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Coronavirus Covid-19: Schools opening (Read 24755 times)

SA Chris

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I will, although mine is an out and out Tory meatpuppet and an utter cretin.

Wil

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I think I've demonstrated the government's one prime ability here - deflection. By even thinking that this "plan" for tuition looks viable it's distracted me from the big picture of whether schools are!

danm

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Judging by the numbers of bored looking groups of youths closely hanging out with each other outside, any concerns regarding social distancing in schools are fairly moot. At least it will be something schools can at least attempt to establish some control over?

Personally I'm aghast that a decent plan hasn't been enacted to get schools ready for September. It was a golden opportunity missed - empty buildings and plenty of people with not much to do is the perfect time to build extra classroom capacity where possible. The sector could have been transformed. With the infrastructure in place a recruitment campaign could have been started which combined with a phased re-introduction of pupils from part-time to full-time in school over the first term would see us with smaller more manageable classes in bigger classrooms to help reduce transmission risks.

Unfortunately everything this government touch seems to turn to shit. Let's call it the Boris Touch.

SA Chris

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Starts August here.

I think building extra capacity would be impossible in the time available, considering the process involved and resources required, and (hopefully) that this is not going to be a permanent need.

ali k

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It's a disaster. This is what I wrote to my MP:
It would be great if you guys and girls could write to yours too.
I have done already regarding this and a whole host of other things. I’m not a teacher and don’t have kids but I realise how important schools reopening is and what a shit show it’s been. On top of it all the blatant attempts to shift blame onto anyone but themselves is just infuriating.

mrjonathanr

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This is an interesting article comparing 2 boys' schools in Greater Manchester.. https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/jun/19/its-a-basic-equality-issue-home-learning-gap-between-state-and-private-schools

Not interesting because a 500 year old top class independent school is faring rather better than a nearby state school, but because the state school facing barriers to provision is really, really good. It is not an average comp by any stretch. Having been in it, I know. So if they are up against it, what hope the average community comp?

Ged

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There seems to be no plan worked out for anything more than headlines.

I can't be the only one finding this aspect of the crisis a little terrifying. There doesn't seem to be a plan for anything at all.

You are definitely not the only one. I had my first day back teaching today. My school have done an incredible job of getting the place ready for Y10 and y12. But we have heard absolutely nothing that is in any way helpful for what may or may not happen in September. Not a sniff. It's a total shambles, and I would say verging on a whole new chapter of crisis. Schools are doing everything they can, and it's very much despite the government rather than because of. They should genuinely be very very ashamed of the handling of this. What is an education secretary actually doing all these months?

ali k

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There seems to be no plan worked out for anything more than headlines.
I can't be the only one finding this aspect of the crisis a little terrifying. There doesn't seem to be a plan for anything at all.
And all this before the REALLY difficult phase to come that involves getting the economy properly back on its feet, together with all the necessary restructuring and repurposing of sectors, businesses, jobs that are no longer viable. There is a lot of self congratulation from the govt about the furlough scheme, which is about the only thing they seem to have done even vaguely right, but that is essentially just a logistical exercise involving distributing lots of money. It’s not exactly comparable with the challenges that lie ahead, which is what terrifies me.

Ged

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The latest announcement from Williamson seems to amount to "we can't really think of any sort of plan, so why don't you all just crack on as normal from September".

With the usual "more details to follow" and "watch this space" comments, which imply that they didn't really start thinking about this until everyone started suggesting that they should.

What really grates is the "we've been doing this" type comments from him. Have you though Gav? Or have schools been doing that whilst you make vague statements from a distance, and do basically nothing that would qualify as planning.

Davo

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I have followed this thread with some interest for a while as we have a six year old (in year 1) who is an only child and we have just sent him back this week. I would say that my experience of our local school (nice catchment area) is very different to what has been described many here.

Basically since the school closed we have had very little support from school. We get a weekly letter via email with a link to a couple of websites and told to do stuff from that. The websites are good and have been very helpful and would be a great start and way of keeping things uniform if the class teacher had also been active and keeping in touch and potentially doing some videos etc. However there has been no attempt to communicate on a more individual basis and there have been no videos or attempts at anything creative from the two class teachers of the year group. As far as I can see until the change in position from the govt the class teachers were on full pay doing very little each week. Once the govt announced the intention to re open we have then had a bit of communication but in general it has not been good, clear or well thought through. The school for no clear reason opened up to year 1 and reception 2 weeks after the supposed date and it is a general feeling that this was just a delaying tactic. I personally feel that they were just waiting to see if they would actually have to open... There have been some letters home explaining that they have not been given enough time to organise the return. My feeling on this is that there was ample time in the period of 8 weeks full lockdown to investigate the practicalities and have a partial plan. Being given a month to get things sorted seems adequate to me for a primary school.

I offer my experience as a counter to the general feeling on the thread that the govt has done a crap job in terms of education. I am no supporter of the conservatives but am not really sure that they have done such a bad job here. I am not sure why it is not reasonable to tell schools to make plans and get on with opening? Yes there are always going to be issues and it may involve extra work but this is not a normal period of time and we all need to pull together.

To try and re open our business we worked with very little support or guidance and needed to do an enormous amount of reading through guidance and planning. I didn’t honestly think that it was the government’s job to come up with a detailed plan for us. I think it is fair to say that was my job in the same way that I think individual schools have the responsibility to have been planning and organizing to get kids back.

Potentially I might feel differently if our local school had been proactive and it was clear that the teachers were working through this period.

Anyway for a bit of background; I am in general a supporter of education, teachers and schools and was in the past a teacher myself. In usual times  I would be defending teachers and criticizing the govt in terms of funding and resources etc but these are not normal times and I think it is okay to ask people to do more than usual and take more responsibility than usual for the greater good.

sxrxg

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Davo I am sorry to hear about your experience as our experience has been totally different. We have a 5 year old in primary and the school communication has been clear and detailed at all times. They stayed open throughout for key workers children including over the holidays, they reopened as soon as possible on for reception and year 6 as per guidance having to close again after 2 days due to a rise in the local R value. As soon as new data became available they opened again though on the Friday not waiting until the Monday. My son has returned on every day they have been open and is loving being back in school, the environment is very different with separate desks more outdoor activities and a coloured bubble of children he can interact with whilst this may sound daunting to us the kids seem to have adapted remarkably well.

Also when they have been off the teachers seem to have been working very hard, there was an initial period with no contact for the first week of lockdown however since then we have had regular work posted to the online portal along with links to various online resources (including a brilliant online library of books that has been brilliant on the tablet), phone calls to speak to the children individually, comments on any of the children's work that is posted to the online resource, videos congratulating the children individually. Also group video stories and pieces of work that the teachers have prepared at home. Whilst all these resources and help has been made available there has been no pressure from the school for parents to do anything, they are very understanding of different situations and don't seem to be pressurising parents into trying to get through a set amount of work.

From reading this thread i feel very lucky that he is in the school he is.

mrjonathanr

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Hi Davo I am sorry to hear that your school has left things to drift. My daughter is in Y5 and for 2 weeks they did exactly what you describe with websites and emails but no planning. I was very unimpressed, but they have Ben using google classroom effectively since Easter. It took till last week to receive a Zoom call from the teacher though; I do wonder how they have fulfilled their safeguarding obligations without home contact.

Schools have been attempting to teach and plan for a return. A few schools may not have been doing this as they should; many will have been working flat out. Yours sounds like an exception, though I am disappointed in some respects with my daughter’s school too.

They can only plan for what their employer tells them to though. When that is constantly changing  (c 200 changes to the guidance for schools so far), constantly comes through without warning, is not accompanied by consultation and objectives (to get kids back) are contradicted by restrictions (2m distance), it seems reasonable to say the DfE is not doing its job. They set the rules but do not provide or discuss the plan to implement them.

How do you keep hundreds of children in an enclosed space 2m apart, not touching the same objects and then cleaning common surfaces before another child touches them? It can be done, but you cannot have full occupancy. You need small groups, rotas, extra cleaning staff, staggered times, classroom left empty for cleaning, storage space for the stripped out furniture and so on. The DfE has not done its job to enable this for all children and no amount of Williamson airily saying that they aspire to achieve these things makes them any closer to happening.

Expecting the teachers to teach, senior leaders to plan- this is what they are paid for. But they aren’t paid to organise and implement policy at the DfE and I don’t think it reasonable to expect them to.

Where are we going with secondaries? You could teach Humanities, Social Sciences, Languages, Maths and English in a single classroom the kids to reduce transmission. But it would all be mixed ability teaching, no sets. The kid aiming for 9 gets the same teacher in front of them as the 3/4 border child. But Science, PE, Music, Art, Drama and DT? A stationary model will not work for them. Where is the proper discussion with schools about what to do in September?

« Last Edit: June 20, 2020, 10:06:56 am by mrjonathanr »

Scouse D

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I've been in school a few times over the past 4 weeks and we are partially opening up to y10 and 12 but I cannot see how we can go anywhere near full capacity unless everybody just accepts that the notion of social distancing has to be scrapped if schools are to open.
For context, I am a chemistry teacher. A lab in my school has a capacity for 24 students sitting side by with about 30cm between shoulders. Typically though we have classes of 30 to 33 in such a lab so students are very closely packed. There is no magic bigger lab or even spare room that will appear. There is no magic spare teacher which will appear.
These students move to a new room after a 50min lesson and a new batch moves in.
The notion that during this time schools could have built extra capacity is really not a well considered proposition at all. The ideas that in a 3 month timescale you could build new classrooms and recruit enough new teachers is laughable.

If, as parents you want your kids back in school in september then you are just going to have to accept that we wont be able to keep your kids safe. This sounds like the only way it can work.
I am a parent of 3 kids and I know that if I want my kids in school I will just have to accept the same thing.


Davo

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Hi MrJonathanR

Thanks for your reply, much appreciated. I find myself quite torn here because on the one hand I mostly agree with what you say and describe - although I am not so sure that our primary is the exception. I think the other local primary schools have been a bit better but not great either.

I find it difficult to comment upon the situation facing any secondary school as it is clearly on a different scale. As you mention I don’t think social distancing and all the issues you describe can be solved. My guess is that apart from better hygiene procedures there is little that secondary schools can do.

In terms of primary schools I generally think they have had enough notice and enough time to plan for what they needed to do. In terms of returning in September for our primary I would assume that it will have to be a full return of all kids or they will not be able to fully re open.

Davo

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If, as parents you want your kids back in school in september then you are just going to have to accept that we wont be able to keep your kids safe. This sounds like the only way it can work.
I am a parent of 3 kids and I know that if I want my kids in school I will just have to accept the same thing.

Completely agree with this. This is basically where I and my partner are at. I think we have come to a point where to keep kids out of school for much longer risks a large amount of harm and personally I think it is best they return in September and we accept these risks

tomtom

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The decision to have your kids back with no distancing would be much easier if there were c.100 new cases a day (or less) instead of the 1200-1500 new cases a day we have now.

Regardless of that - if I were a parent with a ongoing health issue making me (or anyone else in the house) vulnerable - I Would be pretty worried about a non distanced return etc....

spidermonkey09

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The decision to have your kids back with no distancing would be much easier if there were c.100 new cases a day (or less) instead of the 1200-1500 new cases a day we have now.

Regardless of that - if I were a parent with a ongoing health issue making me (or anyone else in the house) vulnerable - I Would be pretty worried about a non distanced return etc....

I am not a parent so obviously these issues are less confronting for me, but surely this scenario basically comes down to a judgement call: kids education vs perceived health risk? As others have pointed out a non distanced return seems the only realistic option, regardless of when it takes place.

I agree Williamson has been completely useless and i think its basically certain he will be jettisoned in the next reshuffle (probably along with Hancock...). That said, I sympathise because as Scouse has pointed out, one cant magic up new classrooms and new teachers in a three month period so the whole concept was doomed to failure it seems to me.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2020, 01:57:49 pm by spidermonkey09 »

chris j

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The decision to have your kids back with no distancing would be much easier if there were c.100 new cases a day (or less) instead of the 1200-1500 new cases a day we have now.

This depends very much where you are in the country and I think a regional approach based on if there are cases in each education authority/school catchment would be more appropriate than the blanket national approach. Eg Devon with ~5 documented cases a week (my wife who is an avid devourer of statistics tells me...) vs Leicester with 200 or so a week recently. Given the hotspot clusters of cases there are probably quite a few areas where schools could be safely fully open right now.

Will Hunt

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Sprog #1's (3yo) first day back at nursery today. Fingers crossed.

Oldmanmatt

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The decision to have your kids back with no distancing would be much easier if there were c.100 new cases a day (or less) instead of the 1200-1500 new cases a day we have now.

This depends very much where you are in the country and I think a regional approach based on if there are cases in each education authority/school catchment would be more appropriate than the blanket national approach. Eg Devon with ~5 documented cases a week (my wife who is an avid devourer of statistics tells me...) vs Leicester with 200 or so a week recently. Given the hotspot clusters of cases there are probably quite a few areas where schools could be safely fully open right now.

I was just struck by your wife’s spotting of the Leicester outbreak, two weeks before the government...

Oldmanmatt

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