[Fiend]

A phrase I stumbled across recently, in full: "I find the weight of meaning applied to climbing and bouldering fucking astonishing".

Made me think a bit.

Is it all just meaningless lumps of rock? Are we giving this activity a weight and importance out of proportion to it's essential mundanity (the sit start, the seige, the hanging sessions, the named and graded testpieces)?

Or given that we're all just stumbling along between birth and death, passing the time until we rot into worms and dust, and have some choice of what to make of our fleeting existence, completely valid to put climbing and bouldering on a pedestal of gravity and serious fun?

[tomtom]

Scrape Goats for your password. Must have been while you were up those reds at the depot today 😃

[Doylo]

Looking forward to it all being over so I can get BumFucked by Satan for eternity.

[GazM]

Where did the phrase come from Fiend?

I totally agree with the sentiment, and that was what grated with me about much of Mr Cheetham's input as he seemed to be doing just that.

But that's the point, right? Finding meaning in ultimately meaningless activities is what being alive is all about, so long as you know it's all meaningless.

But I guess it goes by degrees. Enjoying, obsessing about and trying to improve at an activity makes perfect sense to me, regardless of what the activity is. But treating it like there's some greater meaning, like it makes you a better, purer, more insightful person striving to reach Nirvana is clearly bullshit.

[Fiend]

Scrape Goats for your password. Must have been while you were up those reds at the depot today 😃

He was too busy drawing choads on my bonnet 

[shark]

As far as meaningless experiences go its pretty damn good

[mrjonathanr]

put climbing and bouldering on a pedestal of gravity

I see what you did there  
'Conquistadors of the useless' said Lionel Terray. Sounds about right. It has no extrinsic value. But that's okay. Plenty meaningful if it means something to you.

[tomtom]

Climbing’s about as meaningless as most things in life.

Everyone places a false worth on what they do to make our pointless existence in the vastness of the universe seem somehow worthwhile.

Especially on Bens Roof 😃

[Sasquatch]

Since the answer is 42, obviously that's the ultimate human v-grade.  What else are we striving for?

[Wood FT]

I don't know where it was from but I've always liked -

'Your average trad climber likes to think of themselves as somewhere between an astronaut and a cowboy, with a fist-full of cams and hands full of nuts'

*possibly in the comment section of a Guardian article on Ondra.

[cheque]

It’s like anything isn’t it- if you enjoy it it means a lot to you, if not, it means next to nothing. Both completely valid and understandable perspectives.

Who’s the quote from? My guess is someone who used to enjoy climbing but doesn’t any more.

[teestub]

Have you got a link for the quote in context?

[moose]

To paraphrase a quote I've seen attributed to both Pope John Paul II and Arrigo Sacchi, "Out of all the unimportant things, football climbing is the most important".

[Fiend]

Sorry I can't remember where I saw it, might have been a FB post or something, just found it copied into my text document of random scribblings.

Further thought: if climbing and bouldering do have meaning, what IS that meaning??

[SA Chris]

They don't.

At the end of the day it's all shits and giggles, just like most other pasttimes.

At least there is less weight applied to it than kicking or hitting a ball, and getting paid millions to do so.

[Steve R]

Further thought: if climbing and bouldering do have meaning, what IS that meaning??

My take - Arrange matter in certain configurations and (incredibly) it becomes conscious.  Conscious experience seems to be the only thing in the universe you might (should, imo) attribute meaning to.  With that in hand, anything an individual does that impacts their own (and/or another conscious agent's) conscious experience, inherently carries meaning.
For climbing specifically then, I think the depth of experience available and therefore 'level' of meaning potentially derived from the activity depends on the individual(s) concerned and their particular neural circuitry. For the 'right' individual (ie. someone whose neural architecture happens to resonate with climbing type activity), I'd wager climbing experiences can occasionally be fairly well over towards the 'significantly meaningful' end of things (as far as human experinces go.)

[crzylgs]

Or given that we're all just stumbling along between birth and death, passing the time until we rot into worms and dust

Not that I'm at all well versed or dedicated to philosophical thoughts... I've always liked Becker's (not the tennis player) take on things. Resonates more with me than most of the mumbo-jumbo.

Plenty of people do apply what I'd consider too much emotion and zen to climbing, in itself is fine but sometimes its slathered on a little too thick for my tastes but am sure that goes down well with the Instagram crowd right? Which nicely relates back to the original line of discussion because I'd blame social media for distorting the perspective on this subject, along with most others. 99% of posts be it Facebook, Instagram, even on here... They highlight the 1% of times people are having amazing successes. People post stories of the glorious days out, the isolated scenic boulders or mountains the times they came close to achieving a 'zen' or 'flow' moment. They are often actively selling (for their benefit) this story. You don't see the times they were having a shitty day, feeling weak, falling off warm ups, looking a bit miserable. When you do it's a token 'Instagram vs Real Life' post. I think if our perspectives weren't being manipulated the sense of 'too much meaning' being applied to climbing would lessen. Realistically 90% of the time it'd be people chilling with mates, down the gym or at the crag, shooting the breeze and sipping coffee.

[tc]

Climbing’s about as meaningless as most things in life.

Everyone places a false worth on what they do to make our pointless existence in the vastness of the universe seem somehow worthwhile.

Especially on Bens Roof 😃

Fuck. For fifty years, I've been telling myself that bouldering is the One True Path To Spiritual Enlightenment. Now it appears my life has been a sham. I'm going to buy a cardigan and set of golf clubs.

[Falling Down]

As someone who isn’t climbing at the moment I’d say it’s laden with meaning. 

The sheer physicality of it really anchors ones sense of self. Just being very conscious of the body and movement.

Being in nature and getting those moments of real connection to the earth (man...) and becoming part of the landscape are incredibly life affirming.

Then somewhat more tenuous but still important for me is the sense of history with some routes and places holding a genuine feeling of wonder and offering initiation.

There’s also all the feeling that comes with doubt, uncertainty, mastery of a craft and surprising ones self.

Just sharing that little anecdote about FantanB on Fatneck’s FB post last night has given me a warm feeling that’s still with me now.

Anyway, that’s all maybe a bit wanky but it’s true for me.

[r-man]

Bollocks to anyone who says there is no meaning in climbing.

Bollocks to anyone who tells you there is meaning in climbing.

Bollocks to those who think there is more meaning in a king line than a scruffy eliminate in a graffitied quarry.

Bollocks to those who don't appreciate king lines.

Bollocks to meaning.

There is meaning in every sort of bollocks.

[petejh]

The only meaning that has any meaning is meaning to the self. Some people need to share their actions and see themselves and their meaning reflected back by other people. Some people are quite happy with their sense of self, without needing to share much with others or needing their meaning reflecting back by others. Climbing is just one of many vehicles for inventing meaning in meaninglessness. It has no intrinsic meaning, like a lettuce has no intrinsic personality.
#Danstolemylogin 

[mrjonathanr]

I don’t agree with some  of what you post Pete, but the post after your car was robbed en route to Albarracín pretty much nailed it. Something about

the sheer redemptive power of movement over rock.

Perfect.

[Fiend]

Nice post FD. I agree climbing can have a lot to it, and is a broad church.

[Fiend]

In case anyone still thinks I've been hacked, especially given this particular post - I deny everything, and reiterate that the thread title/quote is definitely from an external source, not my own deathcore-addled fever-dreams.

Sorry if it dredged up any PTSD from any similar previous posts on this forum...

[BAndy]

"Climbing is a rich enough experience that it can be a valid focus for your life. In other words you don't have to say "oh err.. I'm a nuclear physicist and I go climbing as a hobby." You don't think in those terms at all, you can say I'm a rock climber and that, if anybody understands it, has as much validity as anything else you can spend a day doing."

Todd Skinner.

Courtesy of the old Rockfax Yorkshire Gritstone Bouldering guide.