I assume you and they all vote Tory? At least that would be internally consistent.
For some reason I don't view pension tax relief (on the way in, at least) in quite the same way
internally consistent.
Quote from: spidermonkey09 on January 25, 2023, 11:21:41 amQuote from: TobyD on January 25, 2023, 09:44:44 amBut, I'm sure Johnson lied to all his MPs who went out to defend him, and it was only when Lord Macdonald contradicted him that they were presented with irrefutable evidence that he was lying. Eh?! The idea they didn't all know he was lying is absolutely risible. You and I knew it; the idea the cabinet didn't is absurd. Anyway, no need to keep going over old ground as we aren't going to agree, but theres not a lot here convincing me that the preference for Sunak isn't largely based on aesthetics rather than substance. Which is a bit sad but nothing we didn't know already.Unfortunately, like it or not, aesthetics matter....
Quote from: TobyD on January 25, 2023, 09:44:44 amBut, I'm sure Johnson lied to all his MPs who went out to defend him, and it was only when Lord Macdonald contradicted him that they were presented with irrefutable evidence that he was lying. Eh?! The idea they didn't all know he was lying is absolutely risible. You and I knew it; the idea the cabinet didn't is absurd. Anyway, no need to keep going over old ground as we aren't going to agree, but theres not a lot here convincing me that the preference for Sunak isn't largely based on aesthetics rather than substance. Which is a bit sad but nothing we didn't know already.
But, I'm sure Johnson lied to all his MPs who went out to defend him, and it was only when Lord Macdonald contradicted him that they were presented with irrefutable evidence that he was lying.
Liam's builder mates aren't the chancellor of the exchequer though. Its one thing doing a bit of work for cash, quite another using a questionable nondom status to safeguard family wealth when your day job is to be responsible for everyone else paying their taxes. Its rank hypocrisy.I see where you're coming from Barrows but there are obviously degrees to it; cash goes back into the economy immediately and so the 'damage' is fairly minimal.
I wrote that to point out the flaw/irony in my thinking - I suspect most "left leaning" people are the same to some extent, despite it requiring either burying your head in the sand or some mental gymnastics. Maybe it's similar to how we're all concerned about climate change but still fly away on holiday. I've been struck in a few conversations recently about Labour/Green voters putting high level of effort into minimizing inheritance tax, which seems to my mind hard to justify. I guess as spidermonkey points out most tax minimization has some kind of incentivization behind it, though with the schemes I've stumbled across it just seems more like exploiting loopholes than a coherent incentive. if you were dodging tax by getting paid in cash then yes, I would think you should vote Conservative. Otherwise it's just "I want high public spending but don't want to pay for it". I also think that's neither decent nor honest.And yeah, obvs it's fair to hold the chancellor to a higher standard. P.S. surely pension contributions are tax free by default, since it either comes our pre tax or the provider claims it back as standard?
I've been struck in a few conversations recently about Labour/Green voters putting high level of effort into minimizing inheritance tax, which seems to my mind hard to justify.
I'm endlessly amazed by the number of people who vote for pro-redistribution parties (e.g. Labour) but try quite aggressively to minimize tax and don't recognize the irony. I find this especially true for inheritance tax - surely the most equitable of them all.
This is a luxury belief based on living in a modern, advanced state in which most people live and work within the formal economy. States which struggle to collect tax also struggle to provide services for their citizens, and at the extreme suffer very high levels of debt and default. Look at the current mess Sri Lanka is in to see what happens when lots of people don’t pay tax but still demand a degree of state capacity. The damage is far from minimal.As for Liam’s dodgy mates, I suspect they use public services far more often than Sunak has ever used them. And yet they don’t want to pay for them. At very best that’s freeloading.
It's highly likely that my views on politics are inconsistent, often contradictory, and unintellectual, but I expect I'm not in the minority; most people I know only have a superficial understanding of politics at best.
As stated before, I'm not really a man of politics. I've only voted once in my life but it wasn't conservative - I was born in Doncaster, my dad was a miner, and I was a steelworker (before going to university to study physics). I do wish for a 'fairer society' and will likely vote for Labour at the next election.
Simultaneously, I also grumble about how much tax I'm paying and jumped at the chance to reduce it by entering a salary sacrifice pension scheme. I put as much money as I can into a stocks and shares ISA to legally avoid paying tax on the capital gains. Recently, I purchased an item from abroad and I did not get charged VAT. I don't think any of those examples of tax avoidance make me a bad person but you might disagree. It's highly likely that my views on politics are inconsistent, often contradictory, and unintellectual, but I expect I'm not in the minority; most people I know only have a superficial understanding of politics at best.
The inheritance tax point is interesting and I wonder what age the people you have had discussions with.
I get where you are coming from with the bit in bold, it just doesn't apply to myself or any of the people I spoke about (as your first response assumed).
. It's highly likely that my views on politics are inconsistent, often contradictory, and unintellectual, but I expect I'm not in the minority
Sounds a bit like the perspective of someone with no skin in the game?
Picking out the single point that essentially no decent and honest person would utilize legal tricks to reduce their tax contributions, well if that's true then I don't know many decent and honest people! All my mates in trades are fiddling their books, putting allsorts down to expenses. The builder currently working on my house asked if I could pay him partly cash. These are all decent people. I get that Sunak is in a different position to us plebs and should be held to a different standard, but you said 'no decent person...'
A good proportion of people whose estate might owe IHT are in that position because of rising house prices. If your family had to sell their home to pay HMRC if you died, would you still hold that view just the same?
If your family had to sell their home to pay HMRC if you died, would you still hold that view just the same?
There'll be a lot more people faced with that scenario than just the very rich.
Surely the number of single people (but not through death) whose family (but not child or grandchild or step/adopted/foster child/grandchild) lives with them,
all agree is bullshit that benefits no-one but the super rich!