UKBouldering.com

Climbing during CV-19 (Read 288161 times)

Falling Down

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 4880
  • Karma: +333/-4
    • bensblogredux
#25 Re: Climbing during CV-19
March 19, 2020, 03:54:35 pm
Get well soon Sean

petejh

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 5778
  • Karma: +622/-36
#26 Re: Climbing during CV-19
March 19, 2020, 04:26:42 pm
We're what, 4 days into more a restrictive  but not total lock-down lifestyle, and this thread points to why a long-term lock-down (more than 4 weeks) is going to be 'probably impractical' as per the SPI-M document.
When those pandemic modellers and behavioural scientists consider the human response to a long-term total lock-down I assume they don't just spend 30 minutes pondering it on their lunch break.. I assume they'll have based the 'probably impractical' assumption on evidence of the way people behave when asked to totally lock-down their lives and the likelihood of compliance over the long-term.
I think the reason we're contemplating one instead of sticking with the 'mitigate' strategy is because currently it's politically and emotionally unacceptable to consider the alternative.
At some point this year, if things play out as they seem likely to, that attitude will change. We'll probably become too weary, the economy too damaged, and unfortunately people become more numb to high death rates and they become abstract.

Alternatively, if we do totally lock-down soon and then within a couple of months a vaccine is miraculously developed then it will have been by far the best move to fully lock-down rather than selectively lock-down the most at-risk (i.e. mitigate).

(And get well Sean)

jwi

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 4219
  • Karma: +331/-1
    • On Steep Ground
#27 Re: Climbing during CV-19
March 19, 2020, 04:28:00 pm
If I have the Corona virus—which is not unlikely even if I have no symptoms as the incubation period can be up to 14 days and I have a job where I meet a lot of young people—I will quite likely have spread the virus to many, including a climbing partner with bronchitis who in this case will be quite likely to die.

For example.

Oldmanmatt

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • At this rate, I probably won’t last the week.
  • Posts: 7097
  • Karma: +368/-17
  • Largely broken. Obsolete spares and scrap only.
    • The Boulder Bunker climbing centre
#28 Re: Climbing during CV-19
March 19, 2020, 04:36:13 pm
If I have the Corona virus—which is not unlikely even if I have no symptoms as the incubation period can be up to 14 days and I have a job where I meet a lot of young people—I will quite likely have spread the virus to many, including a climbing partner with bronchitis who in this case will be quite likely to die.

For example.

Ouch.

I bet that hurts.

I cannot think of any rationale that makes anything you mentioned, your fault, though.
So, really hope you’re not navigating those waters.

Get well soon.

I expect most of us are heading into that story line.

Bonjoy

Offline
  • *****
  • Global Moderator
  • forum hero
  • Leafy gent
  • Posts: 9932
  • Karma: +561/-8
#29 Re: Climbing during CV-19
March 19, 2020, 05:06:04 pm
Hope you're well again soon Sean.
How's it going with you Falling Down?
I expect with the general lack of people taking social distancing seriously  in the UK we'll end up under lock-down within a week or two.
I live within 10-30 mins drive of loads of crags and I know loads of truly obscure places to hide on them.
I intend to climb on these on my own or with my son until there is a clear prohibition.
I might well change my mind though if it becomes clear climbers are failing to practice strict social distancing and the only option is to knock it on the head.


tomtom

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 20282
  • Karma: +641/-11
#30 Re: Climbing during CV-19
March 19, 2020, 05:15:31 pm
Hope you're well again soon Sean.
How's it going with you Falling Down?
I expect with the general lack of people taking social distancing seriously  in the UK we'll end up under lock-down within a week or two.
I live within 10-30 mins drive of loads of crags and I know loads of truly obscure places to hide on them.
I intend to climb on these on my own or with my son until there is a clear prohibition.
I might well change my mind though if it becomes clear climbers are failing to practice strict social distancing and the only option is to knock it on the head.

This exactly. Completely agree.

I’ve (now) stopped any long distance forays - there are plenty of obscure Lancs/Cheshire spots to go at. Today I went to the Wilton’s - no chalk anywhere. A caked chalk fest at a popular crag would be something I would certainly steer clear of.

User deactivated

Offline
  • ***
  • stalker
  • Posts: 286
  • Karma: +35/-0
#31 Re: Climbing during CV-19
March 19, 2020, 05:46:32 pm
Hope you're well again soon Sean.
How's it going with you Falling Down?
I expect with the general lack of people taking social distancing seriously  in the UK we'll end up under lock-down within a week or two.
I live within 10-30 mins drive of loads of crags and I know loads of truly obscure places to hide on them.
I intend to climb on these on my own or with my son until there is a clear prohibition.
I might well change my mind though if it becomes clear climbers are failing to practice strict social distancing and the only option is to knock it on the head.

This exactly. Completely agree.

I’ve (now) stopped any long distance forays - there are plenty of obscure Lancs/Cheshire spots to go at. Today I went to the Wilton’s - no chalk anywhere. A caked chalk fest at a popular crag would be something I would certainly steer clear of.

Would chalk have an effect on how long the virus is likely to stay present if on a surface/hold? Didn't realise that if so.

Like you I hope to still climb for the time being but won't be gong to any popular or roadside crags hopefully minimising the risk of spread. Last boulder I went to was tidal, a neat solution I thought haha.

Will Hunt

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Superworm is super-long
  • Posts: 7976
  • Karma: +631/-115
    • Unknown Stones
#32 Re: Climbing during CV-19
March 19, 2020, 05:51:47 pm
My wife and I are "doing" social distancing. There seems to be quite a few different thoughts about what we should be doing in the UK right now. Here is what the government's definition of social distancing is:

Quote
Avoid contact with someone who is displaying symptoms of coronavirus (COVID-19). These symptoms include high temperature and/or new and continuous cough
Avoid non-essential use of public transport, varying your travel times to avoid rush hour, when possible
Work from home, where possible. Your employer should support you to do this. Please refer to employer guidance for more information
Avoid large gatherings, and gatherings in smaller public spaces such as pubs, cinemas, restaurants, theatres, bars, clubs
Avoid gatherings with friends and family. Keep in touch using remote technology such as phone, internet, and social media
Use telephone or online services to contact your GP or other essential services
Everyone should be trying to follow these measures as much as is pragmatic.

We strongly advise you to follow the above measures as much as you can and to significantly limit your face-to-face interaction with friends and family if possible, particularly if you:

are over 70
have an underlying health condition
are pregnant

And in the section on staying sane:

Quote
You can also go for a walk outdoors if you stay more than 2 metres from others.

So going climbing on your own or with someone who lives with you is ok according to the guidance. As is walking in the hills. I think the biggest risks are fomite transmission, and not hurting yourself, either in the car on the way there or at the crag. Even if you don't have a ready partner in your household, you can reduce these risks by climbing at places with non-highball bouldering with good landings and driving carefully on the way there (I normally drive the road between Otley and Brimham at a swift, though legal pace, I'd probably slow it down a bit).

Hint: Burbage is not esoteric. There are lots of resources that can direct you to bouldering that is suitable.

shark

Offline
  • *****
  • Administrator
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 8697
  • Karma: +625/-17
  • insect overlord #1
#33 Re: Climbing during CV-19
March 19, 2020, 05:52:14 pm
Plenty of folk up at bbg today apparently....

What happens if (for example) you’re at remergence. Normally someone else comes along “do you mind if I join in etc..” - will this happen? Will people say piss off I was here first! Or an awkward British silence.

Not that many. Just me, Nick and Tom at Remergence. Someone was doing stuff in the vicinity and I asked whether he wanted a go on anything but he declined.

teestub

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 2574
  • Karma: +166/-4
  • Cyber Wanker
#34 Re: Climbing during CV-19
March 19, 2020, 05:56:52 pm

Hint: Burbage is not esoteric. There are lots of resources that can direct you to bouldering that is suitable.

Any ideas of websites that may have details of these areas, where the rocks are lesser known?

tomtom

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 20282
  • Karma: +641/-11
#35 Re: Climbing during CV-19
March 19, 2020, 06:36:19 pm
@jackpal

Re chalk. I’ve read a couple of blog posts summarising a study (I think) looking at air quality in climbing gyms.

Their main findings were that the issue was not the particulate effect of chalk dust on lungs - more that certain bacteria quite liked attaching themselves to chalk. Including ones associated with fecal matter.

Toilet > hand > hold > chalk etc... put simply they said that’s why many climbing walls smell a bit stale, Musty etc... because of these bacteria on the chalk.

It’s then an interpretation that virus inc CV19 could behave in the same way / and be quite happily attached to some chalk particles. Cold viruses tend to like cold dry conditions (not damp)....

There are two (I think) instances of where a climbing gym in Singapore (where they really contact trace properly) was the point of infection between people. Whether that happened because they were chatting, sneezed on each other or used the same holds who knows.

So my view is that if something is recently rainwashed and clean - or basking in UV (that kills it) then it’s probably fine. The caked start hold of demon wall roof (for example) would not fit any of those categories!! So would the starting holds of blind date etc.. and most of the Remergence problems that rarely see water...

That’s my view - my interpretation - and my reasons are above. And that’s why I think I’ll be sneaking off to esoteric lowballs that are unpopular. Plenty round here :)

TobyD

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 3827
  • Karma: +88/-3
  • Job offers gratefully accepted
#36 Re: Climbing during CV-19
March 19, 2020, 06:40:37 pm
I think it's really positive that there is a genuine debate about climbing etc at the moment, whatever people's opinions it's low risk compared to the f*ckwits packing out branches of Costa or Wetherspoons every day because they're not at work.
I fully respect people deciding to go out or not to, but at least the debate indicates that they're likely to take reasonable precautions if they do.

Falling Down

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 4880
  • Karma: +333/-4
    • bensblogredux
#37 Re: Climbing during CV-19
March 19, 2020, 06:51:06 pm
How's it going with you Falling Down?

Alright thanks Bonjoy - I put a bit of a ‘life in London’ update on the ‘How many people are going to die? - debate’ thread earlier.

finbarrr

Offline
  • ***
  • obsessive maniac
  • Posts: 342
  • Karma: +11/-2
#38 Re: Climbing during CV-19
March 19, 2020, 07:17:58 pm
the forrest of fontainebleau is now "closed".
no climbing, running, cycling, horse riding, etc.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1889115478063384/

Will Hunt

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Superworm is super-long
  • Posts: 7976
  • Karma: +631/-115
    • Unknown Stones
#39 Re: Climbing during CV-19
March 19, 2020, 07:39:27 pm
This. I don't want to belittle this, believe me, but there does seem to be an element of virtue signalling going on (similar to the lynching that occurred when two blokes walked up a wet Mod at Crookrise). People seem to have no idea by what is meant by esoteric. Crags where it's a miracle if somebody's logged climbs there in the last 2 months on UKC. They're not shit either.

Our website is www.unknownstones.com
There's a Peak one as well that I'm aware of. https://esotericboulderingcompanion.weebly.com/

Unknown Stones has grown and grown since it started. Admittedly, there is some stuff on there that is a bit log, but there are more gems. If anyone wants a recommendation then let me know your desired grade and I'll try and help.

Sasquatch

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 1984
  • Karma: +153/-1
  • www.akclimber.com
    • AkClimber
#40 Re: Climbing during CV-19
March 19, 2020, 07:42:28 pm
It's interesting to see how other governments are responding.  I'm in Alaska, which I would normally think of as being less likely to put any draconian control measures in place.   As of Monday our mayor closed all bars and restaurants to dine in service, all gyms closed, and any other social gathering places.  On Thursday the governor followed suit for the rest of the state.  Currently Alaska has 6 cases or about 1 case per 100K population. 

In relation to getting outside, I think u here there are so few climbers and so much rock, that the odds of seeing anyone, much less getting on the same climbs within a reasonable window are miniscule.  instead my concern is related to getting injured...

I think every place is different and people should be conservative about it. 
« Last Edit: September 21, 2022, 10:40:13 am by shark »

seankenny

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 1007
  • Karma: +114/-11
#41 Re: Climbing during CV-19
March 19, 2020, 07:47:10 pm
Get well soon Sean

Thanks! For me the hardest thing to deal with is the feelings of massive loss of control of my life, that’s way worse than having a bad cough. As jwi says above, right now if I visited my mum or my brother (who just had some chemo) then I could easily kill them. And given the very sudden onset of symptoms, we could all easily kill our loved ones.

Sure we all know this intellectually but it took a while to sink in for me. (I don’t think I’m fully there yet.)

I cancelled some (but not all) social events really early, not enough but I didn’t realise how quickly it would arrive... I did that bargaining thing with myself - “yes you can go to the wall at 9am in Wednesday and as long as you remove all your clothes when you get in etc etc”, (edit: get back home! Not a naked wall sesh to ensure a bit of quiet...  :no: ) and I’ve seen a lot of that (not necessarily here mind).

Personally I can see nothing wrong and lots right with a solo bouldering session at an esoteric cliff.

But... perhaps if we want people to give up what they love when what they love is watching the football in the pub, then we have to do the same. Because right now everyone is going to do that bargaining thing with themselves to avoid the horrible consequences of the situation we find ourselves in. Perhaps it will be easier if we start having lots of deaths..?

I really don’t know what we should do.

 
« Last Edit: March 19, 2020, 08:03:59 pm by seankenny »

Johnny Brown

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 11437
  • Karma: +690/-22
#42 Re: Climbing during CV-19
March 19, 2020, 08:59:44 pm
Hope you feel better soon Sean.

Burbage was as busy as a weekend today, encouraging tbh as none were in big groups and it means they weren't at work or shopping etc. But I haven't noticed much change in town around work. Local Supermarket was busier than normal.

Managed a solo bouldering session at Stanage without getting near anyone anyway. Looks like a great forecast for the next week so should be a good chance to get out. If we get limited to local exercise it's a great time of year for birdwatching...

Bradders

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 2785
  • Karma: +135/-3
#43 Re: Climbing during CV-19
March 19, 2020, 09:27:38 pm
But... perhaps if we want people to give up what they love when what they love is watching the football in the pub, then we have to do the same.

I really can't see the equivalence here. One activity very clearly does not involve any sort of social distance, the other is practically the definition of if practiced cautiously and undertaken solo. Equating the two just doesn't make any sense.

Are you saying climbers should be setting an example? If so, I think you're putting an awful lot of weight on what is still very much a niche activity.

tim palmer

Offline
  • ****
  • forum abuser
  • Posts: 735
  • Karma: +34/-0
#44 Re: Climbing during CV-19
March 19, 2020, 10:04:34 pm


Are you saying climbers should be setting an example? If so, I think you're putting an awful lot of weight on what is still very much a niche activity.

Some pro cyclists (proper athletes no less) are stopping training on the road on the continent despite having official permission.

Oldmanmatt

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • At this rate, I probably won’t last the week.
  • Posts: 7097
  • Karma: +368/-17
  • Largely broken. Obsolete spares and scrap only.
    • The Boulder Bunker climbing centre
#45 Re: Climbing during CV-19
March 19, 2020, 10:09:23 pm
Claiming exceptional status, regardless of the logical argument, is not going to “make friends and influence” amongst those whose lifestyles have been hamstrung.

If life followed any sort of logic, we would not have supermarket shelve devoid of bog roll.

seankenny

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 1007
  • Karma: +114/-11
#46 Re: Climbing during CV-19
March 19, 2020, 10:15:52 pm
But... perhaps if we want people to give up what they love when what they love is watching the football in the pub, then we have to do the same.

I really can't see the equivalence here. One activity very clearly does not involve any sort of social distance, the other is practically the definition of if practiced cautiously and undertaken solo. Equating the two just doesn't make any sense.

Are you saying climbers should be setting an example? If so, I think you're putting an awful lot of weight on what is still very much a niche activity.

Oh gosh, logically there is absolutely no equivalence. But we’re all bargaining with ourselves on what we can do. Looking for loopholes that let us find a way to carry on normally. (Mine is that I can go back to more normal because I’ll be immune... well maybe.) Everyone in the pub will have found one, for sure. The point is that this isn’t just about networks spreading disease, but networks spreading the best way to survive this thing, and to find new ways to live for the time being.

You tell you’re dad you’re stopping climbing for the time being. Your dad and his mates discuss this, appreciate what a massive deal it is, quit doing their social thing for a bit. Great - one more step towards making everyone a bit safer.

I don’t think anyone is under any moral obligation to do this, and I’m not going to judge either way. Maybe everyone in your network of family and friends is doing just great, or is totally intransigent. Maybe you think my multiplier effect is just “be the change you want to see in the world” hippy bullshit. I don’t think it’s black and white... but I do think we should consider it.

TobyD

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 3827
  • Karma: +88/-3
  • Job offers gratefully accepted
#47 Re: Climbing during CV-19
March 19, 2020, 10:48:10 pm


Are you saying climbers should be setting an example? If so, I think you're putting an awful lot of weight on what is still very much a niche activity.

Some pro cyclists (proper athletes no less) are stopping training on the road on the continent despite having official permission.

Is this because they wish to set an example, or because proper athletes are the most massively paranoid people about even common colds? Safer to stay in a private air con gym on a turbo trainer!

kingholmesy

Offline
  • ****
  • forum abuser
  • Posts: 564
  • Karma: +47/-0
#48 Re: Climbing during CV-19
March 19, 2020, 10:55:34 pm

that’s why I think I’ll be sneaking off to esoteric lowballs that are unpopular.


What’s new?  ;)

Will Hunt

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Superworm is super-long
  • Posts: 7976
  • Karma: +631/-115
    • Unknown Stones
#49 Re: Climbing during CV-19
March 19, 2020, 11:03:27 pm
It still stands that, at the moment, it is possible to adapt our hobby to comply fully with government guidance. This may change in the future. Climbing outside is not merely a way to while away the hours that can be replaced by doing some ancap on a fingerboard, it is also an escape which may be very much needed during the next months.
I can understand the bit about setting an example to others, but why not do this by telling them about the group trip that you cancelled, the changes you've made to what you'd normally do etc?

 

SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2024, SimplePortal