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Coronavirus Covid-19: Schools opening (Read 24754 times)

tomtom

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Coronavirus Covid-19: Schools opening
May 15, 2020, 09:16:15 am
Our primary school (ours is in nursery there) has just sent us the following - wondered what others have heard (or not) and whether you'd send yours back. We're a bit torn. It would be great for him to see his friends again - and make the gap (time) between now and when he starts reception in Sept less of a gulf (so he remembers what happens!). But obviously concerned for him and ourselves WRT the virus...

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We hope to have Year 6 children back in school from June 1st.  We are endeavouring to reduce the residual risk of infection spreading but we know that we cannot eliminate it completely.  Measures we will take will include - but are not limited to - the following:  

 

Initially we will halve the year group and have them attending alternate weeks, Monday to Thursday only. We will send timings in due course and will work around key worker childcare provision so that the numbers of people arriving on site at any one time are  kept low. 

Teachers will be working on Fridays but will use the time for class planning, preparation and assessment and also to plan home learning and keep in touch with children whose parents do not wish them to return. 

The children will be taught in groups of no more than 15 as per the government's own advice. They will remain in the same room for all lessons, with the same teacher, all week.  In effect this creates a restricted 'bubble' and if one of the group were to contract coronavirus, all members of that same group would be required to self-isolate for 14 days.  

Children will have a personal supply of stationery so that they don't have to share resources with others.  

Classrooms and toilet areas will be cleaned each lunchtime in readiness for the afternoon session, and again at the end of each day when children and staff have left.  

Classrooms will have plentiful supplies of sanitiser and tissues. 

Lunchtimes will be staggered and we will ask children to observe social distancing when queuing, using markers on the floor.  

Ensuring social distancing during playtimes will be more difficult but we will remind children about it at regular intervals.  However, we cannot guarantee that they won't come into closer contact with each other whilst playing.

Parents/carers will not be able to enter the school site to reduce the amount of adult to adult contact.

 

We will monitor how all this works and may in due course open in a similar way for Year 1.

 

We are desperate to have the children back in school but their return needs to be managed as safely as possible and I believe that a staged approach to the task is needed.

 

mrjonathanr

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Is it an academy TT?

This will create a lot of discussion between unions and gov before June 1, as recommended practice regarding safety in schools does not appear to be the same as in similarly busy contexts.
This seems an environment where the virus will be easily transmitted, as likelihood of infection is exposure plus time:
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The children will be taught in groups of no more than 15 as per the government's own advice. They will remain in the same room for all lessons, with the same teacher, all week.  In effect this creates a restricted 'bubble' and if one of the group were to contract coronavirus, all members of that same group would be required to self-isolate for 14 days.   

Wil

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That seems a pragmatic response. The government badly need to show their working on this though. It seems to me that social distancing isn't going to be very effective when people are in the same room for the whole day.

I was quite lucky in my last school to be teaching in a new building with relatively large classrooms. Even in those it wouldn't have been possible to have 15 pupils and a teacher and maintain 2m distance. Primary schools often have a slightly more open layout which might make that easier. Does it really matter though?

I think it's going to be a very difficult shift from telling the public that they should all be keeping their distance, to telling them that actually some limited contact is ok. People like to deal in absolutes and most won't want to recognise that contact with the same dozen or so people, maintaining distancing whenever practical actually might be relatively low risk for most and limit transmission at a population level.

I suspect a large number of parents simply won't send the kids back until the Autumn.

Davo

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Ours is in year 1 and we have had the same letter. Personally I think it is good . He needs to go back to socialise and meet friends etc. Home schooling him is good for his actual learning but not so great for learning to get along with other kids etc. Waiting till September just seems to long to me for children of that age to wait. Understand that others may feel differently and I think some from his class may not get sent back by parents.

In terms of teachers I have a lot of sympathy and few answers.

Oldmanmatt

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Our primary academy trust (a CoE backed trust) sent a survey instead.
Question one was “would you let your children return, if we did open?”
(Our two youngest are year six).

We said no.

We’ll just pull them and home school.

Apparently, this was the large majority position by respondents.

One of the Secondary schools, hasn’t issued anything to us yet, but N⁰ 2 is year eight, so not likely to be asked back this academic year.

N⁰1, the Grammar girl, has had superb on line tuition from her school. She’s a year 10, but was entered for Statistics this season (so they can squeeze in an extra GCSE for the top set kids), which will be issued on prior performance/mock result (she got an 8 in the mock). Her school have intimated that they are taking the face-to-face instruction to mean virtual classroom and not a return to the school building. At the moment they’re using Google classroom. It’s live and the teachers are contactable during lessons by pm or a class wide message. They’ve been in regular contact with me too. Two or three times a week, I get reports on progress, suggestions for anything that’s causing confusion, etc. Plenty of “Your child submitted an excellent piece of work for x,y & z” .

We chatted, at appropriate distance, to the neighbours last night. Their  eldest is at the girls Grammar, y10 (mine is in the Spires, which is mixed. Both coed and ability (they have a selective Grammar and non-selective, housed on the same campus). It sounds like that school has a similar set up to Spires (their youngest is y8 at Spires, so they’re clear on that).
But, they were equally adamant that they will not let them return. He’s a “one man band” company director (advertising) and she’s a civil servant (working from home). They’d rather take the hit, financially, of him not resuming, than send their kids to school. Especially in the light of their current system working so well. 

Actually, I meant to say, that your financial position is going to play into your decision here.
We, and the neighbours, might take a hit by not sending the kids back, but we can take that hit. Plenty of people won’t be able to, if they have to return to work, outside their home.

Also, socialisation isn’t so bad when you have four kids. Plus, the amount of time they spend on WhatsApp video calls to their mates, the amount of time they spend playing online (they have a FIFA league going on the PS4 with their FB academy team mates. The Year six kids, collaborated to make a cool video https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=A4I4ZMJWHR4 between them, for instance).
« Last Edit: May 15, 2020, 10:30:03 am by Oldmanmatt »

rginns

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It's very unlikely well be sending our kids back, for what will be a maximum if a month (Nursery, Y2 and Y4). I can't imagine there will be any effective distancing and we're able to work from home etc.

This is not about the kids ( not a single mention of education in the government guidelines) or health, but about the economy and childcare and getting people into work. Giving schools the same notice as the general population shows the contempt they have for the education system. Another failure from our illustrious leaders, if it even happens

galpinos

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We are in the "not sure what to do" category. My eldest (Yr 2) really wants to get back to school and to see her friends, she really doesn't like zoom/facetime and is missing real face to face contact. The youngest (Nursery) is "the issue" as we had a shielding letter for her due to her un diagnosed respiratory issue. On the face of it, we shouldn't send her in, but in reality, the biggest infection risk is her mum/my wife, not other kids, and having spoken to her consultant, the kids in ICU for Covid at the moment are all "healthy", i.e. no underlying health issues so there is no reason why she would be more at risk then my eldest and the numbers are very small and the mortality rate/long term issues/complications rate is vanishingly small.

I feel for the teachers. The school have been great through all this and their communications have been spot on.

mrjonathanr

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It seems to me that social distancing isn't going to be very effective when people are in the same room for the whole day.

I was quite lucky in my last school to be teaching in a new building with relatively large classrooms. Even in those it wouldn't have been possible to have 15 pupils and a teacher and maintain 2m distance.

Agreed. I think there is a danger of focusing on the rule rather than the mechanism. 2m rules work well outside where spittle falls to ground and freely moving air disperses aerosols. Aerosols from others' breath will circulate in a confined space. In a very big space for a short duration, you'd maybe not inhale much from an asymptomatic carrier. In a smaller space such as a classroom, confined for durations of  >5 hours a day, I suspect the risk of infection would be very high indeed. I can see some small mitigation from opening doors and windows, but not enough to render it safe. And remember, no PPE.

My Y5 daughter is desperate to go back to school, perhaps the gov will detail the logistics of making this safe in due course. Have not seen it yet. Until/unless they do, can't see Joe Anderson backing down and letting Liverpool LA schools reopen.

Wil

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Giving schools the same notice as the general population shows the contempt they have for the education system.

I checked my cynicism on saying this, but it's true. There appears to have been limited or no involvement of schools, school leaders and teachers in determining what reopening will actually look like and what alternatives might work. Every time a minister or MP says something about schools it seems that they've never actually been in a state school, let alone have any understanding of how they function or how the completely inadequate funding affects day to day schooling. This is very much about childcare and not education.

tomtom

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MrJ - yes its an academy. A small chain (of convenience?) of three primaries (one of which is in Hull (shrugs) and the best performing in the city!)...

OMM - there was a simple survey (would you send your kid back yes/no) at the end of the email...

I think alot depends on how its structured... Our (only) child is in Nursery there which is large (80-90 kids) split into 4 groups - that normally had semi structured time in their groups but can also roam around - go outside etc.. etc.. Its a separate building and separate play area etc..

If they only invite one group in per day (which might be how I would structure it) or one group per week (or something like that) then I'm fairly comfortable with that... The structure of the building is that in nice weather the wall of bifolds are open and the outdoors is as much a part as the classroom.

Maybe its more important for ours to get some socialising in (only child) as the poor think has only had his parents to play with for 8 weeks. Which he's OK with - but I wish he could have a more diverse set of influences. Not really worried about him missing out on learning skills (he's not yet 4 - and decent with numbers and letters) at the moment. More a social/for his sanity thing.

Final point - the letter said 'until september' implying this could carry on all summer...

Final final point - much sympathy for teachers and their managers/headteachers trying to figure out how to walk this tightrope... with (I suspect) fuck all consultation or support.

Davo

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It's very unlikely well be sending our kids back, for what will be a maximum if a month (Nursery, Y2 and Y4). I can't imagine there will be any effective distancing and we're able to work from home etc.

This is not about the kids ( not a single mention of education in the government guidelines) or health, but about the economy and childcare and getting people into work. Giving schools the same notice as the general population shows the contempt they have for the education system. Another failure from our illustrious leaders, if it even happens

I am no fan of our current government but not sure this is a fair interpretation. Really don’t think they could have given schools more notice than anyone else (the information would just have been quickly spread to the media etc). In terms of is it for education or for childcare I don’t think the two are mutually exclusive. For us we have one child and could keep going at home but I think it is bad for him socially. In terms of childcare yes it helps us but isn’t the critical issue here. However I think it is easy to chat about this and criticize the government when financially you are not up against the wall (we are not) and I certainly would not be judging anyone whose primary motivation for returning their kids to school was so that they could work!

tomtom

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Why isnt the policy being implemented locally? based on local R values?

Oldmanmatt

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Something from a friend, who’s partner is a child minder:

“Childminders have been allowed to work throughout - but only for Key Workers. That was relaxed as of Wednesday. The local council has basically been told to make sure providers are following best practice - meaning every district has different, and often conflicting, rules in place. L*** would be able to answer better than me, but most of it is now ultimately up to the providers to figure out how to work with a huge list of 'try to do this' guidelines.
 For example, Minded children are supposed to not be in areas of the home that family members may use. This is absolutely impossible, yet is also promoted as the 'best practice'.

The hilarious thing is that L*** would have to do the school run (for minded children). I'll be back at work next month. So, L*** will be caring for two of ours who are not going back, in order to drop one off. She will also potentially be caring for several children as a child-minder. So, sending just one back puts us all at risk from the school, and the school at risk from minded children. Not only that: it's impossible to social distance toddlers unless you restrain them. Not only that: you're not supposed to have children in multiple settings because it's too high risk, according to educational guidelines and local council ruling.
A***** will not go back until September.

The advice is fractured, self defeating, and confusing.”

mrjonathanr

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 Really don’t think they could have given schools more notice than anyone else (the information would just have been quickly spread to the media etc).

You believe that if the gov spoke to headteachers and unions they would have instantly shared this with press. Why?


Oldmanmatt

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 Really don’t think they could have given schools more notice than anyone else (the information would just have been quickly spread to the media etc).

You believe that if the gov spoke to headteachers and unions they would have instantly shared this with press. Why?

More to the point, why wasn’t this discussed with representatives of the headteachers and unions, prior to implementation?
I certainly haven’t heard that any discussion with “experts” took place, has anyone else?
There must be professional bodies in the education sector, beyond unions, that should have been consulted? Were they?

Davo

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 Really don’t think they could have given schools more notice than anyone else (the information would just have been quickly spread to the media etc).

You believe that if the gov spoke to headteachers and unions they would have instantly shared this with press. Why?

In answer to your question: 100% yes! Possibly not instantly but it would have come out quickly. As to why: just simple human nature and general political gripes against a government that has undervalued and underfunded education for a very long period.

mr chaz

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My girlfriend is a primary school teacher, year 2. Her point of view:

Social distancing is not possible in a classroom with 15 small children and a teacher, parents should be fully aware of this before sending them in.
Many children will not be able to see (let alone play) with their friends due to the 15 child 'bubble'.
Any educational value will be minimal as the majority of time in school will be spent trying to adhere to the web of guidelines, cleaning, washing hands, eating, staggered play times, staggered entry and leaving times.
They won't be able to use any of their usual resources, just a pen and a book.
She's convinced that once parents realise what it will really be like in schools, the majority will choose to keep them at home. She'd love to go back to work (currently working very hard from home, I should add), as long as parents are aware of the reality and the risks. The Government need to own up to the fact that this is not about education and is simply childcare.

Oh, and she "fucking hates Tories".

Johnny Brown

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Why isnt the policy being implemented locally? based on local R values?

Agree. An intelligent response would involve local controls being exerted in response to the local situation, and limits on travel.

My wife has just been on the phone to her head. Sounds like they'll following the Danish controls, limiting class sizes to 10, alternating which groups are in and further dividing classes into social groups. And no compulsory attendance.

Our son is seven, we've got a tiny garden and we're really noticing the lack of social contact. He can't concentrate and is developing tics which is quite worrying.

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Not heard anything, but then I'm in Scotland so we aren't expecting any return to school until mid August after the summer holidays.

My first question would be are they separating the children of key workers ( who are much more likely to be infected) from the other children.

Obviously I'm worried about my kids catching the virus at school and infecting my wife and I, but does anyone reasonably believe that apart from those vulnerable people "shielded" the English government is not planning for us all to become infected now that the nightingale hospitals have been built, just at a rate at which the NHS is able to support the sickest? The virus is in the general population and without extending the "hard" lockdown for months we are now in the survival phase.

mrjonathanr

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Personally, I am very keen for children to be back in school. The extent to which the administration is motivated by parental childcare needs or children's needs seems irrelevant to me; it is just important that children get into schools to socialise and learn. The problem is that this has to be done safely, both out of decency - you want your child not to come to harm at school- and legally - there are duties of care to children and school staff regulated by law.

 Currently we don't seem to have an effective way to do this.

Will Hunt

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Our eldest turns three next week (I used to think that a 2 year old child was the most fun thing to be around, but watching her personality develop makes me think that a 3 year old might be even more fun!) and nursery have asked us "what are our concerns?". Which is kind of a pointless question - what do you think our concerns are?!

Social distancing children of this age is not going to work. And I don't think it would be very helpful for the staff to be wearing PPE! She was going to nursery for two days a week while Daisy is on maternity leave, and she seems to have coped quite well with not mixing with children her own age. I've not noticed anything like what JB describes, but there may be social issues that are developing which only become apparent when she meets children of her own age again. That's been my biggest concern for her from the outset.

Basically, I'm not sure what to do. So far I feel as though I've reduced my chance of contracting it to almost nil, with the biggest risk being the three trips to the supermarket I've made. If she goes back to nursery she will catch anything that the other children bring in and she will then transfer it to us. It's an act of faith - maybe send her in on one day a week and hope that she doesn't bring it home. Are the benefits to her worth the additional risk? Given the scenes that my wife has observed while taking the kids for walks over the past few days (families picnicking together at close quarters in parks,   mums meeting up with other mums to take the kids for a walk together etc etc) there's no way that we can make the assumption that other parents are being just as careful as us.

Edit: just talking to Daisy about this. Her preference would be that we organise a playdate once a week with the other two families in our NCT group - which might become partially possible if the social bubble thing comes in.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2020, 12:17:03 pm by Will Hunt »

ali k

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Really don’t think they could have given schools more notice than anyone else (the information would just have been quickly spread to the media etc).
You believe that if the gov spoke to headteachers and unions they would have instantly shared this with press. Why?
More to the point, why wasn’t this discussed with representatives of the headteachers and unions, prior to implementation?
I certainly haven’t heard that any discussion with “experts” took place, has anyone else?
There must be professional bodies in the education sector, beyond unions, that should have been consulted? Were they?
Were representatives from business groups involved in the guidance and restart dates for businesses? If so, then I don’t see why schools shouldn’t have been paid the same courtesy.

If not, then have the govt just ploughed ahead with all these changes without consulting anyone?

tomtom

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Most Golf courses seemed to know they wre going to open the week before!!!

mrjonathanr

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One control measure conspicuous by its absence is testing.

Surely if we can doo 100k tests daily, it would take <50 days to test the entire primary population.

SA Chris

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Not heard anything, but then I'm in Scotland so we aren't expecting any return to school until mid August after the summer holidays.

I'm the same. School holidays start 3rd July (For Aberdeenshire at least) so a week or two earlier than England, which makes me think they may stretch it out, especially with "recorded cases" in Grampian rising faster than rest of Scotland.

 

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