[Nigel]

Health Secretary just announcing that we *now* have a 3-point plan for PPE - proper guidance, improved distribution, and ongoing work to secure a future supply - he asks on live TV whether any companies might lend a hand.

Words (almost) fail me. They are only now starting planning for a pandemic that started weeks if not months ago. As raised earlier in the thread, could this plan not have been, well, planned already? And implemented? Might give him a call to see if he'll come and shut my stable door for me...

[Oldmanmatt]

Health Secretary just announcing that we *now* have a 3-point plan for PPE - proper guidance, improved distribution, and ongoing work to secure a future supply - he asks on live TV whether any companies might lend a hand.

Words (almost) fail me. They are only now starting planning for a pandemic that started weeks if not months ago. As raised earlier in the thread, could this plan not have been, well, planned already? And implemented? Might give him a call to see if he'll come and shut my stable door for me...

I have read elsewhere about the procurement process, globally, degenerating into something bordering on piracy and bullying (with the principle bad actor being the US) and I’d wager a good deal of this equipment is manufactured overseas.

Both Canada and Germany have made, almost, warlike accusations (involving words like “consequences” and “repercussions”) against the US and fairly sure I read something about Spanish protests too.

So, there may be extenuating circumstances for recent attempts to rectify earlier oversights.

I agree, that this sort of thing should have been planned for and stockpiles established, long before it actually transpired. A national stockpile of medical/infectious disease PPE, hardly seems like it would have been prohibitively expensive.

The ventilators, seem more understandable. That is a more specific, less predictable need, no? Unless you always assume SARs as your baseline pandemic. We’ve been more concerned about Ebola recently though.

[mrjonathanr]

I agree, that this sort of thing should have been planned for and stockpiles established, long before it actually transpired. A national stockpile of medical/infectious disease PPE, hardly seems like it would have been prohibitively expensive.

Since you ask:
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/27/advice-on-protective-gear-for-nhs-staff-was-rejected-owing-to-cost

[tomtom]

Ffs.. Cummings again - the X stage plan.

Every part of this government’s response is a 3-5 stage plan.... sounds grand - seems to mean fuck all.

[Oldmanmatt]

Ffs.. Cummings again - the X stage plan.

Every part of this government’s response is a 3-5 stage plan.... sounds grand - seems to mean fuck all.

Yup.

Just like everyone I ever met, who had a “five year plan”...

[Nigel]

I agree, that this sort of thing should have been planned for and stockpiles established, long before it actually transpired. A national stockpile of medical/infectious disease PPE, hardly seems like it would have been prohibitively expensive.

Agreed. For me personally this is beyond debate. And as I said earlier, if we don't have a stockpile, then at the very least an instantly actionable plan for producing PPE domestically upon recognition of a pandemic. This clearly hasn't happened despite the warnings from Operation Cygnus. The fact they are making a song and dance about this plan now I find distasteful as well as farcical.

The ventilators, seem more understandable. That is a more specific, less predictable need, no? Unless you always assume SARs as your baseline pandemic. We’ve been more concerned about Ebola recently though.

Yes of course, that is much less predictable and I have much more sympathy on ventilators. Luckily we have our premier vacuum manufacturer on that one so should be fine. The baseline pandemic assumption for planning was influenza. Whether or not that would require extra ventilation capacity I don't know, but if so then my sympathy may start to wane. Whether assuming influenza as the baseline alone was the correct call is another question.

And why don't the media ask similar questions?! They are letting us down as much as HMG.

[ali k]

On the topic of the police handling of the lockdown it must be really hard to get this right, and a consistent approach across all forces in the country. But where the hell has Priti Patel been?! Conspicuous by her absence. I’d be fuming if I was a Chief constable and the Home Secretary just went AWOL during all this and left my officers to take the flack.

As for the 3 point PPE plan...only about 3 months too late. Absolutely criminal.

[chris j]

Health Secretary just announcing that we *now* have a 3-point plan for PPE - proper guidance, improved distribution, and ongoing work to secure a future supply - he asks on live TV whether any companies might lend a hand.

Words (almost) fail me. They are only now starting planning for a pandemic that started weeks if not months ago. As raised earlier in the thread, could this plan not have been, well, planned already? And implemented? Might give him a call to see if he'll come and shut my stable door for me...

I have read elsewhere about the procurement process, globally, degenerating into something bordering on piracy and bullying (with the principle bad actor being the US) and I’d wager a good deal of this equipment is manufactured overseas.

I would think a national capability to produce medical ppe will be part of most countries changes when even your close 'friends' cut you off.

https://www.euronews.com/2020/03/06/coronavirus-french-protective-mask-manufacturer-scraps-nhs-order-to-keep-masks-in-france

[chris j]

Giving them all 10k seems a bit stupid, suggest allowing tthem to claim for additional expenses would be fair though.

Oddly this is exactly what ipsa did, increasing the ~£28000 constituency office expenses allowance by a maximum of £10000. Going beyond the clickbait headline its even what the original piece linked says...

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-mp-expenses-working-home/false-claim-british-mps-award-themselves-extra-10000-in-expenses-idUSKCN21R2IX

[danm]

But where the hell has Priti Patel been?! Conspicuous by her absence.

I should think it was rather obvious why she's been kept away from the media - she's a total fucking liability. She got the gig as home sec because Boris wanted to pack his cabinet full of Brexiteers. She didn't get the job because of her intellect, charm or her ability to motivate a team of civil servants. Or her integrity for that matter. Now that shit has gotten real, the one thing the government have gotten right is to keep her as far away from delivering a press briefing as they can manage.

[Somebody's Fool]

I think the reason she is currently being kept off our screens is her inability to fake human empathy.

[ali k]

I should think it was rather obvious why she's been kept away from the media - she's a total fucking liability.

Sorry yes I should have made it clear that was a rhetorical question. I know exactly why she’s being kept away. The same reason she’s been hiding from the home affairs select committee hearing. But that’s Johnson’s problem for including her in his cabinet and doesn’t excuse the media for not calling out her absence.

[TobyD]

And why don't the media ask similar questions?! They are letting us down as much as HMG.

When Hancock was interviewed on today programme this morning he was asked whether if he'd planned ppe better the 19 NHS staff who've died of CV 19 so far would have lived. It has to be said he struggled to answer that one.

[Offwidth]

An article from Byline Times looking at government policy on covid 19.

The who? The site had all sorts of fake news/bullshit claxons going off in my head... Happy to be wrong...

They are a small crowdfunded outfit, just over a year old, who are targetting independant investigations in areas overlooked by the UK press, in particular looking into extremist groups and obscurely funded political think tanks . They published online initially but now have a paper edition.  A plus is they are one of the few UK media organisations who are signed up to IMPRESS regulation. It's more of a platform for like-minded journalists than a traditional newspaper, so there may be issues with editorial control and political breadth. Content seems to be centre left.

https://bylinetimes.com

https://bylinetimes.com/about/

http://www.transparencyproject.org.uk/byline-times-a-new-approach-to-journalism/

https://www.pressgazette.co.uk/byline-team-peter-jukes-launching-new-website-and-print-newspaper/

https://www.journalism.co.uk/news/byline-a-new-wave-in-crowdfunding-/s2/a565733/

[ali k]

When Hancock was interviewed on today programme this morning he was asked whether if he'd planned ppe better the 19 NHS staff who've died of CV 19 so far would have lived. It has to be said he struggled to answer that one.

And the non-committal answer he gave as to whether frontline NHS workers should continue to work without the correct PPE (“use their own judgement”) was fairly telling. I’m not sure that answer would stand up to investigation by the HSE if given by the head of any other organisation.

[TobyD]

When Hancock was interviewed on today programme this morning he was asked whether if he'd planned ppe better the 19 NHS staff who've died of CV 19 so far would have lived. It has to be said he struggled to answer that one.

And the non-committal answer he gave as to whether frontline NHS workers should continue to work without the correct PPE (“use their own judgement”) was fairly telling. I’m not sure that answer would stand up to investigation by the HSE if given by the head of any other organisation.

Yes I wouldn't disagree with that at all, or indeed a select committee. However the BBC has been asking ministers the questions. I think it's a difficult balance at the moment between questions and denting confidence in government to the extent that people ignore their advice on staying at home.

[TobyD]

'Test of resolve': Britons warned to stay at home as temperatures set to hit 26C

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/apr/11/test-of-resolve-britons-warned-to-stay-at-home-as-temperatures-set-to-hit-26c?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

Police deployed a “sky talk” drone in Walton-on-Thames to break up a group of 30 people not abiding to social distancing regulations. The group left without officers having to take further action.

If required, the drone will direct large groups of people congregating in outdoor spaces to leave the area by playing a pre-recorded message of: “Attention this a police message. You are gathering in breach of government guidelines to stay at home in response to the coronavirus. You are putting lives at risk. Please disperse immediately and return home.”

Blimey. Almost sci fi!

[TobyD]

 Additional to previous post, I wonder if some police forces will start purchasing HKs (Terminator ref) to keep people in check?

[Offwidth]

From todays BBC live world news feed:

"Throughout the pandemic, Sweden's response to the coronavirus has been an odd one out. Unlike most of Europe, it did not introduce a lockdown - cafes and restaurants remain open, and schools have not closed. Although the government advised against non-essential travel, it has largely been business as usual, albeit a bit quieter.

Now Prime Minister Stefan Löfven has admitted that Sweden was not properly prepared for the pandemic and that it is "obvious that country has not done enough". Restaurants not observing social distancing should be shut, he told Swedish broadcaster SVT.

In Sweden, 870 people have died from the virus - many more than neighbours Denmark (247) and Norway (113), where lockdowns were introduced in early March.:"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-52252981

[andy popp]

Suddenly everyone loves talking about Scandinavia! My social media of full of people with no connection to the region debating the merits of the different approaches. On the face of it, Sweden's approach has not really worked - even though it is (for now) doing better than the UK. There are going to be some interesting comparative studies to be done when we're all done.

For reference, Sweden has a little less than twice Denmark's population and almost four times as many deaths.

Edit: Norway's population is also a little under half of Sweden's and is thus doing significantly better than Denmark. Don't know what the explanation for that might be.

[kelvin]

If required, the drone will direct large groups of people congregating in outdoor spaces to leave the area by playing a pre-recorded message of: “Attention this a police message. You are gathering in breach of government guidelines to stay at home in response to the coronavirus. You are putting lives at risk. Please disperse immediately and return home.”

Blimey. Almost sci fi!

Certainly sci-fi, the sort I was reading in the eighties and completely unimaginable here in the UK to my teenage mind

[Paul B]

Saying "the right PPE was in the post" would not cut it.

I asked this question elsewhere and got a bad reaction (Twitter of course). What's the latest with this? I'm still finding it baffling that the current PPE situation isn't just a clear breach. 

[tc]

This is quite a long read/ listen but I found it very interesting and simple to follow. If anyone with better math than be (99% of the population probably) has half an hour to spare and can be bothered to comment, I'd welcome your views:

[abarro81]

Part 1 - China. The Chinese numbers are low because the Chinese got on top of it by enacting strict lockdowns that make ours look like partytime . His points would only be valid if China had NOT enacted a lockdown.

Part 2 - his model. The second part effectively claims that China reached herd immunity, and that's what caused the decay (most people already infected/immune so R drops below 1). His model may fit the China data, but his model appears to use a population of 1 million, vs a population of 1.4 billion in reality. I have no idea why, my guess is that he manipulated all of his assumptions until he got the graph he wanted, then claimed that it didn't really matter what he set them to. I can't be bothered to try to replicate his model to check how it's affected by the paremeters. Given recent news articles about German testing in hard hit areas, it seems v unlikely that anywhere has hit herd immunity yet.

At this point I got bored of listening to him talk, because he says a lot of dumb shit and doesn't address the obvious retorts to them. If he were genuinely arguing that the declines are a result of herd immunity and not the lockdown he would address the obvious questions - since he doesn't I'll assume he's some con artist or idiot.

End note: it seems possible that you could create a scenario in which he's right about the virus declining due to natural effects, I guess you'd need a large % of the population to be immune naturally - i.e. you wouldn't get ill, wouldn't test positive, but also wouldn't show up on an antibody test. I don't know virology so I don't know if that last one is feasible. It's not what he's arguing anyway. Finally, I think his model SHOULDN'T fit the China data if the model is right, because when the lockdown kicks in and changes R, his model should deviate due to his model having an R that's not changed on the basis of the lockdown. So my guess is that his model is bollocks.

[petejh]

You don’t need to be a mathematician to know he’s talking shit with a convincing-sounding tone. 

As Alex says, not mentioning lockdown as being a factor in China’s infection and fatality figures is enough to tell you not to bother watching any further.

Fuck sake, this is exactly the kind of shit that a friend of mine is watching and using to form his whack beliefs. Internet should be banned for anyone with an IQ less than 110 as it’s stupid people who enable the propagation of dangerous misinformation by believing it. (not aimed at anyone on here). Let them do yoga in the park but take away  their internet connections.