[Will Hunt]

A mate of a mate sent me this:

"For me the 3 main concerns with climbing during the lockdown is
1)   Passing the virus
2)   Overloading NHS
3)   Public perception / access issues
I think solo, low-ball bouldering or shunting is very low risk for passing the virus but points 2 and 3 were relevant at the start. So initially I was happy to stay indoors and see how the situation unfolded.
One day I did a fairly big walk to a near-ish crag, which is also fairly well hidden and without access issues, and cleaned a couple of unclimbed boulder problems from the ground. Didn’t seem any higher risk than a standard walk for all points 1, 2 & 3
I actually bought a UKB/C approved bike so I could get a decent workout, which was good fun. Though it actually felt way more dangerous than any of the climbing I’d consider doing at this point, especially as some risks are beyond my control ie traffic.
 So, as time went on and it became clear the NHS was coping, I thought it would now be acceptable to do some solo, low level bouldering or shunting at hidden venues with no history of access issues / on open access land. I went to a couple of local crags, via car* now, usually Sunday or Monday evenings and didn’t see anyone at all once out of the car. So satisfying all 3 of my points.
So as the virus won’t actually be magically disappearing at midnight tonight, I won’t be back at the crags as usual tomorrow as point 1, to some extent 2 and possibly 3 are all still a concern. So I will continue with the same approach I’ve had over the last few weeks – quite local, solo, low bouldering or shunting. Maybe the odd obscure route if the person in my household wants to give me a belay.
*this seems to be a big issue with some people. All I can say is that it feels way safer than cycling, I still haven’t needed to re-fuel so no infected petrol pump handling, and if worse case the car broke down I was never so far than I couldn’t have abandoned it with my gear walked a fairly long way home. Most occasions I actually swung by the supermarket on the way back so 2 birds with 1 stone."


The mate also said this:

"and anyone flocking to stanage tomrrow with their mates, because obviously the virus stops existing on the 13th May is a fucking muppet"

[Andy F]

I've not climbed since the Monday before lockdown. I'm going climbing today though. Socially distant as much as possible, hand gel etc.

I don't blame those who have been out, I understand the need. As someone who has suffered severe depression in part due to inability to climb, I get it.

[TobyD]

I've not climbed since the Monday before lockdown. I'm going climbing today though. Socially distant as much as possible, hand gel etc.

I don't blame those who have been out, I understand the need. As someone who has suffered severe depression in part due to inability to climb, I get it.

I'm still in two minds about climbing now. As someone working with patients,  some with the virus I think that people who have carried on climbing during the lockdown so far should have a cold look at their priorities in life, and why being an amateur rock climber is more important than social responsibility.

I'm not going to start tearing into people for it, it just makes me feel sad about human nature.  That's just how I feel. 

[Andy F]

I've not climbed since the Monday before lockdown. I'm going climbing today though. Socially distant as much as possible, hand gel etc.

I don't blame those who have been out, I understand the need. As someone who has suffered severe depression in part due to inability to climb, I get it.

I'm still in two minds about climbing now. As someone working with patients,  some with the virus I think that people who have carried on climbing during the lockdown so far should have a cold look at their priorities in life, and why being an amateur rock climber is more important than social responsibility.

I'm not going to start tearing into people for it, it just makes me feel sad about human nature.  That's just how I feel. 

I understand your position Toby. I'm balancing the risk to my family against my own needs. If I take as many precautions as possible then is going to the crag any less dangerous than the shops?
Given how many times I've seen people (particularly old dears) pick things up and then put them back, is holding onto a piece of rock that, in all likelihood, hasn't been touched for 8 weeks going to have the virus on it? Highly improbable.

[shark]

Andy - re your FB post I think posting for partners for sport climbing seems like a step too far just yet.

[Andy F]

Andy - re your FB post I think posting for partners for sport climbing seems like a step too far just yet.

Why? I've been completely open about it. It's not difficult to stick to a 2m distance outside, follow the precautions etc.
Like many people I've stuck to the rules and will continue to do so.
Like many others I've not got a wall at home, only a fingerboard.
While I've been using it, regularly and to my benefit, it's not climbing.
I know you think it too soon Shark, but I'm still now within my rights to go out.

[abarro81]

I think on many routes it actually is quite tricky to be 2m from your belayer at the start of the route, at least if the first 1-2 bolts are tricky. I'd suggest that you would only want to pick routes with easy starts. Also maybe traverse route as any droplets from trying hard and talking will presumably be falling onto their head unless there's a breeze?

I'm lucky enough to live with a climber, but on any days where she can't climb and I can, I'll be going bouldering not hooking up with others to sport climb, at least for a few weeks until we see how everything's panning out at climbing venues. This isn't me saying you shouldn't do it, just where I'm at. I do think PMs might be a better way to arrange partners for a few weeks initially though.

There will be a period where we all find our way to peaceful co-use of these areas in a socially distanced world by climbers, walkers, locals, bikers etc. As we start to explore this, it might be worth doing it with some caution. No doubt there are peak locals on that facebook group who will be pissed by people posting for partners a lot, at least initially.

If this feels like me being a dick because I live with a climber, here's the example that does impact me: The things I most want to do in the peak are some projects at the cornice. Everything else in the peak is either too crimpy and would break me, or is just killing time until I can go to Yorkshire, Wales or Europe. I'd be perfectly entitled to go try this tomorrow. Walkers could get past my belayer at 2m, but they might have to wait whilst she moves out the way. BUT, I don't think it's sensible to go there just yet. Hopefully in a few weeks walkers, climbers, locals and everyone else will have chilled out a bit and will be very much "live and let live, so long as we're all 2m distanced" when it comes to the outdoors.

[TobyD]

I understand your position Toby. I'm balancing the risk to my family against my own needs. If I take as many precautions as possible then is going to the crag any less dangerous than the shops?
Given how many times I've seen people (particularly old dears) pick things up and then put them back, is holding onto a piece of rock that, in all likelihood, hasn't been touched for 8 weeks going to have the virus on it? Highly improbable.

That's not the point. People need food. People don't need rock climbing, whatever they think. I've not even got a fingerboard.

[spidermonkey09]

I agree with Barrows (this is becoming a habit). I don't think publicly posting for partners is wise at the moment. If you're going to do it, do it via personal messages in my view. In a week or two once things settle down it might well be OK but surely softly softly is a better approach to start with?

[TobyD]

Andy - re your FB post I think posting for partners for sport climbing seems like a step too far just yet.

Why? I've been completely open about it. It's not difficult to stick to a 2m distance outside, follow the precautions etc.
Like many people I've stuck to the rules and will continue to do so.
Like many others I've not got a wall at home, only a fingerboard.
While I've been using it, regularly and to my benefit, it's not climbing.
I know you think it too soon Shark, but I'm still now within my rights to go out.

I agree with Shark I'm afraid. You're within your rights Andy, I just don't think it is the right thing to do, that's all.

[shark]

I know you think it too soon Shark, but I'm still now within my rights to go out.

It’s not going out per se that I’m picking up on. It’s the posting for randoms to climb with on the internet that I was picking up on

[Andy F]

I know you think it too soon Shark, but I'm still now within my rights to go out.

It’s not going out that I’m picking up on. It’s the posting for randoms to climb with on the internet that I was picking up on

Still within the rules though Shark. I get why you, Toby and others may tut and shake your head, but when it boils down to it, I'm playing the way I've been directed.
If I had another option, I'd take it, but as no-one in my household climbs I've got to contact people via the web. Be that FB or PM, the outcomes are the same.

If the situation changes, if it starts to harm climbing, or others, I'll change.

[Lopez]

Clipstick and a shunt? 

[abarro81]

I think this

If the situation changes, if it starts to harm climbing, or others, I'll change.

risks being a little back-to-front. Otherwise I'd be at the cornice today, Shark would be at Malham on Sat and everyone would be at Kilnsey on Sun. None of those strike me as a great idea in week 1, let's ease back in a little and reassess as we go. Hopefully we can be back at the cornice, malham, kilnsey etc before too long, with partners arranged online if necessary. If not, then we'll just have to fudge through with mediocre crags and bouldering (Also, you wont know if "or others" happens in a COVID sense)

If I had another option, I'd take it,

Bouldering. I have various mates who don't live with climbers, and who are planning on bouldering.

[Andy F]

You make valid points.
Are mine any less valid or breaking any of the guidelines?

Yes, I could go bouldering. If I had a shunt I could use it. I've chosen to go sport climbing. Within the rules/guidelines.

I could have chosen to ignore them, like others have. I didn't. I'm glad that I've followed all the prescribed instructions, and continue to do so.

[abarro81]

Are mine any less valid or breaking any of the guidelines?

As far as I can tell, you're only making one point: X is allowed, therefore I will do X.
You don't seem to have engaged with the points made about whether applying some restraint initially might lead to a better long-term outcome for all (climbers, locals, walkers etc) with lower stress, fewer arguments, fewer access issues etc.

This point

If I had another option, I'd take it,

isn't valid, as pointed out. Or at least no more valid than if Simon were arguing that he has no choice other than to go to Malham, because that's where his long-term project is, and he's chosen to go long-term-projecting. You see that if everyone takes your approach we'll all be back at all venues from today right? Is that really your view on what's best? It may well be, but I'd definitely suggest that it's a risky one from an access point of view if nothing else. There are counter arguments against this (not that you made them) - not letting landowners use this opportunity to restrict access long-term etc. I agree with these, but would say that - given the rapid pace of movement on this stuff currently - it would be worth waiting a week, perhaps 2, perhaps even a month, and seeing how things are playing out before pushing too hard. My boss just agreed to let me work from Europe for 2 months in the autumn if the borders are open, I didn't get there by going in with that request on day 1 in a new job, I got there by showing that he can trust me to get my shit done (good thing he doesn't read ukb!) and gradually demoing how it works. (Yes that was just an excuse to gloat, not that it's likely to come to anything as we'll prob be stuck in the uk!)

This is all a spectrum - some people think best bet is not to climb in the peak; I think the best bet for me is to climb, because I think we can do so safely and without causing access issues or starting fights, but with some caveats initially (no malham, no cornice, don't do stuff liable to wind up landowners or locals whether in person or online); you think it's best to do whatever you want, so long as the regulations are not broken. That's fine, but I find it weird that you ask about whether your points are valid, when you've not made any, just expressed that opinion  Am I being too harsh?

Also, worth bearing in mind that the only thing Simon and Toby were suggesting was a bad idea was posting about partners in a public forum. Just PM some people you've climbed with in the past and see if they want to climb. If not then go bouldering. It'll be like climbing was a few years back, before facebook groups. It's not like they've even said you shouldn't go climbing with someone outside your household - just keep it slightly on the down-low for a few weeks to avoid unnecessarily pissing off the locals that will be in those groups.

[abarro81]

I wasted too long writing that, so unless someone says something interesting I'm out.

[ashtond6]

I wasted too long writing that, so unless someone says something interesting I'm out.

You've said that at least 3 times in the various covid threads 

See you tonight

[Andy F]

Your points are well made Alex.
There is very much a broad spectrum of opinions on going climbing now as you have said.
From my position, I've stuck to the rules 100% and will continue to do so. I'm not going to Malham/Kilnsey/other blatantly clear to many passing punter venues. Even the closest climbing to me (20 mins drive) is highly frequented by the public and going there could be construed by them as negative.

Is it too soon to go out?  Maybe, maybe not, but I am being honest and upfront with my choices.

So.. see you later Alex 

[abarro81]

So.. see you later Alex 

 

See you tonight

Can't resist. It's like that lovely moreish crack.

[spidermonkey09]

This exchange was far too polite. Someone call someone a cunt for my entertainment please.

It's almost like even the possibility of being allowed out again has chilled everyone out...

[danm]

I'm not going to judge anyone who has been sneaking out, but I don't think we should be talking about it publicly. Whatever our rights may be, long term problems with public perception and access are likely to occur if we aren't cautious over the next few months, and it will help if we don't suddenly make it clear that some of the community were ignoring the lockdown all along.

I got all giddy at the thought of getting out today, but I've reined it in a bit and I'll go out tomorrow instead when I'm a bit less charged up. If I see any of you out I'll wave distantly!

[SA Chris]

I always wave distantly anyway, tend to avoid getting close to you bunch of cunts anyway.

[Will Hunt]

I went out today. It was fucking great 

Got the last speck in the lay-by for 3 cars. The drivers of the other two nowhere to be seen. Saw one group of three walkers on the approach. The track that runs past the crag had three pairs of walkers go past all day.
Nobody else at the crag.
Used sanitiser when I arrived and when I left. Managed to not touch any gates by using the bamboo cane of my stick brush to lift the latches. Overkill, but it was like being in the crystal maze so all added to the fun.

Even found an undocumented boulder and did 9 new problems.

 

[dunnyg]

andy_e sez hes done them before. Back around.