[mrjonathanr]

Accelerating the death of cash might be one of the unintended positive consequences of covid-19.

Positive? I am not so sure.  There are people at the bottom - not necessarily fraudulent- end of the economy who are dependent on cash transactions. Card data is also data, privacy implications unavoidable.

[ali k]

The home insulation scheme will do as little as the ones that have been running for the last 10 years or so...

They usually just result in inflated prices for the accredited firms participating in the scheme so both homeowner and taxpayer get well and truly ripped off!

The UK has the worst obesity rate in Europe. Obesity is among the highest risk factors for developing critical illness following covid infection. If tackling obesity is an aim then perhaps the discount would be more wisely focused at some kind of healthy food joints. 

That was my first thought. And how is it ok to use taxpayer money to basically bribe people to eat out who might be staying away from restaurants for good financial or covid safety sense. Why not focus on getting gyms and health centres back open safely and discount them instead?

The job retention bonus also seems a dud. If there's no work for the next 5/6 months then keeping someone on just to get £1k back in January isn't gonna swing it. But will be a nice little windfall for companies that were bringing people back anyway.

[petejh]

Yep the £1k for employers seems mostly wasteful. If they'd targeted it at small businesses - let's say for e.g. less than 5 employees - then I can see how it may help those employers choose to keep on a staff member.

The obesity thing is a bugbear of mine. People self-destroying their health don't need extra financial help to keep on doing it. In fact this scheme is illustrative of the complete failure of all governments, sugar tax excepted, to do anything serious about obesity. There won't be a better opportunity than covid-19 to try to change people's health choices. Unless covid 2031 is even more lethal to the obese.

[tomtom]

Rishi’s plans getting it in the neck From a range of experts on the 1pm bbc news... then ‘justified’ by the reporter...

[ali k]

Yep the £1k for employers seems mostly wasteful.

HMRC permanent secretary sounds like he agrees. But what do mere civil servants know eh? ("Fuck all" says Cummings). Sunak's justification this morning for the accepted 'dead weight loss' was that it was a policy that had to be implemented at speed. The initial furlough scheme I can understand had to be put in place rapidly with very little notice so just a blanket approach is forgiveable. But Sunak's known he was going to wind up the furlough scheme for months now, so surely there's been time to come up with a more targeted and less wasteful policy?

[sdm]

Accelerating the death of cash might be one of the unintended positive consequences of covid-19.

Positive? I am not so sure.  There are people at the bottom - not necessarily fraudulent- end of the economy who are dependent on cash transactions.

Is there anything about cash that a vulnerable person depends on?

All I see cash as is an inefficient way of getting money from one bank account to another. Wages, pensions, benefits, company funds and public funds all go through bank accounts. Cash is an inefficient, insecure, time consuming, unhygienic middle man. Am I missing something?

Norway and other countries have gone effectively cashless and I'm not aware of it having caused any problems among the poorest people.

Card data is also data, privacy implications unavoidable.

This might become a problem in the future. I have been effectively cashless for at least 3 years and have not seen any negative consequences of it as of yet. If privacy is the primary concern, there are also alternatives to cash or card that are far more secure and entirely untraceable.

[sdm]

The UK has the worst obesity rate in Europe. Obesity is among the highest risk factors for developing critical illness following covid infection. If tackling obesity is an aim then perhaps the discount would be more wisely focused at some kind of healthy food joints. 

That was my first thought. And how is it ok to use taxpayer money to basically bribe people to eat out who might be staying away from restaurants for good financial or covid safety sense. Why not focus on getting gyms and health centres back open safely and discount them instead?

I would like to see the eat out scheme more focused on healthier food/lifestyles but I'm not sure how you would achieve that without massively increasing the admin costs. It would be great for covid-19 to be used as an opportunity to improve healthy living and help the environment.

I don't see myself eating inside at a restaurant, going to a barber or going to an indoors climbing wall or gym while covid-19 is still an issue unless there is a big shift in our understanding and/or protection measures. I don't think adequate protection measures exist for any of the above based on our current understanding. The scheme may be enough to see me go to some local independents to eat outside that I might not otherwise have gone too.

The job retention bonus also seems a dud. If there's no work for the next 5/6 months then keeping someone on just to get £1k back in January isn't gonna swing it. But will be a nice little windfall for companies that were bringing people back anyway.

It will make a difference to the borderline cases. It's around a 15% saving on the average wage and I suspect is a much higher proportion of the average furloughed employee's wage. That will be enough to change the outcome for companies that expect the hurt to be temporary.

It's going to be poor value for money for firms in a better position where jobs would have been retained anyway. It's still £1000 going back in to the economy which may be seen as a win, regardless of who it is going to. It's not going to help people where their job still isn't viable but a lot of jobs wouldn't be saved by any scheme that has a realistic chance of being passed.

I would like to see schemes that are more targeted and more assistance to those who will be hardest hit with an effort for those who have fallen between the cracks of the initial schemes. It is possible that this is being introduced as the initial blunt instrument and that there will be better fine tuning later on. I won't be holding my breath though.

[petejh]

The term 'falling between the cracks' is easily over-used.

There are many people who through no fault of their own have 'fallen through the cracks' and missed out on covid financial support but are completely deserving of the same support as everyone else.
Then there are some other people, who many would still label as having 'fallen between the cracks', who I would label as having avidly searched out any hint of a crack and forced themselves through that crack with determination and a crowbar, to hide under society's floorboards in order to avoid contributing tax. The self-employed ltd. company sole trader who pays themselves a dividend instead of a wage, avoids NI contributions and contributes absolutely minimal income tax/corporation tax by writing off all possible gains against fictitious business expenses for their fictitious contracting/consulting/construction company. Yet they live in a society that benefits from modern transport infrastructure, law and order, hospitals, schools, local facilities. Obviously there are plenty of sole trader ltd. companies acting in good faith and contributing their fair share; but the ones who choose to act cynically are parasites on society imo. And I accept the line is blurry between independent entrepreneurial spirits defending hard-earned wealth from high taxes / and being a cynical parasitical muthafucka.
Some corporations and individuals with offshore wealth also act along similar lines, but many have at least some virtue of providing employment for others.

[Doylo]

The latest one from the jobs WhatsApp groups I’m in from the one man limited companies is taking out the Covid bounce back loans (up to 50K for some) then folding their business next year so they don’t have to pay them back (they’re underwritten by the Government). Some are using them to buy extra houses etc..

[tomtom]

To paraphrase a tweet I read - the government seems very willing to give people who can afford to eat out a tenner towards their meal - but had to be dragged and shamed by a footballer into continuing free school meal vouchers of £3 per pupil per day....

[sdm]

The term 'falling between the cracks' is easily over-used.

Yes, I want help for those who have genuinely fallen through the cracks.

Those who crowbarred themselves through dishonestly can go whistle and I hope anyone defrauding the help schemes ends up in jail.

[Offwidth]

The term 'falling between the cracks' is easily over-used.

There are many people who through no fault of their own have 'fallen through the cracks' and missed out on covid financial support but are completely deserving of the same support as everyone else.
Then there are some other people, who many would still label as having 'fallen between the cracks', who I would label as having avidly searched out any hint of a crack and forced themselves through that crack with determination and a crowbar, to hide under society's floorboards in order to avoid contributing tax. The self-employed ltd. company sole trader who pays themselves a dividend instead of a wage, avoids NI contributions and contributes absolutely minimal income tax/corporation tax by writing off all possible gains against fictitious business expenses for their fictitious contracting/consulting/construction company. Yet they live in a society that benefits from modern transport infrastructure, law and order, hospitals, schools, local facilities. Obviously there are plenty of sole trader ltd. companies acting in good faith and contributing their fair share; but the ones who choose to act cynically are parasites on society imo. And I accept the line is blurry between independent entrepreneurial spirits defending hard-earned wealth from high taxes / and being a cynical parasitical muthafucka.
Some corporations and individuals with offshore wealth also act along similar lines, but many have at least some virtue of providing employment for others.

We did this before Pete. From those sole trader crooks you know you cynically extrapolated to the majority. Most I know are the opposite (mainly science based). Plus the revenue are not completely stupid and would have adjusted the tax law if the problem was as large as you claim, as they did before, for sole trader (I owe quite a few in IT) working just for one company. In any case it takes massive brass to stick your name in local news story as having no money if you have loads.

[petejh]

I neither extrapolated to the majority, nor claimed the problem was large. The people doing it are available to me as I see them - I’m not dumb enough to think my availability bias means everyone’s doing it.
I think you’d see that if you read what I actually wrote OW, rather than reading what you think I meant.

And we’ve done that before too.

[ali k]

The government are about as far from being guided by science as you can imagine. 
Interesting experiment is right on the money; an experiment in government by focus group (which the government spends millions a week on)

Of which at least one contract has been awarded without tender to another set of Cummings’ Brexiteer pals. There’s a theme emerging here and it stinks.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jul/10/firm-with-links-to-gove-and-cummings-given-covid-19-contract-without-open-tender?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

[TobyD]

Hancock told the today programme this morning that the government won't mandate masks in offices. Expect masks to be compulsory in offices next week. 

[Nutty]

Hancock told the today programme this morning that the government won't mandate masks in offices. Expect masks to be compulsory in offices next week.

Well they'll announce that masks will be manadatory within a week, but won't actually make them mandatory for another 10 days after that.

[mrjonathanr]

The contract for 250m masks will be awarded without tender to a fast food entrepreneur who happened to be Gove’s best man. No contract will be produced to the public. They won’t be delivered and the £25m spent will be written off.

1990s sleaze and cronyism is back, and then some.

[TobyD]

1990s sleaze and cronyism is back, and then some.

I slightly differ with you on this one. I think it's much worse now, nineties style was fiddling a few grand for a new moat or conservatory; now it's more like giving every job to a talentless brown noser like Grayling or Hancock and let a dangerous idealoge make all the decisions such as trashing the economy with a triple whammy of leaving the EU, censuring Huawei in the middle of a pandemic and economic crisis. 

[James Malloch]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jul/15/coronavirus-contracts-government-transparency-pandemic

This article highlighted quite a few of these contracts:

£32m to PestFix to supply PPE which has not yet reached the NHS.
£18m to an employment agency to supply face masks
£100m to a confectionary wholesaler to supply PPE
£250m to a “family office” in Mauritius specialising in currency trading to supply PPE.

What a fucking farce.

[tomtom]

Though I’ve just had 50 face masks arrive at in good time from a company set up in a month or so by two recent graduates (maskbros.co.uk).

Maybe it isn’t that hard?

The lack of transparency/clarity in the (non) bidding process isn’t great though..

[SA Chris]

I think it's much worse now, nineties style was fiddling a few grand for a new moat or conservatory; now it's more like giving every job to a talentless brown noser like Grayling or Hancock and let a dangerous idealoge make all the decisions such as trashing the economy with a triple whammy of leaving the EU, censuring Huawei in the middle of a pandemic and economic crisis.

Agree. Back then it was all on the sly, and a bit of cash here and there. This is all done blatantly and openly and with it being  under the auspice of "protecting the people" it looks like they are treating it as open season and just hemorrhaging money to anyone who they like.

[Offwidth]

Incident at my Sainsbury petrol station yesterday. They had no gloves. I pointed this out when paying and that it was a H&S issue for using the pumps. The assistant manager came out of the back and was pretty aggressive that the gloves are complementary there is no legal requirement to provide them and they couldn't get hold of any anywhere. I said this didn't negate the H&S issues nor the customer service. Anyone got any idea if there is a real big picture issue with obtaining disposable gloves or do I need to complain.

Sorry meant to post this on the main covid thread.

[T_B]

Incident at my Sainsbury petrol station yesterday. They had no gloves. I pointed this out when paying and that it was a H&S issue for using the pumps. The assistant manager came out of the back and was pretty aggressive that the gloves are complementary there is no legal requirement to provide them and they couldn't get hold of any anywhere. I said this didn't negate the H&S issues nor the customer service. Anyone got any idea if there is a real big picture issue with obtaining disposable gloves or do I need to complain.

Sorry meant to post this on the main covid thread.

You need whatever the guys who left their pads at Lees are smokin'.

[Davo]

We run a Physio practice and have had no problem sourcing gloves

[Offwidth]

Thanks Davo. I was thinking cheap disposable one use gloves not working gloves