Perhaps I worded my question badly, what I meant more was "what specifically about Brexit (or not fighting for Remain) was so fundamentally important to the left(er) cause, that siding with the ERG etc wingnuts was a better idea than, say giving the EU "10 out of 10" on national TV?
The thing is that whatever your personal opinions are on RMT and the strike, it would be electoral suicide for Labour to get full bore behind the strikes. Labour's strongest voting base now is younger, metropolitan liberal minded professionals in the major cities, who are most affected by the trains not running.
Quote from: TobyD on June 24, 2022, 10:19:23 pmThe thing is that whatever your personal opinions are on RMT and the strike, it would be electoral suicide for Labour to get full bore behind the strikes. Labour's strongest voting base now is younger, metropolitan liberal minded professionals in the major cities, who are most affected by the trains not running. Do you have evidence that this group is not majorly supportive of the strikes, despite being affected by them? This would seem counter to what I’ve read but have not seen any opinion polls etc.
Quote from: teestub on June 24, 2022, 11:48:20 pmQuote from: TobyD on June 24, 2022, 10:19:23 pmThe thing is that whatever your personal opinions are on RMT and the strike, it would be electoral suicide for Labour to get full bore behind the strikes. Labour's strongest voting base now is younger, metropolitan liberal minded professionals in the major cities, who are most affected by the trains not running. Do you have evidence that this group is not majorly supportive of the strikes, despite being affected by them? This would seem counter to what I’ve read but have not seen any opinion polls etc.I work with a lot of young liberal minded professionals and none of them batted an eyelid this week. They just fired up Teams/Zoom and worked from home. It’s the people who work in retail, hospitality and hands-on service jobs who were most inconvenienced.On the Lexit thing, I thought what happened to Greece was a big factor in Left Wing opposition to the EU.
Quote from: teestub on June 24, 2022, 11:48:20 pmQuote from: TobyD on June 24, 2022, 10:19:23 pmThe thing is that whatever your personal opinions are on RMT and the strike, it would be electoral suicide for Labour to get full bore behind the strikes. Labour's strongest voting base now is younger, metropolitan liberal minded professionals in the major cities, who are most affected by the trains not running. Do you have evidence that this group is not majorly supportive of the strikes, despite being affected by them? This would seem counter to what I’ve read but have not seen any opinion polls etc.It’s not the median Labour voter that’s the issue but the marginal Labour voter. They after all are the people Labour needs to get into power.
"We would nationalise the rail systems and therefore avoid any need for strikes, we'd improve services and cut costs by taking out the need to fill the pockets of shareholders" etc that would all sound pretty good.
Keir Starmer doesn't have to be exciting, or wildly popular. Against Johnson, he just needs to be less unpopular than him.
No I don't, but my point re their position stands, in order to win they are in a difficult place, but have probably done essentially the right thing, I'm not saying that I personally agree with it, but politically it's the right choice.
I don't think you can compare a union leader and a politician as though they are equivalent and can say and do the same things, because they are completely different beasts. A unions job is to negotiate and if necessary strike in order to get what is fair for their members. A politicians job is to get into government and ideally manage well enough so that strikes etc are not necessary. At least, that's what a Labour gov should do, a Tory one will provoke strikes as part of their culture war agenda.So yeah, I think Labour are doing the right thing by holding back their support to avoid playing into Tory hands and looking once again like a party of protest rather than of government. Instead of focusing on strikes, focusing on the economic clusterfuck caused by the Tories which is making them an issue. Lammy was pretty good I thought about apologising for getting his facts wrong and calling it half arsed missed the point - wake up and smell the coffee, we are sliding into fascism so stop wailing about Labour not being Left enough and focus on getting these Tories out by hook or by crook. At this stage I'd take May or Major so Lammy, Rayner and Starmer would be an upgrade on that.