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Lockdown fingerboarding advice (Read 10998 times)

tomtom

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#25 Re: Lockdown fingerboarding advice
April 08, 2020, 08:15:21 am
Soz for being vague - I meant something like this

https://images.app.goo.gl/rJjCgrn2cpQxno3n6

Had em in the old screws jam jar etc..

carlisle slapper

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#26 Re: Lockdown fingerboarding advice
April 08, 2020, 09:44:55 am
I am currently doing max hangs on the 15mm BM2K + 48kg (body weight ~90kg). Target would be to 1 arm hang a 20mm edge half crimp and open.
 
I think you are probably right it is probably more the shoulder stability, although on the bottom BM rung it still feels like the fingers are opening and just not stable. My issue with pulley is that I cannot find a easy way to fit it without the mount being in the way of either the door or if mounted near the board it gets in the way of the lower rungs.


Good kilogrammage! Ok so normally you'd be looking to transfer at 60-70kg added as thats 70%ish. If you imagine each arm is taking equal load, then at the moment each arm is only holding 69KG and you would want to be closer to 75-80kg to hop onto a pulley +one arm more easily (its not quite as simple as this and i'd get a proper coaches look if you really want some detail). However at your weight you are pushing high numbers so i'd take more precautions and go slower (build upto it over 6 months), for 50-60kg waifs to one arm hang is a doddle but at 90kg each finger is taking some serious load. I'd try and work out where the failure is coming from in your hand, (does the pinky fail first or the index as a rule?) and check that all your fingers are pulling healthy percentages of your BW. You aren't far off really, especially as you'll be jumping from 15mm upto 25mm on the BM2000 if you go onto the middle slot. I'd say spend that bit of extra time coming up with a good pulley set up. If you can drop your fingerboard backing panel down below the top of the doorway on each side (keeping the board where it is) and cut out a square for a bit of 1" by 2" wood, or a cirlcle for a strong pole etc (or whatever will do the job thats strong enough). wedge that in between both holes either side of the door so it projects out behind from the board for about 50-60cm in the center and hang your pulley off that. Pulleys which are inline with fingerboards will always cause frustration if they're in a doorway. Considering nearly all of us are stuck at home its a great time to tinker with a set up that is as frustration free as possible.

Im 74kg atm the mo (dad bod) and can add 15kg for a half crimp one arm 1 rep max on the 20mm edge but thats a PB, however on a drag i can add 28kg for 103kg on a 20mm edge (bm 2000 small 3 finger slot) so your weight isn't so heavy that its going to be impossible to achieve. but it'll be a fight for sure. On the plus side i'd imagine that when you see the words morpho in the 7+8's font guide your eyes light up!

There are a few other >90kg big guys worldwide who can do this but you'll be in an elite club. I've popped in a few links of people i know of instastalk who can one arm deadhang as a big fella.
https://www.instagram.com/camz_grip/
https://www.instagram.com/bercht3.0/
https://www.instagram.com/tannermerkle/?hl=en

Focus on the fingers still, check shoulder stability anyway and add in bigger hold one arm hangs and prep a good pulley set up ready for the jump onto 1 arm.


Murph

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#27 Re: Lockdown fingerboarding advice
April 08, 2020, 10:45:52 am
Dan thanks so much for putting this up. It's really helpful and appreciated. I'm sort of struggling to understand the description of the pulley system though. Is there a picture you (or someone else) could point to a picture of a doorway pulley system. Probably should just set one up myself in the garage but want to understand what's being described here as it's a better place to train. Thanks also for the pointers about focusing on the fingers. Im personally guilty of dragging on a fingerboard just because I can get bigger numbers but know if I spent some time on HC it would probably find that of benefit on rock. So thanks for that as well.

If you can drop your fingerboard backing panel down below the top of the doorway on each side (keep rock ing the board where it is) and cut out a square for a bit of 1" by 2" wood, or a cirlcle for a strong pole etc (or whatever will do the job thats strong enough). wedge that in between both holes either side of the door so it projects out behind from the board for about 50-60cm in the center and hang your pulley off that. Pulleys which are inline with fingerboards will always cause frustration if they're in a doorway.

jstrongman

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#28 Re: Lockdown fingerboarding advice
April 08, 2020, 11:58:49 am
Thanks Dan, that makes a lot of sense and some good psyche in those links.

I think I will spend some time thinking (talking to the Mr’s) about the pulley, however might have to move operations to the shed. Adding 60kg+ seems pretty frightening for everyone, fingers, shoulders, doorframe, children and the dog!! If one hand slips, the load on the other is going to be grim.
I did while struggling to sleep last night, wonder about routering a track on the back of the board to fit a 60cm sling between board and wall/mounting and use that to hang a pulley system off or is that going to be too close, I imagine in an ideal would it would be set 10-20cm back? Thanks again and need to get on it, cannot let the family name down!!

SA Chris

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#29 Re: Lockdown fingerboarding advice
April 08, 2020, 12:02:08 pm
Is that really your surname, i though it was made up user name! If so you come a close second to Mike Tyson, formerly of this parish.

Doylo

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#30 Re: Lockdown fingerboarding advice
April 08, 2020, 12:19:42 pm
Dan, what do you rank as more important - board or hangs? If you could only do one.

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#31 Re: Lockdown fingerboarding advice
April 08, 2020, 12:27:10 pm
Is that really your surname, i though it was made up user name! If so you come a close second to Mike Tyson, formerly of this parish.

ha yeah, it is real..

tomtom

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#32 Re: Lockdown fingerboarding advice
April 08, 2020, 12:43:28 pm
Dan, what do you rank as more important - board or hangs? If you could only do one.

Is this for expert testimony to take to the planning hearing with Mrs Doylo? 😃

Doylo

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#33 Re: Lockdown fingerboarding advice
April 08, 2020, 12:56:01 pm
Dan, what do you rank as more important - board or hangs? If you could only do one.

Is this for expert testimony to take to the planning hearing with Mrs Doylo? 😃

I’ve got everything but struggle fit in both (along with outside climbing especially ).  :shrug:

El Mocho

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#34 Re: Lockdown fingerboarding advice
April 08, 2020, 04:14:00 pm
Had a go at it all today...

Worked out my max 1 arm hang - in half crimp in needed 8kg assistance and in 3 finger drag about 10kg (for 10 sec hang). I weigh 64.3kg. I worked out to get to the 70% max I would have to take off a shed loads of weight so sacked that off and decided to just try it all with 12.8kg taken off (the rucksack and a few bottles of water). This seemed to work. Did the one arm session Dan suggested. 1/2 crimp felt pretty steady throughout, although left hand felt sig. weaker than right. 3 finger drag felt both harder and less comfy on the hold I was using (although by the last sets I wasn't bothering to change the weight in the rucksack up from the 12kg I was using for half crimp). I also found my free arm ie the arm pulling on the other end of the rucksack pulley was getting pretty powered out, I guess the issue of having to have so much weight in the rucksack...

By the end of the second time through the sets (so after doing it all once then having a 15+ min rest) I was feeling a bit worked but 10 mins later felt fine. I considered having a board session but decided to be sensible. Are you supposed to finish and feel worked or still feel ok?

Had a very quick play at hanging back 2 (2 handed) and needed a touch more than the 12kg assistance (clipped to harness and through pulley) and it also felt horrible. Had a go at lifting up the rucksack with my pinky (I think with the original 12kg in) which I did a few times and felt kinda ok although kinda not. I'm also not sure how good my pinky form was - I tried to keep in half crimp but the strap was creeping past the first joint which made it easier/possible.

Felt like with so much weight in the rucksack, and as Dan said, there was a lot of friction through the pulley and you are essentially pulling on a jug with the other hand - with the length of rope etc my hand was about waist height but it felt like the rucksack was barely leaving the ground.

Guess I'll stick with this as I'm def not keen to do 2 handed hangs with much more than the 25kg I had last time.

I also tried hanging 1 armed off a massive jug a realised this was still fucking desperate (if keeping shoulders engaged etc) and I could only just do that for 10 sec.

Duma

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#35 Re: Lockdown fingerboarding advice
April 08, 2020, 04:42:30 pm
Ben, instead of holding the rope just tie a loop and stand in it. Or clip to a harness. Makes it harder as less stabilising from the free hand

JJP

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#36 Re: Lockdown fingerboarding advice
April 08, 2020, 04:43:37 pm
Great thread and interesting getting so much detail, especially benefits of assisted 1 arm vs weighted 2 arm. I fingerboard periodically and have been using a sort of theraband thing for assistance to the other hand but might try set up a pulley.

I have always found anything other than chisel, half crimp and to an extent 3 finger drag really tweaky/ horrible feeling.  Will try using the weights and sling to work on pinky and ring fingers. 

Camo

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#37 Re: Lockdown fingerboarding advice
April 08, 2020, 05:01:13 pm
Great thread and very useful as I am a bit of fingerboard punter. Have always done 2 arm hangs with weight and do max hangs some times but also do repeater sessions too. The advice about one arm hangs makes a lot of sense so I will try easing myself into that without taking the piss out of my shoulders. I think I should be able to use some stuff I’ve already got lying about to rig a pulley too so that’ll keep me busy for a while.  Got plenty of time to get used to it!!

tomtom

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#38 Re: Lockdown fingerboarding advice
April 08, 2020, 05:30:57 pm
Great thread and interesting getting so much detail, especially benefits of assisted 1 arm vs weighted 2 arm. I fingerboard periodically and have been using a sort of theraband thing for assistance to the other hand but might try set up a pulley.

I have always found anything other than chisel, half crimp and to an extent 3 finger drag really tweaky/ horrible feeling.  Will try using the weights and sling to work on pinky and ring fingers.

I’ve got therabands with a foot loop - prefer it to a pulley.

jstrongman

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#39 Re: Lockdown fingerboarding advice
April 09, 2020, 12:36:10 pm

... Ok so normally you'd be looking to transfer at 60-70kg added as thats 70%ish. If you imagine each arm is taking equal load, then at the moment each arm is only holding 69KG and you would want to be closer to 75-80kg to hop onto a pulley +one arm more easily

Dan your calculations where pretty close, so with the pulley setup I needed to use 14kg assistance to hang the 15mm edge (BM2K) RH and 16kg for LH this was for controlled 7 second hangs. The crazy thing is the I still need 12kg to hold the bottom middle rung, my grip is just so weak and hurts the skin on the incut, failing form the pinky. Think I might just focus on the 15mm  half crimped and 20mm 3 finger pocket open.

carlisle slapper

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#40 Re: Lockdown fingerboarding advice
April 09, 2020, 04:47:41 pm

https://www.flickr.com/photos/beastmaker/49753547251/in/photostream/
I've popped some pics on Flickr of my own pulley rig, but the same principle applies to a door as a box on a beam. make a hole in one side the size of the pulley pole/wood extension and wedge it in using the other side or the top of the beam/doorway. Obviously watch your levers/ moment calcs as you dont want to put a 3m pulley extension on and writhe off an entire doorway but 50-60cm is fairly safe.

Hope that helps.

I'll try and answer some more of the stuff/Q's in depth a bit later.

carlisle slapper

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#41 Re: Lockdown fingerboarding advice
April 10, 2020, 11:17:08 am
Dan, what do you rank as more important - board or hangs? If you could only do one.

Few words in that but a big question!
I reckon the answer depends on where you are in life and how time poor you are, what the goals are, access to rock etc. For me board climbing is far more enjoyable, i've had some great sessions on boards over the years with mates, fingerboarding is just a bit too stale to really enjoy. However if you take a span of 20-30years, house and career moves etc Fingerboarding is just far more transportable and maintainable. It allows measurable progress to be made, the only question being is how well does that translate over to the goals?. Weirdly i'd argue board climbing actually has less translation for many rock types as its just so rare in the UK to find climbs of that steep style, people are nearly always busting quite big moves on boards and smashing around squeezing things. Literally the only fat pinch i've ever established in the UK on a steep problem in the 8's where its quite a hard move is on the beast of succoth in Scotland and the crux on that is off the mono stack anyway. Dave mac's Natural method has one but the kneebar section is the crux (scotland has all the big steep boulders). My point being there's a big gap between style/ enjoyment of that movement on a board and what you'll typically get outdoors. In lockdown right now we're loving having a board in the house but i've been both fingerboarding and board climbing mostly based on my mood and how frazzled i am.
Personally i'd always go for a good steep board just for the enjoyment of it if i could only have one, i think the mental benefits from a good session on one outweigh the negatives and fun is far more important at the end of the day. Im sure anyone with a home board is counting themselves as bloody lucky right now for that very reason.

I have always found anything other than chisel, half crimp and to an extent 3 finger drag really tweaky/ horrible feeling.  Will try using the weights and sling to work on pinky and ring fingers. 

You've likely got flexor carpi sheath and lumbricals which will need gently coaxed into loosening up and pulling in directions they're not used to. the classic example of this is when people drop a pinky and get palm pain. The best way to turn the corner is by picking light weights up off the floor at about 3/10 tweakiness in those positions. (this is all very vague due to being short answers sorry but hopefully it helps)



Are you supposed to finish and feel worked or still feel ok?

I also tried hanging 1 armed off a massive jug a realised this was still fucking desperate (if keeping shoulders engaged etc) and I could only just do that for 10 sec.
,

Yeah i'd say thats a great result. you should probably feel like you can still go for a jog or do a bunch of easy routes etc. but dont. What you can do is work the core and shoulders on the floor or stretch etc. Seems pretty good if you can get through starting with that kind of weight off, i reckon you should dip under -10kg fairly quickly. in fact knowing you this is all some sort of bransb-hustle...

You could also make yourself a session up for one day in the week where you just focus on hanging on huge edges one armed with good form in different locks. As well as 2 armed scap pulls, lat pulls etc (google em) and mix that up with picking some stuff up off the floor (pinches or 1 finger stuff with light weights) That'd help break up the week if you've got limited stuff at home, i wouldn't do the session you did more than twice a week unless you're really stuck for ideas.

The best training results are always about minimising cross over (training the same muscle groups over and over) and using what energy you have in the best way possible to get the message across to your body. you could run a marathon after your FB session and there would be no crossover but you'd shag your energy reserves and confuse the message to your body about just what it needs to improve on.

One more thing i'd add is i quite like training with -2.5kg off regardless if i can hang an edge without as it really helps stop rotation just tippling the handle and if failure creeps in you can start to load it to complete the hang, for me it just sneaks better results than tapping hard surfaces to stop any sneaky rotation when trying close to max.







shark

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#42 Re: Lockdown fingerboarding advice
April 10, 2020, 12:15:38 pm
Dan, or anyone

What is the normal distribution of strength in each digit?

Was thinking of benchmarking each digit (presumably by weights on a sling as mentioned above) to see if there is a particularly weak digit.

Is there an old thread on this?

jwi

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#43 Re: Lockdown fingerboarding advice
April 10, 2020, 12:31:20 pm
Dan, or anyone

What is the normal distribution of strength in each digit?

Was thinking of benchmarking each digit (presumably by weights on a sling as mentioned above) to see if there is a particularly weak digit.

Is there an old thread on this?

The only data I've seen on this is a (very weak) paper by Köstermeyer in a German Sportscience Journal. I'll see if I find it tonight after my classes finish
« Last Edit: April 10, 2020, 12:36:42 pm by jwi »

shark

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#44 Re: Lockdown fingerboarding advice
April 10, 2020, 12:35:12 pm
Thanks jwi

Doylo

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#45 Re: Lockdown fingerboarding advice
April 10, 2020, 12:36:01 pm
Cheers  :thumbsup: Board has done more for me than any hangs. Plus more enjoyable like you say and although maybe not as pure finger strength training you get power and core mixed in with it.

Duma

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#46 Re: Lockdown fingerboarding advice
April 10, 2020, 12:46:13 pm
The enjoyment of a board makes it much more likely to be effective surely? Thought Dan's point about thumbs is interesting - we're all very hot on no thumbs when fingerboarding, and I've often been told to avoid using the thumb on the corners of edges when on a board to maximise training value, but everyone loves a pinch on a board, or to pick weights up, despite the fact that the former is very useful loads of the time outdoors, and hard pinching is pretty rare.

I've started doing moves on my fingerboard and through the doorway to the lattice rung on the other side - this is way more fun than just hanging, and feels like it's working a much wider range of things - despite probably being less efficient for pure finger strength gains.

shark

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#47 Re: Lockdown fingerboarding advice
April 10, 2020, 01:08:43 pm
Internet been reading my mind again - this popped up on my FB feed


remus

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#48 Re: Lockdown fingerboarding advice
April 10, 2020, 01:52:47 pm
Dan, or anyone

What is the normal distribution of strength in each digit?

Was thinking of benchmarking each digit (presumably by weights on a sling as mentioned above) to see if there is a particularly weak digit.

Is there an old thread on this?

One of the guys at Lattice is doing his dissertation project on this at the moment. I think he's writing up at the moment, I'll try and remember to post it on here when he's finished.

shark

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#49 Re: Lockdown fingerboarding advice
April 10, 2020, 01:58:04 pm
One of the guys at Lattice is doing his dissertation project on this at the moment. I think he's writing up at the moment, I'll try and remember to post it on here when he's finished.

 :2thumbsup:

 

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