell. The ground will have been very very dry before the recent rain.

[teestub]

Can only assume you smashed it out the park first redpoint after getting like 10 posts of advice Will!

[Will Hunt]

No-one snatches defeat from the jaws of victory like me.

[Footwork]

Anyone know how Giggleswick is doing after the rain seepage wise? Specifically interested in Militia at the G-Spot, but as it's unlikely anyone has been there recently I will assume it's similar to the Hollywood bowl.

The Bowl was all dry today. Seepage might be on it's way but hard to tell. The ground will have been very very dry before the recent rain.

The bowl was also totally rammed today.

[Will Hunt]

Just in case anybody is looking here in the future, a few additional refinements which made a big difference.

When reaching out left from the roof flake to the sidepull there is often a tickmark on said sidepull. It's too low. You want to take the sidepull at its top where there is currently a rattle-stone.

When doing this reach out left, you can either do it with the heel on the flake or with your toe way out left. The former makes it easier to get the sidepull, but you do then have to adjust your foot immediately afterwards. The latter is more draining to start and more tensiony/corey because you're throwing your toe such a long way out left but you'll then move through the next bit slightly quicker. We opted to take the sidepull with heel in the flake.

On Sunday I had three redpoint goes falling off trying to get my left hand to good crimp over the lip. I was taking the poor intermediate crimp over the lip, shuffling my RF up the roof flake, then going again for the good crimp but coming up short. It was vital to also shuffle my LF up the roof flake in order to make the reach. An alternative which also works is to put in a drop knee for the left foot. I didn't do this myself but this makes it work for the shorter climber.

Once established on the lip crimps, the next move is a RH stab into a thin horizontal crack formed by a flake. This requires a reasonable amount of accuracy and I found it pretty vital on RP to place LF in the roof crack to get a more stable body position.

[thekettle]

Detailed! 
@ Ru, Militia has been cleaned and climbed on a fair bit this year (not by me) so should be in good nick if it's not seeping.

[Rob F]

Well done Will. Looking forwards to reading more about it on Stretching Club this week.

Psyched for this new guidebook now. Can sense the attention to detail - far beyond the line on a photograph advocated by other guidebook authors...

[SA Chris]

Downgrade time? Good going Will.

[dunnyg]

Psyched for this new guidebook now. Can sense the attention to detail - far beyond the line on a photograph advocated by other guidebook authors...

Imagine hard rock, but for every route in Yorkshire. I heard volumes 1-495 (covering giggleswick and robin proctors) will be released in June 2021, would you care to confirm or deny these rumors will?

[Rob F]

May I be so bold as to make a suggestion?

For the 2500 pages devoted to Malham & Kilnsey (inc 200 pages on the history of the Oak, naming and shaming who applied each tick mark)- will it be possible to have an official "Guidebook Grade", then alongside have a blank box labelled "Personal Grade" ???