For shareholders watching Centrica's fortunes tank for year after year since 2013 it must have been like watching money being vaporised in the void of a failing business. And now in the one year they turn a hefty profit due to force majeure completely outside their own doing and, Nigel-forbid, want to send a small part of some of that profit back to long-suffering shareholders
"The wealthiest 10 per cent of households owned 43 per cent of all the wealth in Britain between April 2018 to March 2020, data from the Office for National Statistics showed on Friday. In contrast, the bottom half of the population held only 9 per cent."However, over the past 14 years wealth inequality measured by the Gini coefficient has remained by and large stable, according to the ONS.
Shareholders have three options available to them: exit, voice, and loyalty.
I thought the counter view of getting ahead of events with a more full throated defence of why the population of workers (and voters) should not have to take *another* pay cut due to circumstances out of their control would be worth considering. If Labour agree with the Tories that people should take a pay cut this year then equally they should explain why? We know the Tories don't give a shit but people can join the dots and see that an alternative might be possible *if someone makes the case*.
Sean - lots to comment on but no time so two things. There seems to be a lot riding on the next GE being done when "due" in two years. With fixed term parliaments act gone now that is a gamble. Other thing is in amongst the block text on Gini coefficients you quoted this:Quote from: seankenny on July 28, 2022, 04:11:52 pm"The wealthiest 10 per cent of households owned 43 per cent of all the wealth in Britain between April 2018 to March 2020, data from the Office for National Statistics showed on Friday. In contrast, the bottom half of the population held only 9 per cent."However, over the past 14 years wealth inequality measured by the Gini coefficient has remained by and large stable, according to the ONS.The Gini coefficient staying the same is not a cause for celebration in the context of the first sentence! Rather it is a scandal that things haven't got better. Surely in light of that there is space for something a little more distributive? I suspect you agree but thought it worth highlighting.
Now the market has given, but forces outside the market want to take it away again because they feel it isn’t fair on them - or at least they want to be *VERY ANGRY* about it. This is your point except subverted - it isn’t market forces acting when people are expressing disgust at Centrica making profits from high energy prices - it’s an exterior anti-market force.
Nigel, from one long-poster to another… I posted to illustrate some of the reality behind the ‘poor optics’ of an energy company making profit while people are feeling the pinch and being angry. Which I’m sure you probably knew. Andy, I agree - the market giveth and the market taketh away. That’s largely the point behind this issue - the market has taken away from anyone unfortunate enough to be involved with Centrica’s business for the last decade. Now the market has given, but forces outside the market want to take it away again because they feel it isn’t fair on them - or at least they want to be *VERY ANGRY* about it. This is your point except subverted - it isn’t market forces acting when people are expressing disgust at Centrica making profits from high energy prices - it’s an exterior anti-market force. Funny how those anti-market forces were absent in 2020 when Centrica made a pre-tax loss of £1.1 billion. (Although some will be used to offset profits in subsequent years.)
Quote from: Nigel on July 29, 2022, 08:34:01 amI thought the counter view of getting ahead of events with a more full throated defence of why the population of workers (and voters) should not have to take *another* pay cut due to circumstances out of their control would be worth considering. If Labour agree with the Tories that people should take a pay cut this year then equally they should explain why? We know the Tories don't give a shit but people can join the dots and see that an alternative might be possible *if someone makes the case*. How does that alternative actually work?
Pete - I reckon you should use your new found man of leisure status to do an economics degree. I suspect you’d enjoy it a lot.
My my,
Looking like Truss is definitely going to win easily now: https://news.sky.com/story/tom-tugendhat-backs-liz-truss-in-tory-leadership-race-in-huge-blow-to-rishi-sunak-12661661Lead by the economics of Patrick Minford, noted Brexit supporter. He acknowledged before the vote that leaving the single market would destroy the UK car industry, but thought that was a price worth paying. Hmmm.
How does that alternative actually work? Energy inputs are more expensive. There are problems with supply chains. Brexit has had a negative effect. The U.K. has a productivity problem. All these things make us poorer in real terms. All are hard to solve. I’m afraid the only alternative I see to below inflation rate pay rises for most people is higher unemployment which is much more selective. That’s the short term choice: a bit of pain for everyone, or a lot of pain for a smaller number of people.
But magically making people not poorer immediately strikes me as unlikely.
The problem is that quite a few pensioners are pretty poor and on fixed incomes, whereas there are public sector staff on good wages with skills that give them outside options.
Quote from: seankenny on August 02, 2022, 04:15:10 pmThe problem is that quite a few pensioners are pretty poor and on fixed incomes, whereas there are public sector staff on good wages with skills that give them outside options.Surely the reverse of this is also true? Ie, there are also quite a few pensioners on very good incomes as well as the state pension, with significant assets, and a lot of public sector staff on bog standard wages, renting, where that job is all they;ve ever done.I don't know the figures in terms of which group is greater or even where to find them though.