[Yossarian]

Here you go...

https://twitter.com/MarcDavenant/status/1396734685351383042?s=20

[seankenny]

Whether it's the Iraq War, Student Fees, Austerity, or more recently BLM or Sarah Everard - the powers that be seem impervious to the need to recognise or react to strength of public opinion.

Things that lots of voters (if not lots of the public) think are good:

High and increasing house prices.

Policies that make life harder for welfare claimants.

Leaving the European Union.

Deficit reduction.

I think the powers that be are quite well attuned to the opinion of large parts of the public...

[TobyD]

Whether it's the Iraq War, Student Fees, Austerity, or more recently BLM or Sarah Everard - the powers that be seem impervious to the need to recognise or react to strength of public opinion.

Things that lots of voters (if not lots of the public) think are good:

High and increasing house prices.

Policies that make life harder for welfare claimants.

Leaving the European Union.

Deficit reduction.

I think the powers that be are quite well attuned to the opinion of large parts of the public...

Sadly I think you're right on the money there Sean. Although it may not be that many of the population it's a larger proportion of the population who actually vote.
Politics has become a lot more transactional now, and people want their house to be worth more, or pensions to be triple locked etc etc.

[mrjonathanr]

And policies to make it harder to enter and remain in the country.

[battery]

And don't forget tougher sentences for crimes (despite the fact that our prison system is already bursting at the seams, isn't for for purpose and does more harm than good in the vast majority of cases).

[mrjonathanr]

If only there were a word to describe the sort of lowest common denominator policies to make politicians popular 

[TobyD]

And don't forget tougher sentences for crimes (despite the fact that our prison system is already bursting at the seams, isn't for for purpose and does more harm than good in the vast majority of cases).

Prisons don't really work, as a deterrent or as rehabilitation; prohibition of recreational drugs is counterproductive, wealthy western countries depend economically on immigration, yet their people reject it. Will the current trend of politics change any of this?

[TobyD]

From a Times report on the latest home office announcement;

Only a radical overhaul of the immigration system that “slams the door on dangerous criminals” will meet the demands of the British people, Priti Patel will say today.

Sigh.

[TobyD]

The absolute hypocrisy of the government laying into the BBC for employing a journalist who obtained an interview on false pretences, when the prime minister was a journalist who was sacked from the Times for wait for it... making up a source for a story.
Manufactured culture war bullshit,  and Labour should be telling him that. 

[IanP]

The absolute hypocrisy of the government laying into the BBC for employing a journalist who obtained an interview on false pretences, when the prime minister was a journalist who was sacked from the Times for wait for it... making up a source for a story.
Manufactured culture war bullshit,  and Labour should be telling him that. 

Agree with almost everything you say around this sort of stuff, unfortunately unsure what the best approach  against it is.  This government does not even attempt to hide its approach / hypocrisy and is seemingly completely willing to pick up whatever culture war position it thinks can get it a few extra votes but I do worry that arguing against it passes by the majority of the electorate.

I hate the nasty populist politics of the Johnson government, a position that is shared by many on here but how does the labour party best attack this without be viewed by a significant part of the electorate as  the sort of 'woke' politics they don't like as against Johnson 'saying it like it is'? 

[TobyD]

The absolute hypocrisy of the government laying into the BBC for employing a journalist who obtained an interview on false pretences, when the prime minister was a journalist who was sacked from the Times for wait for it... making up a source for a story.
Manufactured culture war bullshit,  and Labour should be telling him that. 

Agree with almost everything you say around this sort of stuff, unfortunately unsure what the best approach  against it is.  This government does not even attempt to hide its approach / hypocrisy and is seemingly completely willing to pick up whatever culture war position it thinks can get it a few extra votes but I do worry that arguing against it passes by the majority of the electorate.

I hate the nasty populist politics of the Johnson government, a position that is shared by many on here but how does the labour party best attack this without be viewed by a significant part of the electorate as  the sort of 'woke' politics they don't like as against Johnson 'saying it like it is'?

Go after his government's failure to a) manage COVID effectively  b)have a functioning justice system- look at how long you might have to wait for a trial of any sort  c) manage the prison system d) develop anything,  even a fucking sentence on social care which isn't along the lines of the dog ate my fucking homework  which is all Johnson can say e) do anything about Zaghari Radcliffe despite Raab being slightly more competent than most of his team of utter halfwits. 

Apologies to anyone reading,  I'm angry about the government at the moment,  I should go do some work to chill out a bit !

[IanP]

No apology required, I share your pain!! It's good to be clear that the dislike of this government is shared by the centre left as much as the Corbyn wing of the labour party.

Agree that there is plenty of substance to attack Johnson on, hopefully once the positive spin they put on the vaccination program starts to dissipate some of it can make some impact.

[Moo]

I've really no idea what to make of this.

https://metro.co.uk/2021/05/23/keir-starmer-breaks-down-in-tears-talking-about-his-mum-with-piers-morgan-14630187/

I fear it could make quite painful viewing for some.

[BrutusTheBear]

No apology required, I share your pain!! It's good to be clear that the dislike of this government is shared by the centre left as much as the Corbyn wing of the labour party.

  Whilst we're on a ranty tip. This annoys the shit out of me. It's not the Corbyn wing of the party, it is the left wing of the party, the root of party and for that matter the core of activism within the party.  The Corbyn (tm) brand has been successfully toxified to the extent that I feel the sense of hatred and bile when the name is mentioned.  The left will be here forever,  Corbyn is from it not the core of it...

[battery]

Was talking to my 90 year old, daily express reading neighbour and tried to point out some of the lies, crookedness and general incompetence of the government to be met only with a 'Boris has done alright, he's got us out of that Europe, and it's all just labour sleaze tactics and fake news'  type response. Politics has become a faith rather than a reasoned decision.

[Yossarian]

No apology required, I share your pain!! It's good to be clear that the dislike of this government is shared by the centre left as much as the Corbyn wing of the labour party.

  Whilst we're on a ranty tip. This annoys the shit out of me. It's not the Corbyn wing of the party, it is the left wing of the party, the root of party and for that matter the core of activism within the party.  The Corbyn (tm) brand has been successfully toxified to the extent that I feel the sense of hatred and bile when the name is mentioned.  The left will be here forever,  Corbyn is from it not the core of it...

“This will never work, Tom. We’re from opposite ends of the same wing of the same political party.”

[IanP]

No apology required, I share your pain!! It's good to be clear that the dislike of this government is shared by the centre left as much as the Corbyn wing of the labour party.

  Whilst we're on a ranty tip. This annoys the shit out of me. It's not the Corbyn wing of the party, it is the left wing of the party, the root of party and for that matter the core of activism within the party.  The Corbyn (tm) brand has been successfully toxified to the extent that I feel the sense of hatred and bile when the name is mentioned.  The left will be here forever,  Corbyn is from it not the core of it...

Fair enough maybe, but would you really have been much happier if I'd said the left wing of the labour party?  Left wing or left of centre, isn't the fight against a horrible right wing populist government more important? Why pick on this rather than considering what you might share with Toby (and me) in your antipathy to the current government   

[TobyD]

No apology required, I share your pain!! It's good to be clear that the dislike of this government is shared by the centre left as much as the Corbyn wing of the labour party.

  Whilst we're on a ranty tip. This annoys the shit out of me. It's not the Corbyn wing of the party, it is the left wing of the party, the root of party and for that matter the core of activism within the party.  The Corbyn (tm) brand has been successfully toxified to the extent that I feel the sense of hatred and bile when the name is mentioned.  The left will be here forever,  Corbyn is from it not the core of it...

Fair enough maybe, but would you really have been much happier if I'd said the left wing of the labour party?  Left wing or left of centre, isn't the fight against a horrible right wing populist government more important? Why pick on this rather than considering what you might share with Toby (and me) in your antipathy to the current government   

Some of that is particularly interesting; the current government isn't really Conservative, in the way that Theresa May is, or the party used to be. They are right wing on culture and lean towards the left on economics.
My main argument with them is less about their ideology, it's the fact that they're fucking useless, they're virtually all shit at their jobs. Boris didn't even really do Brexit; Theresa May did much of the work, and he merely dropped Northern Ireland in the shit to make it easier, knowing that few people in England pay much attention to it.

[BrutusTheBear]

No apology required, I share your pain!! It's good to be clear that the dislike of this government is shared by the centre left as much as the Corbyn wing of the labour party.

  Whilst we're on a ranty tip. This annoys the shit out of me. It's not the Corbyn wing of the party, it is the left wing of the party, the root of party and for that matter the core of activism within the party.  The Corbyn (tm) brand has been successfully toxified to the extent that I feel the sense of hatred and bile when the name is mentioned.  The left will be here forever,  Corbyn is from it not the core of it...

Fair enough maybe, but would you really have been much happier if I'd said the left wing of the labour party?  Left wing or left of centre, isn't the fight against a horrible right wing populist government more important? Why pick on this rather than considering what you might share with Toby (and me) in your antipathy to the current government   

Because I feel it is a contribitative part of the same problem.  It is more than just a Political problem, our culture and the populism we are appalled with is fed to the masses, the narratives are driven by those with the wealth and power necessary to be able to control them.
 
 From where I'm sitting it doesn't look like there is any strength, passion or commitment to resistance coming from those at the helm of HMs opposition.  It would appear they don't wish to do or say anything that could be associated with Corbyn name, that they are seeking the backing of the MSM which won't be forthcoming.  And the further we slide
...

[TobyD]

.....It would appear they don't wish to do or say anything that could be associated with Corbyn name, that they are seeking the backing of the MSM which won't be forthcoming.  And the further we slide
...

I'm sorry to say that this post just reads like a confused conspiracy theory that characterises both of the sides of political debate in the UK and the US. They both rely on claims of victimhood,  that all the media and the establishment are against them. I don't think it was a terribly useful response to Ian's post. Corbyn was indubitably the most unpopular politician to lead a party for some time. His attitudes on foreign affairs on their own made him fundamentally unelectable,  as well as being poorly thought out and articulated.  I'd certainly say that not all of his ideas were bad, but he was totally unsuited to leading a party, let alone a country.
Starmer is not exactly a spectacular  or inspirational figure and I doubt that he will ever lead the country,  but he may provide a good caretaker to edge the Labour party back to being electable.  You cannot win an election in this country by promising radicalism and revolution,  its not what most people want. 

[TobyD]

Cummings is being questioned now, hes surprisingly contrite, and has repeatedly apologised for his own actions, but still laying into the government:

But, he says, the government was “not operating on a war footing” on this in February. Lots of people were “literally skiing”.

Q: Were you operating on a war footing?

Cummings says the PM “went on holiday for two weeks”.

(Boris Johnson was at Chevening at the time. No 10 has always denied he was on holiday. They claim he was working.)

Theres a live stream on the Guardian website. 

[petejh]

It's live on the beeb, all very interesting. The field of behavioural science getting a drubbing. 

[tomtom]

Still going on... possibly the only person who comes out of this worse than the PM is Hancock...

Wonder if he'll get thrown under the bus

[JohnM]

Whatever you think of Cummings it is bizarre to see that there has been such a void of leadership or responsibility in the government that again Cummings is being given his own platform (again) to show case all the shortcomings and failings.

[dr_botnik]

Whatever you think of Cummings it is bizarre to see that there has been such a void of leadership or responsibility in the government that again Cummings is being given his own platform (again) to show case all the shortcomings and failings.

apparently Cummings' Damascene moment has occurred after he was forced out of his powerful position by Carrie Symonds, Johnson's current fiancé. Murdoch who owns the Times and employs Gove (who wants Johnson's job) and the Daily Mail (who employ Gove's wife) are fanning the anti-Johnson flames whilst The Telegraph (who used to employ Johnson) and the BBC are trying to mitigate these stories. It's like a really boring GoT with no dragons and sex scenes that turn you off (but probably a higher body count)