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Lockdown fingerboarding advice (Read 32399 times)

shark

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#75 Re: Lockdown fingerboarding advice
April 11, 2020, 01:36:46 pm
As a beginner to it I wasn’t sure whether I could justify extending the rest but reckon it would definitely allow better quality time under tension. My FB is suspended off a pull-up bar so need a second to get off safely without pinging off and a second to get my fingers back on right afte a little shake. Feels pretty panicked towards the end of a set.

I find standing on the floor and bearing down hard one handed is a good way to train and in your case it might be more practical too.

Also FWIW IMVHO repeaters seems like an ineffective and muddled thinking way of training fingers.  :worms:

abarro81

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#76 Re: Lockdown fingerboarding advice
April 11, 2020, 01:40:55 pm
Conversely, I think a well structured repeaters session such as the Anderson hangs session is the best way of training fingers

shark

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#77 Re: Lockdown fingerboarding advice
April 11, 2020, 02:15:00 pm
You win

spidermonkey09

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#78 Re: Lockdown fingerboarding advice
April 11, 2020, 02:37:38 pm
What's everyone fav timer for custom stuff?

On android i use a free one called interval timer. Very simply but has a nice colour scheme and counts you in and out of each rep with beeps. Allows you to save and name workouts snd has unobtrusive ads.

teestub

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#79 Re: Lockdown fingerboarding advice
April 11, 2020, 02:37:52 pm
Yeah on this particular subject I think my money is behind Carlisle rather than Shark  :lol:

Coops_13

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#80 Re: Lockdown fingerboarding advice
April 11, 2020, 02:45:35 pm
What's everyone fav timer for custom stuff?
On android i use a free one called interval timer. Very simply but has a nice colour scheme and counts you in and out of each rep with beeps. Allows you to save and name workouts snd has unobtrusive ads.
why not the BM app? You can create and save custom workouts which seem to work for me
« Last Edit: April 11, 2020, 02:52:17 pm by Coops_13 »

tomtom

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#81 Re: Lockdown fingerboarding advice
April 11, 2020, 02:49:22 pm
repeaters near my limit
:-\

🙇‍♂️ I shall say some hail Mary’s and make a sacrifice in penance to the fingerboard gods/idols.

tomtom

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#82 Re: Lockdown fingerboarding advice
April 11, 2020, 02:50:13 pm
Re timers - I use the interval timer in my Fitbit.. nice gentle vibrate when it’s time to move or rest - I also use this on the board (well did at walls - not done so on my one yet...)

shark

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#83 Re: Lockdown fingerboarding advice
April 11, 2020, 03:01:23 pm
I just use a metronome app

shark

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#84 Re: Lockdown fingerboarding advice
April 11, 2020, 03:05:48 pm
Yeah on this particular subject I think my money is behind Carlisle rather than Shark  :lol:

Ok I’ll bite. What do you think it’s training and why do you think it’s useful?

spidermonkey09

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#85 Re: Lockdown fingerboarding advice
April 11, 2020, 03:40:19 pm
why not the BM app? You can create and save custom workouts which seem to work for me

Mostly because i bought it on an old iphone and am too tight to buy it on android too!

teestub

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#86 Re: Lockdown fingerboarding advice
April 11, 2020, 04:01:41 pm
What do you think it’s training

Finger strength.

and why do you think it’s useful?

It makes my fingers stronger.


I’ve read a fair amount about fingerboarding and I don’t think I’ve come across anyone who doesn’t recommend repeaters as part of programs, except perhaps that one Lopez paper (don’t think I ever read that).

I’m not a sports scientist but I would hazard a guess that the positive effects lie in some motor units tiring during the set so that other motor units have to fire. As an exercise it also seems more likely to cause the micro damage that you need to grow more muscle and increase the density of what’s there, whereas max hangs largely seem to rely on the more nerve based actions of getting all the units present to fire at the same time.

It also has the benefit of specificity, more closely representing bouldering than just a max hang (unless you’re trying Malc’s I guess).

Lastly they present a variation in loading from ‘just’ doing max hangs, and all training needs to include a large amount of variation, otherwise whatever part of the body that’s being worked will become lazy and stop adapting.


shark

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#87 Re: Lockdown fingerboarding advice
April 11, 2020, 04:27:29 pm
Max hangs gains continue beyond a few weeks so the gains must be more than just neurophysical. As for the other aspects why not just do a longer duration (density) hang to failure instead? I know the mimicking climbing argument but it seems to me that you get the intermittent stimulus when climbing whereas fingerboarding is the best opportunity to concentrate on raw strength (which also provides endurance gains whereas the reverse approach less so).

Davo

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#88 Re: Lockdown fingerboarding advice
April 11, 2020, 04:51:23 pm
It would be interesting to hear from someone with a sports science background here. Personally I think along the same lines as Shark here from the perspective that it is a great tool for working pure finger strength. Am not really certain that I have ever felt personally that repeaters feel like they are working strength. Maybe others feel differently??

HarryBD

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#89 Re: Lockdown fingerboarding advice
April 11, 2020, 04:53:08 pm

I find standing on the floor and bearing down hard one handed is a good way to train and in your case it might be more practical too.


Good thinking, will give that a try this evening. My impression was that repeaters and density hangs would be a good way of ‘easing in’ to FBing and adds resilience. Am sure consistent stimulus way more important for my finger strength level (weak!) than specific protocols.

teestub

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#90 Re: Lockdown fingerboarding advice
April 11, 2020, 04:57:26 pm
So do you think everyone out there recommending repeaters (Varian, Andersons, Bechtel, Maisch, Lettuce, Horst(?) etc., etc.) is wrong Shark?

Davo

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#91 Re: Lockdown fingerboarding advice
April 11, 2020, 05:06:30 pm
I think HarryBD ‘ s thoughts on them being a good way of getting into finger boarding seems reasonable.

Teestub my worries about repeaters being used for strength is that they lack specificity to what you are trying to train i.e. pure ability to hang off an edge for a set amount of time (say 10 seconds) which I think seems a reasonable way of considering what your maximal finger strength is.

Like I said I would welcome a clear explanation of why they might train actual finger strength

Dave

shark

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#92 Re: Lockdown fingerboarding advice
April 11, 2020, 05:11:35 pm

I find standing on the floor and bearing down hard one handed is a good way to train and in your case it might be more practical too.


Good thinking, will give that a try this evening. My impression was that repeaters and density hangs would be a good way of ‘easing in’ to FBing and adds resilience. Am sure consistent stimulus way more important for my finger strength level (weak!) than specific protocols.

The thing is they are training different things. The beauty of the bearing down as hard as you can whilst standing on the floor is that the limiter is the same whatever your level up to the point of being able one arm hang that edge in which case I’ll happily nail your feet to the floor.

Bradders

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#93 Re: Lockdown fingerboarding advice
April 11, 2020, 05:13:29 pm
Surely a varied training programme should just include both progressed over time? I'm not sure one is better than the other, they both have their place.

Shark you seem keen on density hangs lately and I'm totally with you in thinking they might be of real benefit, but if you think about it a set of repeaters (especially with very short rests) is essentially an extra long density hang no?

Totally anecdotal and lacking any sort of SCIENCE but in terms of repeaters working strength, when I fail on them it's always the same feeling as when I fail a 1rep max hang. As in, I'm in no way pumped, fairly fresh, I just cannot hang on anymore.

shark

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#94 Re: Lockdown fingerboarding advice
April 11, 2020, 05:13:41 pm
So do you think everyone out there recommending repeaters (Varian, Andersons, Bechtel, Maisch, Lettuce, Horst(?) etc., etc.) is wrong Shark?

Let’s just say I’m not convinced

reeve

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#95 Re: Lockdown fingerboarding advice
April 11, 2020, 05:22:20 pm
Further anecdote to add to the repeaters discussion: I've just finished my fourth repeaters session since lockdown, which I have been alternating with a long hangs session (i.e. 30 sec hangs x 3 per grip). I have worked on 3 grips each session, very similar total TUT between the two sessions, although different grips in them. I have seen good gains in the long hangs (given it's only been three weeks of doing them) but stalled on the Anderson repeaters. Lots of other variables which confound a firm conclusion being drawn obviously (and its n=1). But yeah, it's the third time I've tried Anderson hangs because I want to be like Barrows and the third time I've been disappointed  :wall:


*Actually, to be clear, I'm doing a variation on Anderson hangs: 5, 4, then 3 reps per set rather than 7, 6, 5; I had hoped that this would slide it along the scale towards the strength end rather than the AnCap / power endurance end of the spectrum.

teestub

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#96 Re: Lockdown fingerboarding advice
April 11, 2020, 05:28:51 pm
I’ve found (again N=1 obvs) that when I move into repeater style hangs from max I need a few sessions at sub max before I can start increasing the intensity, otherwise I just seem to hit a brick wall and can’t add any more weight or complete more sets.

abarro81

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#97 Re: Lockdown fingerboarding advice
April 11, 2020, 05:41:33 pm
Repeaters can train almost whatever you want them to train, you just build the session differently... The ones Dan mentioned above are v maximal (6 on 14 off a few times), others are aero cap. The only thing they aren't is pure 1-mover strength, but I really don't think that's the best way to spend most of your training time anyway. I'd hazard a bet that most good weightlifters aren't spending the vast majority of their training time doing a 1rep max and then resting 5 minutes, doing it again and then going home.

Obvs if your climbing training is all long boulders and you do hangs once per week then you might have good reason to be doing max work. If you're in the same position but the climbing is all falling off 1 move then for sure your hangs should be something like repeaters. If, like me, you're doing hangs 4 days per week in lockdown then prob do something like 2 sessions of each, or some max work then repeaters after.

Personally if you said I could only do one style from now on I'd do repeaters, based around an Anderson's session. Why? Because I feel like I've had the best gains from them. Also others have had good gains from them (e.g. Stu, Siegrist) It's basically a giant ancap session on a fingerboard. What does ancap get me good at?  Med/long boulders. What are the hard parts of most routes? Med/long boulders. If you prefer the weights analogy then view them as your hypertrophy sets etc.

P.s. Davo - you're not actually training to hang off an edge, you're training BY hanging off and edge to be good at rock climbing. What you can hang for 10s might be a good test of max finger strength, but the test is not the only thing you do to improve at the test. 200m runners don't just run 200m races, they do other shit too

P.p.s like teestub says, starting too easy on repeaters and working up over the sessions seems to work better than diving in at your pb.

P.p.p.s. Reeve - I can see why you'd be disappointed in yourself for wanting to be like me ;) I've had good gains from long duration hangs in the past toow, I don't think there's anything magical about repeaters vs long hangs

reeve

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#98 Re: Lockdown fingerboarding advice
April 11, 2020, 06:01:27 pm
I’ve found (again N=1 obvs) that when I move into repeater style hangs from max I need a few sessions at sub max before I can start increasing the intensity, otherwise I just seem to hit a brick wall and can’t add any more weight or complete more sets.

P.p.s like teestub says, starting too easy on repeaters and working up over the sessions seems to work better than diving in at your pb.

Okay, thanks both. Does that mean you're feeling solid and consolidated at a certain load before trying to increase it? If that's the case, I'll persist with but maybe reduce the load by 1-2 kgs for a week to consolidate before trying to increase it.

Personally if you said I could only do one style from now on I'd do repeaters, based around an Anderson's session. Why? Because I feel like I've had the best gains from them. Also others have had good gains from them (e.g. Stu, Siegrist) It's basically a giant ancap session on a fingerboard. What does ancap get me good at?  Med/long boulders. What are the hard parts of most routes? Med/long boulders. If you prefer the weights analogy then view them as your hypertrophy sets etc.

Do you do your Anderson repeaters at 7, 6, and then 5 reps in each set? I'm asking because this has always made me feel pumped (i.e. more like AeroPow than AeroCap).

Quote
P.p.p.s. Reeve - I can see why you'd be disappointed in yourself for wanting to be like me ;) I've had good gains from long duration hangs in the past toow, I don't think there's anything magical about repeaters vs long hangs
To be quite frank, it's been devastating ;D

teestub

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#99 Re: Lockdown fingerboarding advice
April 11, 2020, 06:30:47 pm
Yeah exactly, for me I’m probably at around 80% of what would cause failure in one or two sets working up to being able to reliably do 5 sets of a given grip before adding weight.

 

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