[Will Hunt]

Perhaps the next time she tries to deport some asylum seekers,  they'll claim that they didn't mean to somehow arrive in the UK,  and they're awfully sorry that she's annoyed about it, but they're going to just carry on doing exactly as they please. Presumably,  that'll be ok with her?

I believe the preferred defence would be that they were only in the UK in a limited and specific way.

[TobyD]

There seem to be a fair few people who like a bet. I wonder whether anyone would bet on us getting any sort of deal with the EU? Granted, its going to be a bit of a shitshow now either way. It seems utterly incomprehensible that we're chucking out an amazing trade and services set up for nothing except catching a load of fish that most Brits won't want to eat and we wont be able to sell with 10 to 20% tariffs on selling them to the EU. 

[andy popp]

Remarkably little discussion of Brexit, even as we seem to be hurtling unavoidably toward no deal.

How's everyone feeling: numb, depressed, relieved, optimistic, sick of it, resigned, celebratory? Maybe there's simply nothing left to say at this point.

[ali k]

Remarkably little discussion of Brexit, even as we seem to be hurtling unavoidably toward no deal.

How's everyone feeling: numb, depressed, relieved, optimistic, sick of it, resigned, celebratory? Maybe there's simply nothing left to say at this point.

Numb, depressed, and ashamed sum it up for me. Johnson is not going to climb down from his position of expecting access without any conditions when the Express and Telegraph are cheering him on. I suspect a lot of people are just quietly resigned to what’s about to happen.

[Oldmanmatt]

Well, have you’ve seen the headline that BJ has threatened to deploy “The Gun Boats” (most versions carry a picture of the Batch 1 River class OPVs)?

That’s funny.

Because the RN don’t have the personnel to man all their ships, which is why I am/will be working for them again, but what with the RN/MOD being the behemoth they are and lockdown #2 happening, our deployment on January the 1st (after doing the work up training in December) has been postponed to April (the Navy works in Quarters, if you’re not ready to go at the start of a quarter, you drop off the program until next quarter. Rapid response fighting force for the 21st century. As long as you book a year in advance).

For reference, the vessel in the photo’s is usually the Severn, currently the Dartmouth college Navigational training ship, full of spotty cadets and foreign navy exchange students and about as warlike as Christopher Biggins.

[tomtom]

Fatigue for me Andy. All seems inevitable now however cross I get about it all.

[TobyD]

Well, have you’ve seen the headline that BJ has threatened to deploy “The Gun Boats” (most versions carry a picture of the Batch 1 River class OPVs)?

That’s funny.

Because the RN don’t have the personnel to man all their ships, which is why I am/will be working for them again, but what with the RN/MOD being the behemoth they are and lockdown #2 happening, our deployment on January the 1st (after doing the work up training in December) has been postponed to April (the Navy works in Quarters, if you’re not ready to go at the start of a quarter, you drop off the program until next quarter. Rapid response fighting force for the 21st century. As long as you book a year in advance).

For reference, the vessel in the photo’s is usually the Severn, currently the Dartmouth college Navigational training ship, full of spotty cadets and foreign navy exchange students and about as warlike as Christopher Biggins.

I'd wondered what you'd think about this. I'd tend to agree with Tom Tuggenhart (sp?) the Conservative MP who has commented that the Russians must be loving all the bickering between their political adversaries; Putin can happily get on with subjugating his own people, and annexing neighbouring states unmolested, and China can merrily go about continuing genocide and putting peaceful protesters in prison without criticism. All while our government get haughty about fish, which the fishermen won't be able to sell after a no deal brexit. 

[Nigel]

...the Russians must be loving all the bickering between their political adversaries; Putin can happily get on with subjugating his own people, and annexing neighbouring states unmolested...

...and partnering with the Oxford - Astrazeneca team to improve the efficiacy of "our" vaccine https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/virus-vaccine-astrazeneca-russia-collaboration/2020/12/11/6481a3f8-3baa-11eb-aad9-8959227280c4_story.html  (plus assisting the GSK and Sanolfi vaccine attempts).

[spidermonkey09]

Well, have you’ve seen the headline that BJ has threatened to deploy “The Gun Boats” (most versions carry a picture of the Batch 1 River class OPVs)?

That’s funny.

Because the RN don’t have the personnel to man all their ships, which is why I am/will be working for them again, but what with the RN/MOD being the behemoth they are and lockdown #2 happening, our deployment on January the 1st (after doing the work up training in December) has been postponed to April (the Navy works in Quarters, if you’re not ready to go at the start of a quarter, you drop off the program until next quarter. Rapid response fighting force for the 21st century. As long as you book a year in advance).

For reference, the vessel in the photo’s is usually the Severn, currently the Dartmouth college Navigational training ship, full of spotty cadets and foreign navy exchange students and about as warlike as Christopher Biggins.

I'd wondered what you'd think about this. I'd tend to agree with Tom Tuggenhart (sp?) the Conservative MP who has commented that the Russians must be loving all the bickering between their political adversaries; Putin can happily get on with subjugating his own people, and annexing neighbouring states unmolested, and China can merrily go about continuing genocide and putting peaceful protesters in prison without criticism. All while our government get haughty about fish, which the fishermen won't be able to sell after a no deal brexit.

This is just another form of nationalistic sabre rattling for mine from Tughendhat. Exchanging the bogey man of the EU for the Russian/Chinese/insert other no western country here.

[Neil F]

There was a familiar voice at the start of Any Questions last night, articulating the way so many of us feel.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000q3n4

Personally I'm glad I'm no longer in business.  I really fear for our economy if this pans out the way its looking (despite all the hollow promises / lies during the referendum / election), particularly off the back of the pandemic.

Truly worrying times, at least for this (not so) 'plucky Brit'.

[ali k]

All while our government get haughty about fish, which the fishermen won't be able to sell after a no deal brexit.

The irony is that the British fishing fleet isn’t large enough to fish ‘our’ waters anyway. Utter madness.

[teestub]

I think Covid made me almost completely turn off from the news cycle and to concentrate on things I can affect and not get caught worrying about what a terrible job the Gov is doing.

As there’s literally nothing I can do to influence the Brexit process at this point, I’m not remotely interested in following the slow motion train disaster in any detail and will wait to see the fall out.

I feel fairly similar about politics in general at the moment. Unless there a change to the fixed term parliament act or something else disastrous occurs, it seems unlikely that we are going to get to vote on anything for another 4 years.

[sdm]

The irony is that the British fishing fleet isn’t large enough to fish ‘our’ waters anyway. Utter madness.

Would this be a positive thing from a sustainability perspective?

[sdm]

Unless there a change to the fixed term parliament act or something else disastrous occurs, it seems unlikely that we are going to get to vote on anything for another 4 years.

The government published a draft bill last week to repeal the Fixed-term Parliaments Act.

[Oldmanmatt]

Guys, despite the gutter media and our illustrious Cabinet’s assertion otherwise; the dastardly Frogs and their piratical fishing squadrons; are not the threat.

It’s the massive Chinese fleets, that can vacuum a few thousand square miles of ocean clean in a few days.

Currently, these semi-state owned “navies” are reluctant to cause incident with Europe. The fear is that little old Britain, on her own, is not in a position to prevent or even monitor, such an incursion.

Four 80mtr OPV’s? Do me a favour.

We are lucky that proximity to France and Ireland, gives a degree of protection to a fair chunk of coastline and operating in the North Sea, is unlikely to go undetected, but the North West coast? Opph!

So, despite my earlier comments, it’s entirely possible that those headlines and threats, were never really aimed at Europe.

[tomtom]

Unless there a change to the fixed term parliament act or something else disastrous occurs, it seems unlikely that we are going to get to vote on anything for another 4 years.

The government published a draft bill last week to repeal the Fixed-term Parliaments Act.

Yes - this has snuck under the radar. Cameron bought it in iirc.

[teestub]

The government published a draft bill last week to repeal the Fixed-term Parliaments Act.

What would you need to trigger an election if that passed, a normal majority? Opens up things a bit but will require a significant number of pissed of tories!

[Neil F]

There was a familiar voice at the start of Any Questions last night, articulating the way so many of us feel.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000q3n4

Personally I'm glad I'm no longer in business.  I really fear for our economy if this pans out the way its looking (despite all the hollow promises / lies during the referendum / election), particularly off the back of the pandemic.

Truly worrying times, at least for this (not so) 'plucky Brit'.

Worth listening to the first 5 minutes, if you didn’t hear it last night....

[sdm]

The government published a draft bill last week to repeal the Fixed-term Parliaments Act.

What would you need to trigger an election if that passed, a normal majority? Opens up things a bit but will require a significant number of pissed of tories!

Yes, just a simple majority I think.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-to-fulfil-manifesto-commitment-and-scrap-fixed-term-parliaments-act

Tories won't vote for an early election because they're pissed off, they'll vote for an early election if they think it's their best chance of extending the period under a Tory government.

[DAVETHOMAS90]

BJ's trying to work through them, one at a time.

I think we've had "I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears and sweat" a couple of times, for Brexit and Covid-19.

This time it's "We shall never surrender"  :

"I have, myself, full confidence that if all do their duty, if nothing is neglected, and if the best arrangements are made, as they are being made, we shall prove ourselves once again able to defend our Island home, to ride out the storm of war, and to outlive the menace of Europe, if necessary for years, if necessary alone.

..

We shall fight on the seas and oceans,
we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our Island, whatever the cost may be,
we shall fight on the beaches,
we shall fight on the landing grounds,
we shall fight in the fields and in the streets,
we shall fight in the hills;
we shall never surrender."

[TobyD]

This is just another form of nationalistic sabre rattling for mine from Tughendhat. Exchanging the bogey man of the EU for the Russian/Chinese/insert other no western country here.

I hope you don't really think that a conservative backbench mp is more of a risk to the UK than Russia trying to disrupt every UK and US election for the last few years, poisoning people with Novichok, and annexing Crimea?  I don't doubt that millions of Russian people are excellent human beings,  expert scientists etc etc, but Putin is not.

[TobyD]

Guys, despite the gutter media and our illustrious Cabinet’s assertion otherwise; the dastardly Frogs and their piratical fishing squadrons; are not the threat.

It’s the massive Chinese fleets, that can vacuum a few thousand square miles of ocean clean in a few days.

Currently, these semi-state owned “navies” are reluctant to cause incident with Europe. The fear is that little old Britain, on her own, is not in a position to prevent or even monitor, such an incursion.

Four 80mtr OPV’s? Do me a favour.

We are lucky that proximity to France and Ireland, gives a degree of protection to a fair chunk of coastline and operating in the North Sea, is unlikely to go undetected, but the North West coast? Opph!

So, despite my earlier comments, it’s entirely possible that those headlines and threats, were never really aimed at Europe.

I think that the threats were expressly aimed at the ERG contingent to keep them onside as BJ is clearly worried about his declining popularity within his party. Chances of them thinking strategically about China at this point would be very minimal 

[tomtom]

Fishing is worth 0.5 or maybe even 0.05% of GDP.. (I’ve forgotten which - but it doesn’t compare to the other sectors being thrown under the brexit bus at the moment). anything about fishing is political rather than logical.

I see the ‘mood music’ (Raab..) is that talks may go on until new year. Peston summarised things nicely (to me) a day or so ago when he tweeted that he couldn’t decide whether UK position was genuine heading to no deal or a paper tiger to make Boris look good when he comes back/off the phone with THE breakthrough etc.. etc..

I was going to say at least we’ll find out today. But....

[duncan]

There was a familiar voice at the start of Any Questions last night, articulating the way so many of us feel.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000q3n4

Personally I'm glad I'm no longer in business.  I really fear for our economy if this pans out the way its looking (despite all the hollow promises / lies during the referendum / election), particularly off the back of the pandemic.

Truly worrying times, at least for this (not so) 'plucky Brit'.

Worth listening to the first 5 minutes, if you didn’t hear it last night....

Well done Mr Moon.

[jwi]

There was a familiar voice at the start of Any Questions last night, articulating the way so many of us feel.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000q3n4

Personally I'm glad I'm no longer in business.  I really fear for our economy if this pans out the way its looking (despite all the hollow promises / lies during the referendum / election), particularly off the back of the pandemic.

Truly worrying times, at least for this (not so) 'plucky Brit'.

Worth listening to the first 5 minutes, if you didn’t hear it last night....

Well done Mr Moon.

Indeed! Chapeau