[teestub]

Astonishingly large number of people happy with the arbitrary interpretation of legislation by police officers.

Not seen anyone say they are happy with it

[Bradders]

What is the difference between travelling for 30 mins or 60mins apart from the right to virtue signalling

Nothing beyond a long boring list of slightly increased risks that are all very unlikely to actually materialise.

[tomtom]

(Deleted my post. Life’s too short etc..)

[Fiend]

Forgot to say, thanks to Will and Fuzzysheep for posting about this and providing useful information.

[Loos3-tools]

Bend over and be shafted, vaccine passports at the ready, one way ticket to the ‘Cliff’

[Wood FT]

Needs South Park’s Sadam voice

[Will Hunt]

The general feeling of the BMC Yorkshire meeting is that if a North Yorkshire Police officer should come to your house and demand to have sex with your daughter then you should just let him.

[Loos3-tools]

Not surprising is it, they're paralysed by double think.

[Loos3-tools]

Needs South Park’s Sadam voice

You're obsessed with Saddam you are

[Stu Littlefair]

Looks like Derbyshire police intend to crack down on people travelling to the peak over the next few weeks.

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/local-news/police-hand-out-covid-fines-5082254

Presumably trying to send a message as people anticipate the lifting of restrictions?

Of particular interest to some here will be the fines given to 4 from sheffield at longstone edge...

[Loos3-tools]

I can imagine the conversation. What are you doing here? Walking my dog in the countryside officer. You do realise that under the new government mandate that is illegal? As is getting to close to family and friends. I suggest you go home and sit in your house. Enjoy Netflix and UBI and forget your life ever existed. 

No human rights abuses there clearly 😬

[Oldmanmatt]

I can imagine the conversation. What are you doing here? Walking my dog in the countryside officer. You do realise that under the new government mandate that is illegal? As is getting to close to family and friends. I suggest you go home and sit in your house. Enjoy Netflix and UBI and forget your life ever existed. 

No human rights abuses there clearly 😬

Straw man.

And where did the dog walking come from? Can you point to the mandate barring dog walking?

Adding false colour and hyperbole, does not strengthen your position.

There is a fella that stands in the centre of Torquay, loudly and colourfully berating all who pass, about their sins and what awaits them in hell. He’s very good, from a certain perspective. Very detailed, clear even.
People tend to avoid him.

[spidermonkey09]

Looks like Derbyshire police intend to crack down on people travelling to the peak over the next few weeks.

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/local-news/police-hand-out-covid-fines-5082254

Presumably trying to send a message as people anticipate the lifting of restrictions?

Of particular interest to some here will be the fines given to 4 from sheffield at longstone edge...

Still don't understand how issuing these fines is legitimate policing given distance travelled isn't limited in law. This has even been acknowledged by other forces: https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/hull-east-yorkshire-news/police-chief-clarifies-you-might-5069444

[Fiend]

Sounds like the group of 4 at Longstone might have been, well, a group of 4. Thus an obvious target.

I'd be interested to hear more information about the pair climbing - where and why were they targetted?

[Oldmanmatt]

Looks like Derbyshire police intend to crack down on people travelling to the peak over the next few weeks.

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/local-news/police-hand-out-covid-fines-5082254

Presumably trying to send a message as people anticipate the lifting of restrictions?

Of particular interest to some here will be the fines given to 4 from sheffield at longstone edge...

Still don't understand how issuing these fines is legitimate policing given distance travelled isn't limited in law. This has even been acknowledged by other forces: https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/hull-east-yorkshire-news/police-chief-clarifies-you-might-5069444

They are probably not. I’m pretty sure you are not obligated to accept a fixed penalty notice and may opt to go to the Magistrate. In this case, it is well publicised that the distance travelled is not constrained by law, so cannot be the basis of an offence.
Group size is a different matter, etc.

[Will Hunt]

Following the recent Yorkshire area meeting where people were fairly unbothered that North Yorkshire Police were making up the rules, I wrote to the BMC and Dave Turnbull raised the issue with North Yorkshire Police (thanks, Dave). There's certain things in their response which are easily argued against, though I'm not suggesting we do so at this point. Here is the response for anyone who might be interested.

Thank you for your enquiry below regarding the term ‘local’.  The legislation states that people can legally be outside of their home if they have a ‘reasonable’ excuse, and taking exercise locally is defined as one of those reasons. There is no further definition of ‘local’ provided under the legislation, so the approach NYP are taking in this matter is, it is neither reasonable or essential to travel lengthy distances to take daily exercise, when it can be taken from the doorstep. We do not expect people to be travelling multiple miles in a car to take their exercise in North Yorkshire.

 

The legislation does state people can travel to access an open space, but this should not be outside their village, town, city or locality. I am fully aware climbers are limited to locality because of your chosen sport, but we are in exceptional times, where we are all being asked to adapt our behaviours and our daily routines. So if a person’s preferred method of exercise would result in a breach of the regulations, they should look to either change that exercise or find an alternative method for the duration of the national lockdown. Hopefully the ‘roadmap’ set out by the government will mean at the end of the month the ‘Stay at Home’ message will be lifted. Until then NYP have a role to play in following the 4 e’s approach of engage, explain, encourage, enforce and applying the legislation fairly and with common sense.

 

Ultimately, the nation is in lockdown and the reason we are being asked to limit our movement and why the police are enforcing this legislation – to save lives.

 

I hope this provides a bit of clarity,

[Bradders]

I hope this provides a bit of clarity,

*sigh*

Even the police can't distinguish between the legislation and the guidance.

[BrutusTheBear]

RE: fines.. I seem to remember reading somewhere that if you're presented with a fine and you don't pay it, it will then go to court, the trouble is there is a massive backlog for courts to deal with and therefore COVID fines of this kind weren't making it to court and expiring before they can be dealt with.. (I'm sure a legal bod on here will correct this if I'm wrong).

Seems that some police forces are getting a little over zealous. Not sure if I've shared this anecdote on here but a month or so ago I was driving home from a lamp session at midnightish and about 30mins away from home. I noticed lights coming up behind me, as it was icy and I dislike being followed at night I pulled in to a lay-by. The car behind stopped next to me... It was the police.  I wound my window down.  'Everything OK?' they asked. I explained that I was fine, pulled in when I saw them coming up behind and being careful coz it's icy.  'Very sensible Sir, have a good night' was the reply and off they went.  Bravo D&C police. 

[Steve R]

Still don't understand how issuing these fines is legitimate policing given distance travelled isn't limited in law. This has even been acknowledged by other forces: https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/hull-east-yorkshire-news/police-chief-clarifies-you-might-5069444

Great stuff that the East Riding is open to climbing visitors from afar if you make it through the road blocks.  I've been in touch with the landowner of the county's premiere venue.  She's happy for climbing in small to medium socially distanced groups to take place but no abseiling on the left wall as the moss and  one of the nettles is very rare.  Bloc bouldering in soft shoes fine.   Masks are to be worn at all times (also good for the 'optics') and liquid chalk only.  PLEASE park considerately.  Come on guys, let's not lose this:

https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/crags/st_austins_stone-12088#photos&gid=1&pid=1

[mark20]

Presumably the 4 from Sheffield at Longstone Edge were fined for breaking social distancing regs, either car sharing or meeting more than 1 other from household. As a spokesperson for Derbyshire Police has said "There are no limits given in law to how far someone may travel for exercise, however, you are only allowed to exercise with one other person who is not in your household or bubble." In this article previously posted here - https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/local-news/police-respond-claims-ice-climbers-5004845

The two seperately driving to Stanage from Melton (1.5h) and Ipswich (3.5h) I guess comes down to interpretation of the "local" thing. I suppose many would say a 6h+ round trip for a days exercise is a bit much, but that said, if the distance limit isn't defined in law it's still a bit shit and would seem to contravene the above statement from Derbyshire Police!

[Oldmanmatt]

The lack of specification in distance, allows (at some point) for a court to define it, surely.
Which makes sense, in as much as it depends on the specific circumstances and region in which the activities and journeys take place. Possibly, expecting the Government to predefine this on what amounts to emergency legislation, without extensive debate and study, is unreasonable on our part?
If you are presented with such a penalty and disagree that you have breached legislation, then you have the opportunity to argue it. Assuming you you feel it’s worth it.
In those circumstances, you need to convince a Magistrate that your actions were “ reasonable” and that Magistrate would be expected to determine what constitutes “reasonable” in the given circumstances.

For instance, driving 3.5 hours, in England, at normal speeds, allows you to travel something like 40% of the length of the country. I mean, I could get from Torquay to, say, Loughborough or Leister-ish. Essentially it’s a little hard to achieve that sort of distance without passing several, reasonable, crags or venues. My guess is even 1.5 is daft. Torquay to Bristol. Difficult to justify, surely?

[mark s]

Sounds like the group of 4 at Longstone might have been, well, a group of 4. Thus an obvious target.

I'd be interested to hear more information about the pair climbing - where and why were they targetted?

Travelling 4 adults in a car is asking for trouble at the moment.
I hope these people who are getting fined don't take up real crime after covid restrictions. As I can see them soon getting caught and arrested. If you are going to visit places at least keep a low profile and don't raise suspicion

It doesn't seem the distance is too much an issue unless you are taking the piss.
3 weeks ago some walkers lost a dog at ramshaw, they had travelled 20 miles. The police haven't said anything online regarding that. Even though the owners keep coming back looking for it.  I did point out on a fb roaches group that it was - 10 for 5 nights after it vanished. I said it's either been stolen or dead. Oh that went down well, got accused of being negative  etc etc. Realistic is what I called it.