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Climbing during CV-19 (Read 288185 times)

tomtom

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#625 Re: Climbing during CV-19
April 01, 2020, 12:57:33 pm
So Will, you seem to be basically pointing out (several times) that the government guidelines could (if within interpretation of reasonable) allow someone to go climbing. Why? (Do you keep pointing it out?)

Nearly everyone in here and the BMC etc.. is saying don’t whatsoever.

I’m not trying to wind you up - just don’t get why you keep posting this? 🤷‍♂️

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#626 Re: Climbing during CV-19
April 01, 2020, 01:10:02 pm
I figure Ru probably has the definitive post of the the thread.
After all, you may end up having to justify your actions to somebody rather like him, probably less sympathetic.

Seems a pricy and long winded risk to take.

Has anybody factored that into their risk assessment?

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#627 Re: Climbing during CV-19
April 01, 2020, 01:42:41 pm
Yes, if anyone asks my name, I am going to say it's Will Hunt.

(edit: only joking, in case it isn't obvious)

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#628 Re: Climbing during CV-19
April 01, 2020, 01:46:16 pm
I'm Will Hunt (and so is my spotter).

Duma

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#629 Re: Climbing during CV-19
April 01, 2020, 02:05:45 pm
So Will, you seem to be basically pointing out (several times) that the government guidelines could (if within interpretation of reasonable) allow someone to go climbing. Why? (Do you keep pointing it out?)

Nearly everyone in here and the BMC etc.. is saying don’t whatsoever.

I’m not trying to wind you up - just don’t get why you keep posting this? 🤷‍♂️

I guess because he feels like he is being shamed/guilted/disapproved of for considering a course of action within the law, police guidelines, and government guidelines. (I'm not saying people meant to, but can see why he might feel like that) FWIW I can't see the issue with walking to obscure safe bouldering. I live within walking distance of Avon gorge, but wouldn't consider it for obvious reasons (didn't stop at least one pair a couple of days ago though)

Oldmanmatt

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#630 Re: Climbing during CV-19
April 01, 2020, 02:22:51 pm
So Will, you seem to be basically pointing out (several times) that the government guidelines could (if within interpretation of reasonable) allow someone to go climbing. Why? (Do you keep pointing it out?)

Nearly everyone in here and the BMC etc.. is saying don’t whatsoever.

I’m not trying to wind you up - just don’t get why you keep posting this? 🤷‍♂️

I guess because he feels like he is being shamed/guilted/disapproved of for considering a course of action within the law, police guidelines, and government guidelines. (I'm not saying people meant to, but can see why he might feel like that) FWIW I can't see the issue with walking to obscure safe bouldering. I live within walking distance of Avon gorge, but wouldn't consider it for obvious reasons (didn't stop at least one pair a couple of days ago though)

See, this is what I don’t get.

Will, if you want to go and feel you can justify it within your individual context and explain such convincingly to the authorities (in the unlikely event you are “caught”) go. Same applies for most things/sports.

I mean, why ask, or even mention it, unless you were unsure of your argument?

Not surprising that people have differing views.
Though, probably, those views differ in the main, because those people are applying their own context to the situation.

If the crag was in your garden. Nobody would object.if
If the crag was across a single lane road, from your front door. Nobody would object.
If the crag was across the field in front/behind of your house. Nobody would object.

Etc etc.

If the crag is a 20/30 minute drive away (that would take me from Torquay to Exeter, or an inter city and absolutely inter community trip (actually I’d cross several “wards” in that trip)) then it’s absolutely going to piss somebody off.

Just keep it on the down-low and use some sense.

petejh

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#631 Re: Climbing during CV-19
April 01, 2020, 02:26:12 pm
You could frame this issue more generally:

Speeding is proven to be a contributory factor in %x of all RTAs
There are laws against speeding, but not laws against driving at too high a speed for the given conditions and circumstances, for e.g. a 50mph speed limit - even though allowed by law - may be too fast on a twisty country single-carriageway covered in leaves on a rainy dark night.
I sometimes speed.
People who know me probably realise that I sometimes speed.
Other people sometimes speed.
People they know probably realise that they sometimes speed.
Speeding is considered socially acceptable differently by different people, on an arbitrary scale that I just invented of '1' - 'completely unacceptable in all circumstances' to '10'- 'completely acceptable in all circumstances'.

For bouldering see 'speeding'.

petejh

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#632 Re: Climbing during CV-19
April 01, 2020, 02:34:02 pm

If the crag was in your garden. Nobody would object.if


I think you could still find people who'd object.

Also, see 'Garden, lawnmowers, risk of' (Lee et al, 2020)

Oldmanmatt

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#633 Re: Climbing during CV-19
April 01, 2020, 03:35:20 pm

If the crag was in your garden. Nobody would object.if


I think you could still find people who'd object.

Also, see 'Garden, lawnmowers, risk of' (Lee et al, 2020)

I just pissed myself with laughter, in the queue to get into the co op, and now have no way to explain my apparent lunacy.

On the plus side, this has increased my social distancing.

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#634 Re: Climbing during CV-19
April 01, 2020, 03:38:55 pm
You could frame this issue more generally:

Speeding is proven to be a contributory factor in %x of all RTAs
There are laws against speeding, but not laws against driving at too high a speed for the given conditions and circumstances, for e.g. a 50mph speed limit - even though allowed by law - may be too fast on a twisty country single-carriageway covered in leaves on a rainy dark night.
I sometimes speed.
People who know me probably realise that I sometimes speed.
Other people sometimes speed.
People they know probably realise that they sometimes speed.
Speeding is considered socially acceptable differently by different people, on an arbitrary scale that I just invented of '1' - 'completely unacceptable in all circumstances' to '10'- 'completely acceptable in all circumstances'.

For bouldering see 'speeding'.

What about speeding whilst texting ?  ;) :lol:

Doylo

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#635 Re: Climbing during CV-19
April 01, 2020, 03:39:18 pm
Only joking , he doesn’t do that.

Will Hunt

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#636 Re: Climbing during CV-19
April 01, 2020, 05:34:20 pm
I wrote a big long reply to TT's question and the UKB gremlins threw it in the bin. Now I can't be bothered to rewrite it.

tomtom

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#637 Re: Climbing during CV-19
April 01, 2020, 05:41:03 pm
That happens to me often too. If you go back on the browser it’s often still there.

I wasn’t soliciting a long response though! 😱

Rob F

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#638 Re: Climbing during CV-19
April 01, 2020, 07:41:13 pm
Will's on a roll this year, I can see it's frustrating.

The antidote: learning to derive enormous satisfaction from a daily sesh involving Randall's finger board mini campussing...

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#639 Re: Climbing during CV-19
April 01, 2020, 08:30:19 pm
Anyone considered the impact of having your car sat doing nothing for extended periods of time?

Yup, drove my van to go shopping the other day to give it a run out after sitting on the drive for 10days. 5 miles in, flashing coil warning light. Probably EGR or injector gone..... only £800. Bollocks

Will Hunt

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#640 Re: Climbing during CV-19
April 01, 2020, 08:40:20 pm
OK. Will write a quick response.

Firstly, I have no intention of flouting the guidance or the law. Because it's very important. Obviously.

But also, I don't think there is a broad consensus on here that there should be a complete and absolute moratorium on all climbing. Lots of people have acknowledged that there are limited forms of climbing that could very reasonably take place. But still this shaming attitude from some (whose circumstances generally, I suspect, preclude them from doing any climbing because they are either too far from the rock or the rock that is within walking distance isn't really suitable). I think that's poor. It shouldn't be phrased as a question of what we can "get away with". When it comes to severe restrictions on civil liberties the goal should be to restrict them as little as possible while achieving the objective. Some examples off the top of my head: I can see a probably unrepeated 7B+ from my upstairs window and there's a 7A+ that's probably only been done twice within a mile of the house; turnip lives right at the foot of the approach path to Rylstone; Adi lives under Baildon Bank; what if you lived in one of those houses that backs onto Longridge?

As Ru pointed out, the law on this has not changed. Nor will it be updated since the HoP is no longer functioning. But the way that the police interpret and enforce the law has changed, and this is the way that the public is going to interface with this law in the first instance. We are all allowed to go out to undertake reasonable exercise. We've had lots of examples on this thread of how climbing could be considered reasonable exercise - neither increasing the risk of infection or of becoming a burden on the NHS.

Personally, even if the police have relaxed the rules on driving for exercise, I am not going to start driving. I live in a BD postcode, so any driving carries a high risk of being obliterated by a 17 year old driving an enormous Range Rover. I don't fully agree with JB's point about driving out to Burbage Bridge. If it's OK for him to go and inspect his fiefdom then it will immediately become OK for half a million other people - all of whom are clawing at the walls to get out into the Peak. He does have a point though that we shouldn't be so quick to surrender our hard won and hard kept freedoms without good cause. I can only imagine what the gamekeepers are doing to raptors now that there are no potential witnesses up there.


If that's all TL;DR, then the shortest answer to your question, TT, is that the legislation used the word "reasonable", which immediately triggers my natural instinct to try and pull those words to pieces and test what they really mean.

tomtom

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#641 Re: Climbing during CV-19
April 01, 2020, 08:43:25 pm
Anyone considered the impact of having your car sat doing nothing for extended periods of time?

Yup, drove my van to go shopping the other day to give it a run out after sitting on the drive for 10days. 5 miles in, flashing coil warning light. Probably EGR or injector gone..... only £800. Bollocks

Maybe let it get really warm (leave it running on the drive for an hour or so)? Give it some revs and see if it clears things out?

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#642 Re: Climbing during CV-19
April 01, 2020, 08:49:14 pm
Anyone considered the impact of having your car sat doing nothing for extended periods of time?

Yup, drove my van to go shopping the other day to give it a run out after sitting on the drive for 10days. 5 miles in, flashing coil warning light. Probably EGR or injector gone..... only £800. Bollocks
  That sucks.. Haven’t been anywhere in mine since the 11th March, don’t do a shop run because I am protecting my wife whom is ‘high risk’ (we get get stuff delivered).  Started first time yesterday, just, battery definitely close to being drained. I have a charger so not too worried about that but probably could do with taking it for a spin.  Maybe I can combine with some reasonable exercise, I can hit single trackers straight from home and get access to some different footpaths.

Oldmanmatt

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#643 Re: Climbing during CV-19
April 01, 2020, 09:08:57 pm
Pop the terminals off and stick them in a plastic bag.

You can google “winterising diesel engines” too. Most yachties have to do this sort of thing  frequently .

As I said though, I’ve never done more than have someone move it in place, even when I spent 13 months on expedition/hunting drug smugglers.

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#644 Re: Climbing during CV-19
April 01, 2020, 11:01:02 pm

We are all allowed to go out to undertake reasonable exercise. We've had lots of examples on this thread of how climbing could be considered reasonable exercise - neither increasing the risk of infection or of becoming a burden on the NHS.

Amen.

Not suggesting people go to stanage. I have some very obscure rocks within near walking distance and it covers the almost zero risk part option.

Although I do acknowledge something was probably required to reduce traffic. It is hard to get the balance. It just grates on me that people can go for 20 mile runs, or massive rides and I cant go bouldering 5 mins from mine.

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#645 Re: Climbing during CV-19
April 01, 2020, 11:07:17 pm
If that's all TL;DR, then the shortest answer to your question, TT, is that the legislation used the word "reasonable", which immediately triggers my natural instinct to try and pull those words to pieces and test what they really mean.

If you want a slightly cynical answer, "reasonable," firstly means whatever the police, influenced by the media, say it means. Until you get arrested. After that it means whatever the CPS thinks it means. Then what a magistrate thinks it means. If you're still not happy, it means whatever a judge of the administrative court thinks it means. After that you've run out of money to ask anyone else. The overall point is that none of these people are likely to be liberal leaning, yet sensible, climbers, so it doesn't matter what we think it means.

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#646 Re: Climbing during CV-19
April 02, 2020, 07:47:14 am
Will im not sure what your hoping to achieve here but if your worried about being shamed for climbing why don't you just go climbing and keep quiet about it. I dont think the bmc or anyone is going to start surveilance on your house ready to shame you if you venture outside to one of your local boulders. Hopefully that sounds reasonable and we can all go climbing again soon.

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#647 Re: Climbing during CV-19
April 02, 2020, 07:47:32 am

We are all allowed to go out to undertake reasonable exercise. We've had lots of examples on this thread of how climbing could be considered reasonable exercise - neither increasing the risk of infection or of becoming a burden on the NHS.

Amen.

Not suggesting people go to stanage. I have some very obscure rocks within near walking distance and it covers the almost zero risk part option.

Although I do acknowledge something was probably required to reduce traffic. It is hard to get the balance. It just grates on me that people can go for 20 mile runs, or massive rides and I cant go bouldering 5 mins from mine.

I think the underlying issues is; while we as climbers, might consider low ball bouldering very low risk, to the wider society this is probably perceived as quite high risk/ dangerous. So walking to the boulders with a crash pad on, in my opinion, you are basically just putting two fingers up to the rest of society.

On the flip side, seeing old, unfit, overweight men dusting off their mountain bikes/ road bikes for the first time in 10 years riding like they are back in their 20’s also makes me feel very uneasy! (Don’t get me wrong, it’s bloody brilliant people are using this as an excuse to get fit and healthy)

Also, to put this all in a bit of context, I recommend going over and following pebble crusher on Instagram. Paramedic in London/Yorkshire...... he has put up some pretty telling stories!
 




« Last Edit: April 02, 2020, 07:58:53 am by turnipturned »

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#648 Re: Climbing during CV-19
April 02, 2020, 08:33:11 am
Although I do acknowledge something was probably required to reduce traffic. It is hard to get the balance. It just grates on me that people can go for 20 mile runs, or massive rides and I cant go bouldering 5 mins from mine.

Long 20 mile runs and massive bike rides are not in the spirit of the guidance either. One could argue that both could be classed as "reasonable", as we are doing with bouldering, but in reality, they aren't.

The idea is not to keep doing what you were pre lockdown, it's just to allow us to do enough to keep sane, fit and healthy.

Will Hunt

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#649 Re: Climbing during CV-19
April 02, 2020, 08:46:28 am
Will im not sure what your hoping to achieve here but if your worried about being shamed for climbing why don't you just go climbing and keep quiet about it. I dont think the bmc or anyone is going to start surveilance on your house ready to shame you if you venture outside to one of your local boulders. Hopefully that sounds reasonable and we can all go climbing again soon.

Well, Tom asked so I answered.

On the subject of those big runs and rides, what is it that makes it wrong? To me it's the risk of having a mechanical or accident or injury far from home and having to call on someone to come out and help you. If you're running and going through stiles and gates then you're possibly aiding transmission beyond your community.

But I suspect that some (kac/Nick/TT?) would say that additionally we should all be sacrificing as much as we possibly can?

 

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