[abarro81]

I don't think you've read Pete's, mine or Stu's posts very well.

[petejh]

You can call it what you want, but it strikes me as a poor attempt at spin to pre-empt criticism given the context... although I think it being "work" only solves the problem of one of the two border restrictions anyway. The "work" thing for pro climbers is bollocks anyway - climbers are "influencers" or comp athletes; the latter don't need to climb rock and the former means anyone getting free stuff ever can claim that anything resulting in an insta post is "work" to evade restrictions.

This. The 'pro' climber thing has always been almost complete bollocks for 99.9% of climbers, even top climbers - climbing hard is a lifestyle choice, not a job. The miniscule number of individuals making a living from it just proves the point. A mountain guide is much more of a 'job'.
Bosi is using the 'pro athlete' line. Fair enough, he is a very good indoor comp climber. But indoor comp athletes do not need to swan off to hang out in Spain for 3 months of dirtbagging and redpointing routes for specific, or even general, training relevant to their event. In the same way that premiership footballers don't need to go on a nice holiday to Majorca and do a bit of daily jogging and playing 5-a-side on the beach whilst there.

Pete sounds like he's like me - I don't really mind people having broken the rules, but lame attempts at justifications (or outright lies) annoy me (although I probably can't create a good argument to justify my own stance on that!).

This. I don't really mind people bending rules to go climbing. But spinning and using bullshit is something I find annoying and offensive - because ultimately bullshit is always designed to deceive and and manipulate. Not a good look or way to be. 

[Stu Littlefair]

In reply to Will:

Because travelling from Germany and using the test-to-release scheme is entirely in line with current restrictions? 

[abarro81]

But spinning and using bullshit is something I find annoying and offensive - because ultimately bullshit is always designed to deceive and and manipulate. Not a good look or way to be.

This is a nice way to articulate why this kind of stuff winds me up.

[Will Hunt]

I don't think you've read Pete's, mine or Stu's posts very well.

I'm not saying that you are one of the moaning pissbags, I'm just trying to explain that the arse-covering (someone said it was "Will, having complied with covid restrictions during his stay in Spain, is now back in the UK" - I wouldn't know since I haven't read the article/watched the TV) is only there to stop the pissbags in their tracks before the froth forms in their mouths. Have you not watched anything on telly in the last year?
"Filmed in compliance with government guidance"
"Filmed before the COVID pandemic"
"All the actors quarantined in a hotel during production"
etc etc etc

Anybody with something more than a Big Mac patty for a brain knows already that those statements are the case, but if they don't put it in then they'll get reams of complaints from lobotomised busybodies who think they've struck upon a goldmine of non-compliance.

[Will Hunt]

In reply to Will:

Because travelling from Germany and using the test-to-release scheme is entirely in line with current restrictions? 

Bosi has also complied with the restictions? Or is it that somebody reporting on his trip has pointed out that he complied with the restrictions that's upset people?

[Stu Littlefair]

Which is why Alex said that you’ve missed the point of our posts. And we are very much one of the moaning piss-bags.

Reason being - that statement is carefully worded to avoid saying that Will was allowed to travel to Spain in the first place. Because he wasn’t.

Bosi may have complied with the restrictions whilst in Spain, but given that  at the time he went out, climbers from Tarragona weren’t allowed to go to Siurana/Margalef, it’s hard to see how.

[T_B]

It’s perhaps easier for those whose livelihoods are fairly unaffected by the pandemic to give Bosi a free pass.

I very much doubt Adidas need him to be climbing in Spain and if he’s on the payroll then why not furlough him if he’s unable to do his ‘job’?

And yes, the spin sticks in the craw.

[petejh]

Why the Bosi beef?

It's simply taking the piss, that's why.

If you're going to take the piss it isn't a good idea to then publicly advertise your piss-taking, and attempt to justify your piss-taking with crafted spin PR bullshit.

And it's not beef with an individual per se, I'm sure Will Bosi is a lovely guy. It's just calling out bullshit where it raises its ugly head. If you think the 'pro climber' justification is a good one for going off on climbing holidays recently, then fuck it I'm off on my travels around Europe next week, woohoo! On the pretext that I'm doing it for the 'gram and building my base of followers. That's all most pro climbers are. (Charko are you there? )
As pointed out, you don't need - or even benefit from - a redpointing holiday to train for the indoor comp season. The PR bollocks suggesting that you do is just offensive to the notion of honesty.

[Will Hunt]

Reason being - that statement is carefully worded to avoid saying that Will was allowed to travel to Spain in the first place. Because he wasn’t.

This is the bit I wasn't aware of.

I'm passed passing judgement on others for their Covid indiscretions, so I'm out of the conversation at this point. I've generally been very well behaved with one or two moments of weakness. I'm sure we all have. Not my neighbours though, who have their parents round to clean the house once a week, and who go over to their's for Sunday lunch, and who've had their mates round for drinks in the garden recently. I just can't bring myself to anger about it any more.

But please, piss away, moaning pissbags. I admire your staying power. 

[abarro81]

Like I said

[author=abarro81 link=topic=30451.msg634123#msg634123 date=1617022414]
I don't really mind people having broken the rules, but lame attempts at justifications (or outright lies) annoy me
[/quote]

[IanP]

8a.nu report updated

'Alex Megos comments "I tried two of this FA's there and they are hard! Both of them 9b for sure. The one he thought was easier I couldn't do one move. On "King Capella" I did all the moves, but linking then will be very hard. I'd be super psyched to go and try to repeat his routes at some point! 😁 Very strong lad 💪🏼."'

Seems like this is a proper impressive tick list - have thought for a bit that it looks like maybe Bosi is better suited to outdoor climbing that comps?

On the whole should he/shouldn't he, should we move this to a separate topic if people still want to discuss it?  This seems to be a truly world class performance by a British sport climber worth discussion on its own merits. 

[Whatthedickens]

So pro climbing isn't a proper job and enough coverage can be generated on social media without having to climb hard routes. Will's sponsorability has probably increased massively after that trip, therefore it was essential for him.Worth remembering that a lot of his competitors have access to that stuff already. He could have tapped the government for the self employment grants but he'll probably be on contracts so less likely he'd qualify. A lot of you guys are probably still working or on Furlough so don't begrudge someone trying to make a living in a extremely hard way.

[Stu Littlefair]

Thread split is a good idea.

I’m quite happy to consider being a pro climber as a proper job that allows someone to travel for work. My point is that even those of us who need to travel for work haven’t been able to get to Spain, so the issue of whether this was valid work travel is irrelevant.

[Whatthedickens]

Sounds like Will kind of sneaked in by the back door. He's not done anything illegal though, plus we've got a Brit climbing 9B+.

[abarro81]

it looks like maybe Bosi is better suited to outdoor climbing that comps?

Yeah, I think he's better on a "real" hold that the slopey volume style so is really freakin' good outdoors

So pro climbing isn't a proper job

Like I said, nowadays I think it's mostly either a subset of "influencer" (or "competitive athlete"). Hence why some 9a+ climbers get the odd free shoe and some 8c+ climbers are full-time pro.

and enough coverage can be generated on social media without having to climb hard routes.

Have you seen SBC's insta following? Don't take it from me, take it from Jorg. Bear in mind that restrictions are temporary too.

Will's sponsorability has probably increased massively after that trip, therefore it was essential for him.

This is an erroneous conclusion. My job would have been much easier, and my work output better, going to China a few times last year but that didn't make the trips essential. 

don't begrudge someone trying to make a living in a extremely hard way.

You are spectacularly missing the points here.

[mr chaz]

Sounds like Will kind of sneeked in by the back door. He's not done anything illegal though, plus we've got a Brit climbing 9B+.

You should be writing Will's press releases 

[abarro81]

Sounds like Will kind of sneeked in by the back door. He's not done anything illegal though

If by sneaked in the back door you mean walked past the doorman whilst the closed sign was up but he wasn't looking, then wrote some PR bullshit about travelling by Si O'Connor's horse and cart and obeying all the restrictions once in the club then yes. Otherwise perhaps not. It's ironic that were it not for those leaping to the defence of Will's PR team no-one would have felt the need to so explicitly point out the infraction. Hoist by your own (team's) petard...

[Whatthedickens]

Christ its hard to get past you Barrows, you can dismantle every statement. You win. Perhaps if you got paid to climb, rather than just free boots you'd understand, or do you get paid?

[petejh]

What exactly would he understand if he was 'paid to climb', that he currently doesn't?

[Whatthedickens]

Ok Pete, I take it you've ceased all operations?

[gme]

I thought travel to Spain for EU citizens was allowed before Christmas although from the UK it depended on what tier your place of residence was in.  I know a few people how went to visit family over there and also others went all over the world legally, notable the countries favorite Captain Tom and his trip to Barbados. And you can come back into the country now as long as you isolate, again i know of a few people doing so.

I personally dont give a shite and thing Will was fine going.

[Whatthedickens]

Exactly gme.

[abarro81]

Ha, do I hell. I basically get paid to dismantle reports for useful information 
I understand why Will went to Spain against the rules (I was a hair's breadth away from making a similar call). I understand why he wants to publicise his hard stuff (from both an ego and a career perspective). But... I think he needs to listen to his PR team less. I think he played it wrong both initially (hence me taking the piss on his insta) and now has played it wrong again. Like Pete said

spinning and using bullshit is something I find annoying and offensive

Since people seem intent on dragging this out, there was a a French entry restriction with no work exemption, but apparently the border/customs agents weren't checking paperwork other than covid tests between the full border shutdown and the transition end-date (not sure on Scot/Eng and inter-municipality Catalunyan work exemptions or not, for getting around those rules). I know/know-of >4 separate people/groups who got across during this period, and if my finger had been less injured I might have made the call to be one of them because I'm a morally dubious kinda guy. But I wouldn't then have written some disingenuous bullshit about following rules.

[Whatthedickens]

You're just argumentative Barrows but it adds something and even you could have made a similar decision. It seems a shame that an 8b+ onsighter can't get paid