[Bonjoy]

The fence was in good condition in Wednesday night.

Thanks. The state of the wall stresses me. Have bought some bits from farm suppliers to tidy it up a bit, next time I get chance.

[Oldmanmatt]

We’re thinking of reclassifying the activity as an “Eye test”. Colour and depth perception self assessment centre...

[SA Chris]

The fence was in good condition in Wednesday night.

Thanks. The state of the wall stresses me. Have bought some bits from farm suppliers to tidy it up a bit, next time I get chance.

Good on you. I've noticed one of the farmers nearby has re fenced his field, so I have screwed blocks in on some of the posts so people don't stand in the wire trying to climb over.

[mark20]

With Manchester and Sheffield both in tier 3 by Sat night, will be interesting to see how many follow the GUIDANCE to not leave their area, to climb in the Peak on Sunday....
Just trying to get an idea of how people on here are viewing the risks of climbing this time round? In terms of virus spread, public perception,  and overloading NHS

[Bonjoy]

I get the feeling climbing walls will be staying open (could be wrong). The idea that going to the wall is safer than going to the crag is beyond absurd. Put me down as ignoring such 'guidance'. Mainly because I don't want entirely give up climbing, but I also don't want to catch or spread the virus.

[galpinos]

With Manchester and Sheffield both in tier 3 by Sat night, will be interesting to see how many follow the GUIDANCE to not leave their area, to climb in the Peak on Sunday....
Just trying to get an idea of how people on here are viewing the risks of climbing this time round? In terms of virus spread, public perception,  and overloading NHS

I am going to struggle. I understand not going to a hotel in a Tier 1/2 area for a holiday, however driving from one Tier 3 to another to interact with no-one/few people and stand on a windswept moor seems a bit far fetched when I can sit inside in a restaurant for 2hrs with other disease riddled people.

[scragrock]

With Manchester and Sheffield both in tier 3 by Sat night, will be interesting to see how many follow the GUIDANCE to not leave their area, to climb in the Peak on Sunday....
Just trying to get an idea of how people on here are viewing the risks of climbing this time round? In terms of virus spread, public perception,  and overloading NHS

This is an interesting one and i think may affect all of us sooner or later{even up here in the Highlands}.
Having spoken to local folks{Non climbers} in the various spots south of Inverness it is definitely a question of perception and therefore tension leading to problems with access.

I know 1 or 2 climbers who went and climbed during the first Lockdown and it was clearly noted by the locals thus lumping us ALL into the "Bloody rule breaking climbers" camp.

I am Not arguing re the Politics or Science surrounding Covid but it is worth bearing in mind that this present crisis will not last forever BUT how we behave may affect future access for us and the subsequent generations.   

[mrjonathanr]

This is interesting; there is a difference between the law and gov guidance. https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/blog/government-law-and-guidance-coronavirus-crisis

However, as you rightly say, enduring perceptions do not need to be based on the finer points of law..

[Stu Littlefair]

Yes, there's no law that says you can't leave a tier 3 area. The government web pages are pretty clear that this is the advice though:

In addition, we are advising people not to travel into or out of an area if it has been categorised as a very high alert level area. This is part of wider measures to help manage the risk of transmission. You can continue to travel into or out of very high alert level areas if you need to for work, education, to access youth services or because of caring responsibilities.

What makes the "locals" issue potentially awkward is that Derbyshire is not in Tier 3. Like Bonjoy, I'd struggle with the idea of not going outside but going to the wall. I'll probably still go out, but I might well avoid busier areas and leave crags if there are more than 6 people in one area - mainly to avoid scenes that might piss off locals.

[tomtom]

I get the feeling climbing walls will be staying open (could be wrong). The idea that going to the wall is safer than going to the crag is beyond absurd. Put me down as ignoring such 'guidance'. Mainly because I don't want entirely give up climbing, but I also don't want to catch or spread the virus.

I think the walls situation is very interesting. Initial disclaimer - I've NOT been to a wall since March.

From those I know who've been - its generally to the larger new gen large lots of space walls at non peak times and they've said its fine. The exception are a couple of people I know who have been to the smaller 1st Gen walls at busy times and said they were a nightmare. Groups of 20 somethings all gathered together - pretty much as it used to be.

If I were a wall owner, I would (a) be very happy it looks like we can stay open (b) really worried how on earth to enforce the 'no climbing in a group outside of your household' rule. Because it would be pretty easy for someone to complain - or the council to come around and have a look and shut you down because of this. A hard one to keep an eye on. Its not the same as a bar/restaraunt where people are expected to sit at the same table so groups can (in theory) be more clearly separated.

I know the Depot's have upped their messaging (on SM at least) about wearing face masks etc..

[Stu Littlefair]

I think the walls situation is very interesting. Initial disclaimer - I've NOT been to a wall since March.

From those I know who've been - its generally to the larger new gen large lots of space walls at non peak times and they've said its fine.

[galpinos]

I know the Depot's have upped their messaging (on SM at least) about wearing face masks etc..

The Depot vibe has totally changed, for the better. Mask on at ALL times except when actually climbing, regulare reminders over the tannoy etc. They've also reduced their numbers.

[slab_happy]

With Manchester and Sheffield both in tier 3 by Sat night, will be interesting to see how many follow the GUIDANCE to not leave their area, to climb in the Peak on Sunday....

It's the whole of South Yorkshire going into Tier 3, not just Sheffield, so I think some chunks of the Peak are within that boundary.

It's surprisingly hard to find maps showing exactly where the county border runs, but it looks from Google like the whole Burbage valley is in South Yorkshire, and the boundary seems to run along Millstone and part of Stanage, so which side the rocks themselves are considered to fall on, I do not know.

I can't convince myself that it makes any significant difference to transmission risk whether the crag you're at is inside or fractionally outside the county boundary, but now I'm curious to know where the boundary actually is.

[Bonjoy]

Well exactly, for climbers in Sheffield this could lead to more climbers at walls and massive overcrowding at Burbage and Stanage i.e. net increase in opportunities for transmission.

[tomtom]

This is very different from the proper lockdown we had earlier in the year though. Now people are allowed to travel for work, schools will be open, all shops will be open...

There will be zero enforcement between different tier areas - its guidance/advisory (apart from going to Wales..)...

I will carry on resolutely avoiding all busy sites - but not feeling guilty about finding esoteric midweek obscurity in the Peak.

[teestub]

I guess all the mag lime choss is included in the South Yorks region so there’s that to look forward to!

[Ru]

This is interesting; there is a difference between the law and gov guidance.

As a rule of thumb when you're reading the government advice websites, if it says "should" then it's guidance but not law, and if it says "must" then it's the law. Not foolproof, but they have generally been sticking to this convention so far as I can see.

[Johnny Brown]

As an aside, any insight into the use of 'must' vs 'shall'? In the industry standards and guidance I've been involved in drafting we always use 'shall' (and 'should'), but I get the impression the UK legal world is following the US on preferring 'must' instead?

[mrjonathanr]

This is interesting; there is a difference between the law and gov guidance.

As a rule of thumb when you're reading the government advice websites, if it says "should" then it's guidance but not law, and if it says "must" then it's the law. Not foolproof, but they have generally been sticking to this convention so far as I can see.

That’s how I have always understood the Highway Code.

[Bradders]

This is interesting; there is a difference between the law and gov guidance.

As a rule of thumb when you're reading the government advice websites, if it says "should" then it's guidance but not law, and if it says "must" then it's the law. Not foolproof, but they have generally been sticking to this convention so far as I can see.

That’s how I have always understood the Highway Code.

Same applies in UK financial services regulation, although in practice here a safety first approach often means "should" ends up meaning "must" anyway.

[danm]

With Manchester and Sheffield both in tier 3 by Sat night, will be interesting to see how many follow the GUIDANCE to not leave their area, to climb in the Peak on Sunday....
Just trying to get an idea of how people on here are viewing the risks of climbing this time round? In terms of virus spread, public perception,  and overloading NHS

I am going to struggle. I understand not going to a hotel in a Tier 1/2 area for a holiday, however driving from one Tier 3 to another to interact with no-one/few people and stand on a windswept moor seems a bit far fetched when I can sit inside in a restaurant for 2hrs with other disease riddled people.

You've still got Hobson Moor Quarry though.....

When it comes to climbing outside, people will make their own choice. Post Cummingsgate, I doubt many would judge those bending the rules if they socially distance and don't take the piss too much. I'll probably have to toe the line, being a petty bureaucrat these days.

Speaking of which, this week has mainly consisted of running around like a blue arsed fly trying to keep up with the ever shifting sands of Government policy in order to help come up with a battle plan to try and help keep walls open. Things are looking good in England, for now, but it's much darker scenes in Wales. Already battered by the local travel restrictions, and before that a 5 week longer lockdown than here, they are now facing down the barrel of a gun with the strict lockdown.

In terms of safety, the data seems to support that walls and gyms are not major hubs of transmission. Not compared to cramming students into halls together anyway. What a shitshow.

[Bonjoy]

Is there any climbing wall specific evidence? I think extrapolating from gyms in general doesn't tell you a lot about walls as they're fundamentally different.

[JamieG]

You've still got Hobson Moor Quarry though.....

And the whole Chew Valley (Wimberry, Dovestones, Running Hill pits) and Longdendale (Black Tor, Tintwhistle, Shining Clough). Possibly up Blackstone Edge area too. They all fall under Greater Manchester as far as I know. They will all be quieter for climbing than Hobson Moor I would think. Although the car parking at the popular walking spots is super busy at the weekends at the moment. So best avoided for those reasons. I was up Wimberry yesterday afternoon and didn't see another climber despite it being the best conditions all week. Rarely see people out this way.

[tomtom]

And all the quarries around Bolton are part of GM. And if Lancs is T3 too is there an issue going from one T3 to another..

[Ru]

As an aside, any insight into the use of 'must' vs 'shall'?

"Shall" also conveys an obligation, like "must." But "shall" is a bit old fashioned and has fallen out of common usage as an obligation so "must" is now preferred as everyone knows what it means.