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Topic split - chasing a spectre (Read 97848 times)

Danny

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#225 Re: Topic split - chasing a spectre
December 10, 2019, 03:37:11 pm
Poor neglected 7B

The grade Will’s projects end up at when other folk do them 😁

Also the grade I give pretty much all my FAs that take me more than one session, but less than ten sessions. I haven't a clue really.

Will Hunt

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#226 Re: Topic split - chasing a spectre
December 10, 2019, 03:48:31 pm
Poor neglected 7B

The grade Will’s projects end up at when other folk do them 😁

True! I did abseil down Pruneaux some time ago. 7B now.

SA Chris

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#227 Re: Topic split - chasing a spectre
December 10, 2019, 03:53:39 pm
I haven't a clue really.

Let's face it, not many of us have. That's why concensus grading is needed.

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#228 Re: Topic split - chasing a spectre
December 10, 2019, 04:11:06 pm
What's the deal with Lucid Dreaming, while we're speculating?

The clue is in the name...

The controversy seems to be that when Robinson finally sent he did it by himself at night (incredibly bold), and he forgot to bring a video camera that was given to him by the people filming him working it.

The full story (retold by robinson in link I posted) is that sender films spent a week with paul videoing him working LD. He did not send it and they had to leave, but Paul stayed on past t-giving. They gave him a camera and told him to video the send if it happened. He forgot to charge the batteries and headed out for a morning solo sesh. Sent the boulder and then apologized to sender. Those guys were furious they didnt get their film and spread the rumor that paul had fabricated his ascent.

Personally I dont doubt him because he's clearly strong enough to climb this and its 100% his style. However without witnesses and uncut footy he has no proof, so no one will ever know for sure other than Paul.

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#229 Re: Topic split - chasing a spectre
December 10, 2019, 04:32:27 pm
Never heard that before about lucid dreaming.

I feel inclined to give it to him. I for one have done stuff near or at my limit with no witnesses and no video. There was however nothing at stake. If you discount the silver spoon I am not sponsored and am unlikely to prevent anyone else from gaining sponsorship/ making a living as a result of my claiming this or that.

Has there been much noise about it?

owensum

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#230 Re: Topic split - chasing a spectre
December 10, 2019, 04:41:49 pm
Just scurrilous rumors, no explicit show-down or lengthy blog post call-out or anything like that. Paul describes being ostracized from his peers, Dave Graham, Daniel Woods, etc. who sided with sender without hearing his side of the story. Paul now is really into videography and film making, ironically, probably from this episode in his life. The way he describes it, he was totally blind-sided by it.

T_B

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#231 Re: Topic split - chasing a spectre
December 10, 2019, 04:55:44 pm
The simplest thing would be to return and repeat it. It’s not the summit of Nanga Parbat is it? It’s a boulder problem. You don’t need a partner, nor a rope and you know you can do it if you’ve done it before. These wads aren’t exactly squeezed on time as far as I can tell.

cowboyhat

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#232 Re: Topic split - chasing a spectre
December 10, 2019, 04:59:18 pm
Never heard that before about lucid dreaming.

I feel inclined to give it to him. I for one have done stuff near or at my limit with no witnesses and no video.


Sorry fallen into our own trap here, totally contradictory and inconsistent. Which proves how nuanced it is.

For a repeat lucid is pretty low percentage non? P-Rob does have a legit cv with no holes. But as Dan pointed out back on page one; it often tends to be a strange mix of fact and fiction.

Reminds me now I think about it of steven jefferies. Climbed with him in utah in 2001; I was incredibly impressed by how strong he was. Real deal, as good as anyone i'd seen at that point. BUT over a couple of 2% ales in salt lake even his own friends were very quick to spill the beans, call him out, saying he lied about this or that. One guy said they were trying black lung, he goes for a piss then suddenly Jefferies appears over the boulder saying he'd done it. (would have been 2nd ascent). Simply didn't believe him. I couldn't get my head round this because it was so clear he was capable. And these were his friends he climbed with every day. It seemed to stem from the first ascent of this 8b+ he'd claimed, can't remember exactly why but they didn't believe he'd done it.

owensum

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#233 Re: Topic split - chasing a spectre
December 10, 2019, 05:02:51 pm
Yeah it seems fair, but not operating at 8C myself I have no idea how hard that would be to do. My understanding is that LD has a low-percentage move and is extremely sharp, only allowing a few good burns a session.

I can definitely see how a strong wad who has done the moves individually but is running out of patience for the link, especially with time/skin/weather issues, just says f*ck it and makes up the send.

Conclusion, uncut footy solves all the debate. No one is questioning Burden of dreams...

owensum

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#234 Re: Topic split - chasing a spectre
December 10, 2019, 05:45:53 pm
Neil Gresham weighing in on the Said controversy: https://www.instagram.com/p/B55pC3FJCCC/

mrjonathanr

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#235 Re: Topic split - chasing a spectre
December 10, 2019, 06:01:54 pm
People do great things off camera, for sure. It's the mystery belayer thing I find strange.

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#236 Re: Topic split - chasing a spectre
December 10, 2019, 06:14:01 pm
https://www.8a.nu/forum/editorial/-49583

There's some interesting discussion on this topic here, with some weigh-ins from some wads... This Jens guy seems to have an odd viewpoint

Fiend

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#237 Re: Topic split - chasing a spectre
December 10, 2019, 06:29:53 pm
Isn't there footage of P-Rob on a trillion 8B/+/Cs that would indicate adequate form to not even bother doubting Lucid Dreaming??

If G-skizzle had footage of half his 8B+ ascents this thread would never have started I bet.

Danny

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#238 Re: Topic split - chasing a spectre
December 10, 2019, 06:43:05 pm
Some ad hom nonsense from Gresham there flaming Hannes Huch. The idea that the motivation for this call out is clicks and followers is laughable. There are legit holes in Said's story. If I were Said and I'd actually climbed the route I'd be en route to AD right now with the intention of at least boshing out a few links. AD is a historic route, it's still clearly hard for a lot of climbers, and the locals have every right to call out suspicious claims as they see them. The section on it in the Megos film speaks to the standing and legacy of the route, even for someone who actually dispatched it in a couple of hours.     

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#239 Re: Topic split - chasing a spectre
December 10, 2019, 06:44:53 pm
Isn't there footage of P-Rob on a trillion 8B/+/Cs that would indicate adequate form to not even bother doubting Lucid Dreaming??

If G-skizzle had footage of half his 8B+ ascents this thread would never have started I bet.

I don't know about that, I have seen enough people dismiss exactly this logic on these forums enough times when people claim they have seen G climbing well ('warming up' on Hubble, big links on Brandenburg etc). I don't think even that would help! Rich Simpson on AD would be a prime example of this: everyone knows how strong he was, he even has big links on camera, but his ascent is widely considered to be fabricated (though this is also be due to the mystery belayer aspect).

Being filmed on loads of hard boulders does give a certain amount of confidence to PR's claims though. And given how long it took to get repeated, it doesn't seem he was in a race for the FA. I don't see why he would have invented the ascent just because there is no footage  :shrug: I would be inclined to give PR the benefit of the doubt.

Coops_13

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#240 Re: Topic split - chasing a spectre
December 10, 2019, 06:45:20 pm
Isn't there footage of P-Rob on a trillion 8B/+/Cs that would indicate adequate form to not even bother doubting Lucid Dreaming??

If G-skizzle had footage of half his 8B+ ascents this thread would never have started I bet.
He's doing a youtube countdown to his 1000th 8 so think there's quite a lot on there (albeit lots of lower 8s too)

Danny

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#241 Re: Topic split - chasing a spectre
December 10, 2019, 06:47:03 pm
This thread has turned into a holding area for the suspicious and BS claims du jour. Maybe it should be pinned and used as such going forward.

AMorris

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#242 Re: Topic split - chasing a spectre
December 10, 2019, 06:49:19 pm
Neil Gresham weighing in on the Said controversy: https://www.instagram.com/p/B55pC3FJCCC/

Somewhat ironic that someone has invoked Gaskins as an example of another 'underground crusher' [sic] in the comments  :lol:

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#243 Re: Topic split - chasing a spectre
December 10, 2019, 07:00:00 pm
 :lol:

''Under cover crushers are the real hero’s . How many videos of gaskins are around and he’s maybe one of the strongest unknown dudes around. I don’t know @said_belhaj but I don’t doubt that he could climb AD or anything he put his mind to. Sad that people have to put others down for no good reason. Not everyone wants to be on film as you said @neil.gresham''

Well I'm convinced. Case closed move on haters.

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#244 Re: Topic split - chasing a spectre
December 10, 2019, 07:05:20 pm
Time for someone to do a shit beneath AD at least.

Yossarian

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#245 Re: Topic split - chasing a spectre
December 10, 2019, 07:10:40 pm
That carefully prepared selection of bulletproof evidence is eerily reminiscent of Coleen Rooney...

cowboyhat

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#246 Re: Topic split - chasing a spectre
December 10, 2019, 08:10:35 pm
Time for someone to do a shit beneath AD at least.

Thank you!

Fucking ukb. Again. Love it.

Mr E S Capegoat

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#247 Re: Topic split - chasing a spectre
December 10, 2019, 08:14:33 pm
This thread has turned into a holding area for the suspicious and BS claims du jour. Maybe it should be pinned and used as such going forward.

A cohort of ukb molehills frothing at the maw over the shaming possibilities of exposing witches. Sounds ace  :popcorn:

cowboyhat

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#248 Re: Topic split - chasing a spectre
December 10, 2019, 08:17:33 pm
Isn't there footage of P-Rob on a trillion 8B/+/Cs that would indicate adequate form to not even bother doubting Lucid Dreaming??

If G-skizzle had footage of half his 8B+ ascents this thread would never have started I bet.

I don't know about that, I have seen enough people dismiss exactly this logic on these forums enough times when people claim they have seen G climbing well ('warming up' on Hubble, big links on Brandenburg etc). I don't think even that would help! Rich Simpson on AD would be a prime example of this: everyone knows how strong he was, he even has big links on camera, but his ascent is widely considered to be fabricated (though this is also be due to the mystery belayer aspect).

Being filmed on loads of hard boulders does give a certain amount of confidence to PR's claims though. And given how long it took to get repeated, it doesn't seem he was in a race for the FA. I don't see why he would have invented the ascent just because there is no footage  :shrug: I would be inclined to give PR the benefit of the doubt.

This sums it up and is what I was inarticulately trying to say earlier. PR has really great form.
And as for that Said guy. Its plain climbing other 9's would have zero cross over with that tweaky mono specialism.

The bs thread is a great idea.

Danny

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#249 Re: Topic split - chasing a spectre
December 10, 2019, 08:34:20 pm
This thread has turned into a holding area for the suspicious and BS claims du jour. Maybe it should be pinned and used as such going forward.

A cohort of ukb molehills frothing at the maw over the shaming possibilities of exposing witches. Sounds ace  :popcorn:

If the rate at which you've contributed to this thread is indicative then you're going to love it. Better grab yourself another couple of popcorn emojis and saddle up. Part of you seems to yearn for the pre-insta halcyon days of beardy, baldy bullshitters, who could do whatever mediocre ledge shuffling they fancied and then milk it over decades-long book tours. But I've got a pitchfork with your name on it, comrade.

 

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