[TobyD]

https://twitter.com/RoryStewartUK/status/1515560300040400901?t=_V8Gx41U-gcAgL5DYAExug&s=19

"“75 per cent of the public believe that Johnson lied about breaking the law, a finding that future historians may regard as a landmark moment. Only 12 per cent think he is telling the truth, roughly the same number who think aliens walk among us.”

[slab_happy]

They've not been deterred from trying the "it's just like a speeding ticket" line publicly. Doesn't seem to be going well:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2022/apr/19/boris-johnson-partygate-covid-lockdown-fine-uk-politics-live

[Paul B]

And:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-liar-poll-b2060046.html

'Liar' wouldn't be the word on the tip of my tongue but the word cloud can hardly be described as positive. I think today is going to be really risky for Parliament. If all of the honour based systems are shown to be entirely worthless (by all, not just the PM) then where does this leave us when we next come round to an election?

This will embolden him and the likes of JRM.

[SA Chris]

Not surprising JRM never got invited to any of these parties. Must be Parliament's equivalent of Colin Robinson

[TobyD]

It's gruesomely entertaining,  checking in with the news occasionally at the moment just to see what the government has fucked up today,  although it would be more so if they weren't running the country most of us live in.

[mrjonathanr]

Looks like Macron made it, despite alienating a large swathe of the population.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/24/emmanuel-macron-wins-french-presidential-election-say-projected-results

If we think government by an incontinent like Johnson is bad, imagine what a proper a proto-fascist Mme la Présidente in a neighbour as powerful as France might be like. 

[TobyD]

Looks like Macron made it, despite alienating a large swathe of the population.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/24/emmanuel-macron-wins-french-presidential-election-say-projected-results

If we think government by an incontinent like Johnson is bad, imagine what a proper a proto-fascist Mme la Présidente in a neighbour as powerful as France might be like. 

Did you mean incompetent,  or do you have inside knowledge on Johnson's bowel problems?

Le Pen would have been awful for Europe,  and geopolitical stability generally; unfortunately so would the reelection of Trump in 2024, which seems eminently possible. 

[mrjonathanr]

Lacking self-control.

Quite possibly Toby, one bullet dodged for now.

[TobyD]

Lacking self-control.

 

[tommytwotone]

I noticed that "Rigged" was trending on Twitter last night, and made the mistake of clicking through. Some of the related posts were really quite alarming.

[galpinos]

With forty odd percent of even a low turnout, that's a depressing number of people happy with voting Le Pen.

It's a victory, but still a depressing one.

[jwi]

If it had even vaguely looked a close election between Macron and Le Pen I think more people would have been arsed to vote in the second round. 58/42 is a blow-out,, despite Le Pen having spent 5 years moderating her politics (and consequently getting challenged from the right).

[TobyD]

For all the criticism Macron gets, he's done a lot better than our pitiful excuse for a government in the last 5 years. The French economy is stronger, France broadly did better in COVID (I think, I haven't looked at stats recently), and although it came to nothing, he did make an attempt to talk Putin down before the invasion, better than Johnson, who mostly ignored it until it was too late.

[mrjonathanr]

No argument from me.

[TobyD]

This is an interesting analysis: https://news.sky.com/story/boris-johnsons-personal-appeal-was-less-important-in-2019-victory-than-many-thought-12598727

Perhaps there is a parallel between the 2019 UK  general election and the recent French presidential election,  purely in that both leaders were overall pretty unpopular,  its just that one was significantly more unpopular than the other. 
I'm obviously not making any direct comparison on their relative political positions.

[tommytwotone]

Come on Toby, get with the programme - haven't you heard that the 2019 GE was all just a media conspiracy to stop the Corbyn project?!

[BrutusTheBear]

Come on Toby, get with the programme - haven't you heard that the 2019 GE was all just a media conspiracy to stop the Corbyn project?!

https://www.lboro.ac.uk/news-events/news/2019/december/press-hostility-to-labour-reaches-new-levels/
  Your thoughts welcomed having read this and the linked research 3T??

IDK why on earth the Billionaire owned msm would want to dismantle the 'Corbyn Project' aka socialist agenda.  Can't think of anything at all    Nope.  Must be a conspiracy as you say.

[BrutusTheBear]

In my opinion - 2019 was not a popularity contest but effectively a 2nd referendum on Brexit.  Corbyn definitely f'd this up, was particularly weak in leadership in this area and not prepared to confront the realities in front of him.  There's a good interview by Aaron Bastani with Len McClusky on this subject on the  tube. 

As I have said above in this thread, the continued obsession with Corbyn within the LP leadership and his ultimately toxified brand is futile/ self destructive (regardless of whether you think it was a self made toxicity or one generated by other forces).

If you are backing Starmer you must be aware that the msm are starting to raise the fact that Sir Keir was in the shadow cabinet supporting Jezza to become PM in 2019 and no amount of 'distancing' can change this. 

[TobyD]

Obviously, yes, I'm aware that Johnson uses that as an attack, as well as some of the newspapers.
I appreciate your feelings about the election, but if you look at any of the polling, Corbyns astounding unpopularity was really the issue. It's remarkable that Boris Johnson is I believe, the first PM to be more unpopular than popular on the day of his election. I've listened to a podcast with (I think) James Johnston who works for one of the polling organisations talking about this, it's fascinating.
Given that, I can sort of see the sense in Starmer spending most of the time trying to move Labour away from Corbyn and being dull but competent. Perhaps that's all he needs to do?

[sdm]

If you are backing Starmer you must be aware that the msm are starting to raise the fact that Sir Keir was in the shadow cabinet supporting Jezza to become PM in 2019 and no amount of 'distancing' can change this.

Starmer withdrew the whip from Corbyn. You can't get more distant than that. If Starmer isn't able to use that to draw a line between himself and Corbyn, there's no hope for him. It's bizarre that he consistently fails to make that point when it's brought up in PMQs.

It could also become a strong weapon for Labour at the next election if Johnson is removed: The Conservatives can't keep trying to use Starmer's past relationship with Corbyn against Labour if the next Conservative leader fails to withdraw the whip from Johnson and Sunak.

[mrjonathanr]

To rehash the Corbyn issue briefly, there can be an appetite in the country for some of the egalitarian policies, but a difficulty with the man. Clearly, the Mail et al will always go for ad hominem attacks over a politics they dislike. Recognising there are/were issues with Corbyn's appeal to the electorate is not automatically a rejection of his policies and not all of the unease from voters was generated by journalists feeding dishonest messages.

The matter for me is done. He was a highly problematical leader and Labour needs to move beyond Corbyn, both in the party and in the minds of the electorate. That is not automatically a rejection of every policy position he espoused.

[BrutusTheBear]

It's bizarre that he consistently fails to make that point when it's brought up in PMQs.

Is this an example of Starmer's dull competence?  Or is it the management of the LP's finances?  Or the treatment of LP staff?  What exactly is he supposed to be competent at?  Breaking pledges?
Good to see that they are proposing to tax the profits of fossil fuel giants, perhaps more of these popular socialist policies that he pledged to keep would do more than being just enough to win?  He slivered into the leadership by convincing the membership he would follow through with the socialist policies proposed by Jeremy with forensic competence.  If he delivered on the pledges with the promised effectiveness than I think we would be talking more than just enough.  Or would that piss the billionaires off too much?  They've got to raise some funds somehow and it's hard to see which way they can turn.

 Dull competence (unproven)  vs. brazen incompetence what a wonderful choice. 

[TobyD]

 Dull competence (unproven)  vs. brazen incompetence what a wonderful choice.

I'll go for the one who was a successful DPP and human rights lawyer,  rather than second rate journalist repeatedly sacked for lying thanks.

Given their professional records,  it doesn't really matter what I think about their ideology,  I don't represent most of the UK population.  You may think socialist policies are a good thing,  I may be pathetically enthusiastic about the EU,  most people in the UK are socially conservative (small c!), and want a broadly optimistic approach combined with fiscal reliability,  not radicalism. Faced with something they see as radical,  most people will go for almost anything else in preference.  Most people will spend less than 5 minutes paying attention to the news in a week, and just want to get on with paying the mortgage and bills, and being able to buy food and an annual holiday if they're lucky. 

[slab_happy]

For people who normally don't really care about local elections, I'd just like to point out that on Thursday you have the chance to make Boris Johnson's life much worse. Do it for spite.

[mrjonathanr]

Oh, the irony. Sarah Vine is unhappy about how the academies juggernaut is rolling over parental preferences:
https://twitter.com/WestminsterWAG/status/1503409446978048001?s=20&t=SuhZPQsSfnfBa0kP7n086A