[TobyD]

The breach of an international treaty is rather more worrying. I really think that they haven't thought this particular dead cat strategy through, and it's not going to end well.

I think you're right but from what I've been hearing its not a dead cat, it is THE point of brexit. Apparently dom wants to set up a nationalised tech business to basically stuff tax payer cash in his mates pockets and isn't too keen on the EU limiting state aid. I just hope he catches the full blame for any fallout from this, and he doesnt just get to walk away from the country after setting it on fire...

I know this, but without a meaningful free trade deal, what good is an improved tech sector without an export market? O, there's that marvellous deal with Japan, you say? Call me a sceptic but I can't see us selling tech to Japan, or indeed cars, livestock...

[TobyD]

I wonder if some Tory Mp’s are thinking this might be a viable ‘hill to die on’ in order to get rid of Cummings?

They clearly all hate him, hes not a conservative in any way, I wonder if there will be a rebellion next week,  or will concerns about Starmer being competent and reasonably popular keep them in line?

[Oldmanmatt]

The breach of an international treaty is rather more worrying. I really think that they haven't thought this particular dead cat strategy through, and it's not going to end well.

I think you're right but from what I've been hearing its not a dead cat, it is THE point of brexit. Apparently dom wants to set up a nationalised tech business to basically stuff tax payer cash in his mates pockets and isn't too keen on the EU limiting state aid. I just hope he catches the full blame for any fallout from this, and he doesnt just get to walk away from the country after setting it on fire...

I know this, but without a meaningful free trade deal, what good is an improved tech sector without an export market? O, there's that marvellous deal with Japan, you say? Call me a sceptic but I can't see us selling tech to Japan, or indeed cars, livestock...

I don’t think the tech sector will still be here...
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-arm-holdings-m-a-nvidia-idINKBN2630UE?utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A+Trending+Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR0SNzrSmop27ftIPCVP0tlIHWoczj-_FsN932khuBetUMJDWR58xpiQXRw

[TobyD]

Re the government's proposed infringement of international law, this cursory piece of investigative journalism suggests that the Attorney General may have massaged significant parts of her CV,  I wonder how credible a legal authority she really is?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/sep/12/when-even-the-attorney-general-flouts-the-law-what-hope-does-britain-have-suella-braverman?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

[Johnny Brown]

Christ, they're as bad as the BMC.

[ali k]

I don’t believe anyone at No.10 has heard the word “no” in many months. Anyone capable of uttering it was fired or resigned

Although Cummings would like to bypass parliament completely, he may well be disappointed that laws still have to be passed...Michael Howard, a Conservative Euro sceptic sounded more angry than anyone else about the proposed strategy.

I haven’t heard a single person outside of Cummings’ immediate circle of acting yes men (even the most ardent Brexiteers) speak up in support of this bill. I think No.10 have miscalculated this one.

[TobyD]

I don’t believe anyone at No.10 has heard the word “no” in many months. Anyone capable of uttering it was fired or resigned

Although Cummings would like to bypass parliament completely, he may well be disappointed that laws still have to be passed...Michael Howard, a Conservative Euro sceptic sounded more angry than anyone else about the proposed strategy.

I haven’t heard a single person outside of Cummings’ immediate circle of acting yes men (even the most ardent Brexiteers) speak up in support of this bill. I think No.10 have miscalculated this one.

Unless threats of removing the whip get it through...

[Oldmanmatt]

I don’t believe anyone at No.10 has heard the word “no” in many months. Anyone capable of uttering it was fired or resigned

Although Cummings would like to bypass parliament completely, he may well be disappointed that laws still have to be passed...Michael Howard, a Conservative Euro sceptic sounded more angry than anyone else about the proposed strategy.

I haven’t heard a single person outside of Cummings’ immediate circle of acting yes men (even the most ardent Brexiteers) speak up in support of this bill. I think No.10 have miscalculated this one.

Unless threats of removing the whip get it through...

Funnily enough, that’s how Bojo got the Brexit bill through in the first place.

[TobyD]

Funnily enough, that’s how Bojo got the Brexit bill through in the first place.

It's as though he repeatedly uses bullying in place of actually having a reasonable argument. Far be it from me, however to pigeon hole BJ as an ignorant entitled public school bully, lacking any scrap of moral integrity, or a single sign that he actually gives a shit about the country that he's supposed to govern.

[Nigel]

Re the government's proposed infringement of international law, this cursory piece of investigative journalism suggests that the Attorney General may have massaged significant parts of her CV,  I wonder how credible a legal authority she really is?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/sep/12/when-even-the-attorney-general-flouts-the-law-what-hope-does-britain-have-suella-braverman?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

Toby for someone interested in politics do you not read Private Eye? They were all over the AG's dodgy CV months ago (after her defence of Cummings I think?).

[Nigel]

I've been away for a good while so apologies for going over old ground here as I'm back reading the thread.

I have been reading some of the excerpts of the book about the Corbyn administration which are serialised in the Times......

It does convince me that Corbyn would have been at least at bad at managing the current situation as Boris Johnson has been....

I don't read the Times, and do not know the book of which you speak Toby. So I'd be genuinely interested to have an expanded version of what makes you so convinced of this?

[Johnny Brown]

Even if Corbyn's management skills were genuinely worse than BritainTrump's, I can't see the response being worse simply because his politics are actually aligned with helping people. I daresay that's not how the Times would have painted it though.

[TobyD]

Even if Corbyn's management skills were genuinely worse than BritainTrump's, I can't see the response being worse simply because his politics are actually aligned with helping people. I daresay that's not how the Times would have painted it though.

It's nothing to do with the Times, Corbyn's issues, among others were that he was more concerned with helping people in East Timor, or his own internal party politics than actually doing anything useful.  John McDonald tried to provide some balance but, it seems was often overruled by people like Karie Murphy or Seamus Milne.
Boris Johnson is not, in my opinion,  in himself any better, but there are a few more competent people around him although it has to be said that this doesn't include the vast majority of the cabinet.  I'm not arguing that Johnson's administration has a semblance of competence,  however. More that the two main parties both presented an absolutely appalling choice of people to run a country in late 2019.
This is probably why I voted Green, because I at least believed in much of what they stand for,  despite the fact that they had absolutely no chance of gaining anything like a foothold in my constituency. 

[teestub]

It’s obviously v hard to draw any conclusions, but if everything else was equally shambolic, just the absence of Cummings from Downing Street, meaning that we didn’t waste a few weeks thinking herd immunity might be a thing would have put us in a better position.

To me it seems that Corbyn and staff may have been more likely to listen to senior NHS figures rather than sidelining them.

[spidermonkey09]

What Stubs and JB said. I don't see any reason to think that a Corbyn government wouldn't have responded along the lines of the socialist Sanchez government in Spain, and gone into lockdown in line with the rest of Europe. A lot of the problems we have faced stem from that initial delay in taking any action whatsoever. Instead the government waved Cheltenham ahead and Johnson missed meeting after meeting.

The view that Corbyn would have have been as incompetent is at least arguable. The view that he would have displayed the same cavalier attitude to peoples welfare and helping people is risible.

I presume in your reference to 'competent people around Johnson' you are basically referring to Sunak, who is after all The Times' go-to good news story when they can't face criticisng the government too much (once a week, soft coated). Lest we forget Sunak was hand picked by Cummings and Johnson precisely because he's pliable and obedient, and unlike Javid allowed Cummings to select his team for him. He's not the Messiah, he's a shill like the rest of the Cabinet!

[TobyD]

What Stubs and JB said. I don't see any reason to think that a Corbyn government wouldn't have responded along the lines of the socialist Sanchez government in Spain, and gone into lockdown in line with the rest of Europe. A lot of the problems we have faced stem from that initial delay in taking any action whatsoever. Instead the government waved Cheltenham ahead and Johnson missed meeting after meeting.

The view that Corbyn would have have been as incompetent is at least arguable. The view that he would have displayed the same cavalier attitude to peoples welfare and helping people is risible.

I presume in your reference to 'competent people around Johnson' you are basically referring to Sunak, who is after all The Times' go-to good news story when they can't face criticisng the government too much (once a week, soft coated). Lest we forget Sunak was hand picked by Cummings and Johnson precisely because he's pliable and obedient, and unlike Javid allowed Cummings to select his team for him. He's not the Messiah, he's a shill like the rest of the Cabinet!

I really don't want to get mired into a debate about a totally hypothetical issue in that the UK was never going to elect Corbyn. I am interested in discussing the competence or otherwise of the current administration. I wasn't thinking of Rishi Sunak, now you mention it. The select committee chairs and some other MPs do actually know what they're doing. I think it's important to distinguish whether you are criticising someone because you disagree with or dislike them, or whether they are competent. Michael Gove is a competent politician who like any human being has made mistakes , but I really don't take to him, or agree with much of what he stands for. Just because Gove does things I don't like doesn't mean he's terrible at his job, nor is Rishi Sunak. Boris Johnson, on the other hand is manifestly shit at his job.
Dominic Cummings is bloody good if you consider his job to get the party into government, however as a PM's special adviser to run a country, he is not proving to be a roaring success to put it mildly.

[seankenny]

Even if Corbyn's management skills were genuinely worse than BritainTrump's, I can't see the response being worse simply because his politics are actually aligned with helping people. I daresay that's not how the Times would have painted it though.

Good intentions =/= good outcomes.

[teestub]

Michael Gove is a competent politician who like any human being has made mistakes , but I really don't take to him, or agree with much of what he stands for.

Okay, putting everything else aside, I’m going to need some reasoning behind this. He seems to have done a terrible job at justice and education, and whilst making some nice noises whilst environment secretary I can’t remember him actually achieving anything of note.

[Johnny Brown]

Good intentions =/= good outcomes.

Sure, but can't you agree it's a better start than bad intentions? (BTW I voted Green as well, obvs...)

[TobyD]

Good intentions =/= good outcomes.

Sure, but can't you agree it's a better start than bad intentions? (BTW I voted Green as well, obvs...)

As Steven Bush has observed several times, I feel fairly relaxed about the government announcing things I don't agree with, as they're probably not competent enough to deliver them. I think that very much the same would be true of Corbyn whatever you think of him.
I would love the days of highly adversarial zero sum politics to be numbered. It's more interesting but we'd be served far better by a more collaborative approach with less tribal name calling bullshit

[mrjonathanr]

Something like XR, and this? https://www.citizensassembly.ie/en/what-we-do/

[Johnny Brown]

I would love the days of highly adversarial zero sum politics to be numbered.

Amen to that. I think they already are tbh, the media and electorate just seem to be in denial. I can't see any way Labour could win a majority in the next ten years. Putting aside the fact that during the last election they brought a knife to the social media gunfight, the numbers simply don't add up with FPTP. Good that Starmer has put electoral reform in the manifesto, but his only hope of enacting it is in a coalition.

[spidermonkey09]

God, don't, its too depressing.

[Johnny Brown]

Well I think it's really important that people engage with the facts. Everyone seems to be stuck in a fairyland where Labour will sweep to victory like '96. It simply isn't going to happen and the next election needs fighting on that basis. And the social media campaigning/ manipulation is an even bigger problem.

[spidermonkey09]

Understandably its hard to get people enthused about that future though! To be fair, the majority is significantly smaller than the third of Blairs in 2006 which obviously ended up in coalition government. The return of the Lib Dems to relevance *might* help in this regard. Obviously Labour's main problem is the SNP and the fall of Scottish Labour.