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Knees, knees, knees. (Read 9949 times)

mrjonathanr

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Knees, knees, knees.
February 26, 2020, 08:02:51 pm
Anyone got any experience with knee issues?

Never suffered with my knees before (I’m 51) but not enjoying this.

 I resumed yoga and climbing at the start of Feb after a 2 month layoff due to a hand injury. Initially my right inner knee felt a bit sore which I put down to having stiffened up a bit. Then my left patella was really painful going downstairs on Monday. By the end of that day I couldn’t bend my knees or get up/downstairs without serious pain.

Bit better today, but still sore, hobbling and struggling on the stairs. Any bright ideas? Thanks!


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#1 Re: Knees, knees, knees.
February 26, 2020, 08:10:05 pm
Knees are very complex with every knee injury I’ve ever had giving me pain in a location different to where the issue was. Apparently the wiring of nerves in the knee is a bit screwed up. The only way to really know what’s wrong is to see a specialist. There are lots of manipulation tests to diagnose certain things that you could try (may need a friend).

mrjonathanr

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#2 Re: Knees, knees, knees.
February 26, 2020, 08:14:00 pm
Thanks Coops. The fact it’s suddenly both knees, the jumping off problems and my age makes dread that it might be arthritis related. Did you suffer specific injuries?

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#3 Re: Knees, knees, knees.
February 26, 2020, 10:58:13 pm
Yeah I had a bucket handle tear of my meniscus 10 years ago and have since bruised the head of my femur due to missing the meniscus that was removed as a result of the tear. Ligaments all OK fortunately

mrjonathanr

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#4 Re: Knees, knees, knees.
February 26, 2020, 11:11:51 pm
Ouch! Glad it is working okay for you now.

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#5 Re: Knees, knees, knees.
February 27, 2020, 08:52:01 am
Knees are very complex with every knee injury I’ve ever had giving me pain in a location different to where the issue was.

This is true for most injuries, see my response to tomtom regarding his shoulder.

J, sounds like a sudden increase in activity after the prolonged inactivity provoked a bit of pain. Not wanting to sound blunt but this is pretty common verging on normal for people of our age. It's why I try to always be doing something even when I have tweaks (see my power club entries ad nauseum). It's the rate of increase of activity that's more an issue than the activity itself.

Almost every 50-something's knees will have signs of arthritis on X-Ray and those signs will have probably been there for years, pain or no pain. This doesn't mean something of major concern and exercise will almost certainly help.  First step (cough) is to allow things to settle for a couple of days then gradually introduce some knee strengthening work e.g. mini-squats or step-ups onto a small step.  If this isn't doing the job then seek more help.

 

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#6 Re: Knees, knees, knees.
February 27, 2020, 09:00:47 am
Purely anecdotal, but I've had much less knee issues since i started running. No idea if it's caused by improved muscle strength, strengthened soft tissue, or just continuous movement, or pure luck.

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#7 Re: Knees, knees, knees.
February 27, 2020, 02:14:46 pm
I've had a few knee injuries as of late.
Broken meniscus and broken cartilages (operated) and broken cruciatus ligament (not operated) in my left knee. Broken meniscus and broken cartilages (operated) and broken again meniscus (waiting for the operation) in my right knee.
Inner knee is often meniscus related, at least in my experience. Best thing is to have an MR scan; tests are fine but not 100% affordable: all ligament tests were negative for my left knee, and when the surgeon went in they found out that my cruciatus was completely disappeared. Like, not broken: shredded to thin filaments.
Now my left knee is kind of ok, let's hope my right one will heal properly also.

I have to say that also having both external ankle ligaments broken does not help knee health. A few weeks ago a simple farmer's walk with a heavier load fucked my knee properly for a good two weeks.
Despite this, yesterday I flashed 2xBW deadlift again after a lot of time without going heavy. Miracles.
Good luck!

mrjonathanr

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#8 Re: Knees, knees, knees.
February 27, 2020, 11:04:10 pm
Thanks all.

Hi Duncan and Chris, seems like good advice. Think I failed to take due account of what the aging process means for a return after injury.

Nibs, I have a Lee Majors bionic man rebuild type image in my head there, that sounds hideous  :o  Impressed (inspired?) your enthusiasm remains undiminished. Good luck with the right knee!

SA Chris

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#9 Re: Knees, knees, knees.
February 28, 2020, 09:10:39 am
From what Nibs is saying, looks like running is kinder to the knees than hard lifting!

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#10 Re: Knees, knees, knees.
February 28, 2020, 12:29:17 pm
At all. Heavy lifting has always been fine. Problems started with heavy bouldering.

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#11 Re: Knees, knees, knees.
February 29, 2020, 09:32:40 am
My dad (mid 60s) has started to suffer with arthritis in his knees. The doc has told him to go cycling 4 times a week and apparently it is helping a lot.

At 38 mine are already feeling a bit creaky and I had an op for a meniscus tear in my 20s, so I’m sure I’ve got similar issues to look forward to as part of the joy of ageing.

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#12 Re: Knees, knees, knees.
February 29, 2020, 10:09:27 am
My 60 plus year old knees have just started giving me a bit of grief. I think this is a result of no longer having a home board, so I have been jumping off a lot more at the wall and at the local quarry. However I think the main reason is I haven’t been getting out on my bike due to the whether and my turbo trainer is in storage.
You need to build those quads up.

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#13 Re: Knees, knees, knees.
February 29, 2020, 10:13:09 am
My 60 plus year old knees have just started giving me a bit of grief. I think this is a result of no longer having a home board, so I have been jumping off a lot more at the wall and at the local quarry. However I think the main reason is I haven’t been getting out on my bike due to the whether and my turbo trainer is in storage.
You need to build those quads up.

Been to the new wall in ‘ull Webbo? Or are you out of the area now? (I’ve forgotten)

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#14 Re: Knees, knees, knees.
February 29, 2020, 10:31:58 am
I haven’t been to the new wall in Dull as I have been in North Yorkshire for the last 2 and half years. However if things go as planned I will be moving back to near Beverley next week.
So I will probably using it till I get board back up.

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#15 Re: Knees, knees, knees.
February 29, 2020, 07:13:17 pm
I haven’t been to the new wall in Dull as I have been in North Yorkshire for the last 2 and half years. However if things go as planned I will be moving back to near Beverley next week.
So I will probably using it till I get board back up.

It’s really good. Owners are great and listen - nice bunch of punters too.

SA Chris

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#16 Re: Knees, knees, knees.
March 02, 2020, 08:42:22 am
Apart from one or two bad eggs I've heard..

Andy W

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#17 Re: Knees, knees, knees.
January 21, 2021, 05:22:13 pm
So I was wondering if anyone has meniscus issues. Both my knees are problematic/fucked, currently I'm seeing a surgeon next week about my left knee. I had an MRI and the diagnosis is 'horizontal longitudinal internal meniscal fissure'. I guess my question is has anyone had surgery or experience of this injury.

I'm also wondering if this sort of injury is going to be affecting more and more climbers, I'm 56 and a couple of decades of high rockovers, heel hooks and those moves where you rock over or pull into a hold on a twisted knee (do they have a name?) are having their toll. Seeing as most youngsters are doing this from a young age will they get affected earlier? When I started climbing a heel hook was very much something you hung from, not the active pulling which is now the norm.


SA Chris

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#18 Re: Knees, knees, knees.
January 21, 2021, 05:43:14 pm
Assume no obvious event which my have caused onset?

Andy W

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#19 Re: Knees, knees, knees.
January 21, 2021, 05:51:40 pm
Assume no obvious event which my have caused onset?

I'm sure its cumulative...first hurt it moving rocks, squatting down, about six years ago. After that it used to lock a little. Right knee is over zealous toe out heel in rockovers. Eventually last Sept the left knee exploded with pain on a relatively easy twisting move, giving me the worst nights pain I have ever had, emergency in the morning etc etc.

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#20 Re: Knees, knees, knees.
January 21, 2021, 05:51:47 pm
So I was wondering if anyone has meniscus issues. Both my knees are problematic/fucked, currently I'm seeing a surgeon next week about my left knee. I had an MRI and the diagnosis is 'horizontal longitudinal internal meniscal fissure'. I guess my question is has anyone had surgery or experience of this injury.

I'm also wondering if this sort of injury is going to be affecting more and more climbers, I'm 56 and a couple of decades of high rockovers, heel hooks and those moves where you rock over or pull into a hold on a twisted knee (do they have a name?) are having their toll. Seeing as most youngsters are doing this from a young age will they get affected earlier? When I started climbing a heel hook was very much something you hung from, not the active pulling which is now the norm.

Right...

Around three years ago, I was kneeling down to work with a client doing floor exercises, when my knee “popped”.
Inside, right knee.
Very painful, ached like a bitch even when resting. It would lock or send shooting pain up the inside of my thigh etc etc etc.
Initial diagnosis was a torn MCL.
However, Toby D of this parish had a look, whilst we were climbing one day and felt it seemed more like a meniscus issue in it’s presentation.

Anyway, I put on a brace and ran the Fan Dance, with a 45lbs Bergan around six weeks after the first pop. This undoubtedly aggravated the living shit out of it.
But...
Using some pretty simple rehab exercises, from my physio and found on YouTube, it was resolved within 3 months. I introduced proper barbell squats and bench jumps into my weekly routine (building up as recovery progressed) and haven’t had any issues since.
I’m 50, for reference.
Oh and Farmers walks, with 2x22kg dumbells over benches, soft crash mats etc.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BuwIqmUBja9/?igshid=15lba5eisui7a

Coops_13

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#21 Re: Knees, knees, knees.
January 21, 2021, 06:34:49 pm
I think part of the issue is climbers generally avoid leg strengthening exercises. My lack of lateral meniscus in one knee has flared up recently (but fortunately I don't need my meniscal transplant just yet) but I've been doing a lot of physio around strengthening the legs and stretching. Apparently men generally have much weaker glutes than women and that can cause issues - I'm not back to weighted squats yet but things like single leg glute bridges are pretty tough!

Andy W

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#22 Re: Knees, knees, knees.
January 21, 2021, 06:50:05 pm
So I was wondering if anyone has meniscus issues. Both my knees are problematic/fucked, currently I'm seeing a surgeon next week about my left knee. I had an MRI and the diagnosis is 'horizontal longitudinal internal meniscal fissure'. I guess my question is has anyone had surgery or experience of this injury.

I'm also wondering if this sort of injury is going to be affecting more and more climbers, I'm 56 and a couple of decades of high rockovers, heel hooks and those moves where you rock over or pull into a hold on a twisted knee (do they have a name?) are having their toll. Seeing as most youngsters are doing this from a young age will they get affected earlier? When I started climbing a heel hook was very much something you hung from, not the active pulling which is now the norm.

Right...

Around three years ago, I was kneeling down to work with a client doing floor exercises, when my knee “popped”.
Inside, right knee.
Very painful, ached like a bitch even when resting. It would lock or send shooting pain up the inside of my thigh etc etc etc.
Initial diagnosis was a torn MCL.
However, Toby D of this parish had a look, whilst we were climbing one day and felt it seemed more like a meniscus issue in it’s presentation.

Anyway, I put on a brace and ran the Fan Dance, with a 45lbs Bergan around six weeks after the first pop. This undoubtedly aggravated the living shit out of it.
But...
Using some pretty simple rehab exercises, from my physio and found on YouTube, it was resolved within 3 months. I introduced proper barbell squats and bench jumps into my weekly routine (building up as recovery progressed) and haven’t had any issues since.
I’m 50, for reference.
Oh and Farmers walks, with 2x22kg dumbells over benches, soft crash mats etc.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BuwIqmUBja9/?igshid=15lba5eisui7a

I think I would normally favour a similar approach, obvs not getting involved with farmers and Bergans, whatever they are  ;) After three months getting my left knee more or less working, including lots of rehab, I went snowboarding which resulted in a very embarrassing enquiry from a skier who watched me drop of the top of a ridge and disappear after about 15 mins he popped his head over the ridge to see with my knee pressed into the ice for relief in agony...'do you need a rescue he asked?' I got back to the car after sledging down through deep powder on my arse. Basically its not recovered and as its new injuries on old I'm looking at surgery. Dave Mcleod seems to think surgery is a good option.

Andy W

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#23 Re: Knees, knees, knees.
January 21, 2021, 06:51:02 pm
I think part of the issue is climbers generally avoid leg strengthening exercises. My lack of lateral meniscus in one knee has flared up recently (but fortunately I don't need my meniscal transplant just yet) but I've been doing a lot of physio around strengthening the legs and stretching. Apparently men generally have much weaker glutes than women and that can cause issues - I'm not back to weighted squats yet but things like single leg glute bridges are pretty tough!

You're right, it's the fear of getting heavy legs.

mrjonathanr

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#24 Re: Knees, knees, knees.
January 21, 2021, 07:18:25 pm
Sorry to hear that Andy, I have found running helps, but only uphill after being advised short  strides are better for knees. I park up in a dip near us and run up one hill, walk down, run up the other, walk back and repeat.  One set is about 0.5 mile- a few of these a week seems to help.

 

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