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Topic split - chasing a spectre (Read 42914 times)

wasbeen

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#350 Re: Topic split - chasing a spectre
December 19, 2019, 08:43:28 pm


I think there's a big difference to the doping aspect, so I don't think it's a good comparison.  In cycling there was no doubt about the accomplishments, but instead about the method they achieved them.  I'm 100% certain that climbers are using PED's as well, and some of it has been talked about but then gets brushed under the rug.  If someone was using performance enhancing drugs for a world class send, would that invalidate their send?  Do we start drug testing for climbing outside? Where do you draw the line?

Climbing outside is a social hobby game.  It's like a surfer who said they rode a serious break, and then some other surfer said, no you didn't.  no video no proof.  We've created rules and expectations for ourselves, but that's kind of it. I think it's important to call these things out, but I still think they're part of the tapestry of climbing as a whole that is important. 

Can you name the victims? And what was lost/stolen from them?

I don't think there is such a big difference between doping in cycling and lying in climbing.  Either way accomplishments are being claimed that are not truly deserved. Any yes, if a climber took drugs on a world class send it would invalidate their ascent in my eyes. Sadly, I agree that  PEDs in climbing are inevitable - perhaps that will be the true cost of the Olympics. Historically , the most effective way to keep doping out of sport has been to keep the money out.

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#351 Re: Topic split - chasing a spectre
December 19, 2019, 09:19:40 pm
The controversy is now bigger than whatever did it didnít happen.

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#352 Re: Topic split - chasing a spectre
December 20, 2019, 06:52:31 am
I have no evidence, other than my own imaginings, but I suspect that Shark has already done The Oak and he is stringing us all along with his siege saga purely to generate internet traffic (and therefore revenue).
I've phoned the BMC hotline and have a Rumor Reference Number in case I need to make a counter claim.

tomtom

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#353 Re: Topic split - chasing a spectre
December 20, 2019, 07:57:40 am
I've phoned the BMC hotline and have a Rumor Reference Number in case I need to make a counter claim.

I feel uneasy about this statement. Were there any witnesses to your phone call (that were not Spanish spotters or German belayers)?

To cover off all eventualities I have also called the BMC hotline and have a rumour reference number in respect to your rumour.

Just for the unforseeable eventuality that we may have to initiate the UKB impeachment procedure.

Johnny Brown

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#354 Re: Topic split - chasing a spectre
December 20, 2019, 08:09:33 am
Quote
m much more comfortable with the idea that people who fit into the (absolutely tiny) category of sponsored climbers who make ascents of top-end climbs alone or with only uncontactable strangers to witness should be expected to provide video evidence than with a situation where people who express doubt of such ascents are pilloried for doing so or that people are making weird Michael-Jackson-fan-like "we believe in you, you are the best" comments about pro climbers they've never met online like the ones that can be seen on Belhaj's Instagram and that Gresham was encouraging on his short-lived post.

Nail on head. End of discussion.

SA Chris

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#355 Re: Topic split - chasing a spectre
December 20, 2019, 09:13:43 am

It's like a surfer who said they rode a serious break, and then some other surfer said, no you didn't.  no video no proof. 

You mean; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Clark_(surfer)

Difference is surfers like spots to be kept secret!
 

mrjonathanr

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#356 Re: Topic split - chasing a spectre
December 20, 2019, 09:17:55 am
When you do it for kicks, thereís no obligation to gather evidence.

When you do it for money, there is.

tomtom

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#357 Re: Topic split - chasing a spectre
December 20, 2019, 09:33:52 am
When you do it for kicks, thereís no obligation to gather evidence.

When you do it for money, there is.

True. Though with social media thrown in the lines become blurred..

likes can add to the kicks and followers and subscribers can be a currency.

grimer

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#358 Re: Topic split - chasing a spectre
December 20, 2019, 10:10:03 am
If lying is so bad, how come we have all gotten about 99 times more entertainment out of all this than we have out of Buster Martin doing First Ley?

I had thought the Golden Era of the Climbing Fantasist was over. There's still hope!

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#359 Re: Topic split - chasing a spectre
December 20, 2019, 10:23:19 am
A teaching assistant I used to work with was very insistent that her boyfriend had soloed the Indian Face, on sight no less. I expressed some scepticism, but she wasnít having any of it.

But he didnít get paid for his climbing or announce it on the internet.

I find the idea that an intelligent sponsored climber would announce a major ascent but be unable even to identify the belayer just preposterous.

Ghosts donít belay, people do. If you canít identify the belayer on an internationally significant ascent, thatís because there wasnít one.

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#360 Re: Topic split - chasing a spectre
December 20, 2019, 10:38:05 am
Are you saying he soloed it??? :)

webbo

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#361 Re: Topic split - chasing a spectre
December 20, 2019, 10:47:20 am
A teaching assistant I used to work with was very insistent that her boyfriend had soloed the Indian Face, on sight no less. I expressed some scepticism, but she wasnít having any of it.

But he didnít get paid for his climbing or announce it on the internet.


I think you should post this in the thread on the other channel. I would love to see the response.

tomtom

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#362 Re: Topic split - chasing a spectre
December 20, 2019, 10:48:47 am
Are you saying he soloed it??? :)

Shark had soloed IF? Impressive!

crzylgs

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#363 Re: Topic split - chasing a spectre
December 20, 2019, 12:43:00 pm
I find the idea that an intelligent sponsored climber would announce a major ascent but be unable even to identify the belayer just preposterous.

Ghosts donít belay, people do. If you canít identify the belayer on an internationally significant ascent, thatís because there wasnít one.

That should be a thread ender  :clap2:

Lets assume Said (or anyone else) was planning with genuine intention to travel to Frankenjura and send AD... would you not line up a potential belay / climbing partner or two or three just in case? If not could you find yourself at the crag, with perfect sending conditions and with nobody around to belay you?  :slap:

shark

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#364 Re: Topic split - chasing a spectre
December 20, 2019, 01:34:07 pm
Are you saying he soloed it??? :)

Shark had soloed IF? Impressive!

I don't like to talk about it - it was a personal thing. Also not too keen that my wife finds out I've got a girlfriend. Not that impressive- its only 7b+ after all so obviously I'm well capable of it - nowhere near as hard as Bens Roof for example. I thought I might as well solo it as the gear is shite and I didnt want a belayer short roping me. I've got video evidence too - but not showing it to doubters

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#365 Re: Topic split - chasing a spectre
December 20, 2019, 01:36:30 pm

mrjonathanr

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#366 Re: Topic split - chasing a spectre
December 20, 2019, 01:41:04 pm
Cheers crzylgs

I donít want to open a  :worms: but do people realise thereís no actual uncut footage of the IF first ascent? And both belayers have left the country?


I know the isnít ukc, but just in case I walk away and discover thereís 200 posts from an online lynch mob, Johnny did actually do the route and I was genuinely concerned by the possibility he might land on my head from 100í up. Bob Drury and Sean Myles belayed on each rope

SA Chris

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#367 Re: Topic split - chasing a spectre
December 20, 2019, 01:46:00 pm
Wasn't there a cartoon about Redhead climbing Indian Face belayed by a giant rabbit? Or was i tripping

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#368 Re: Topic split - chasing a spectre
December 20, 2019, 02:00:25 pm
Probably John Bunney. 

T_B

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#369 Re: Topic split - chasing a spectre
December 20, 2019, 02:01:32 pm
A teaching assistant I used to work with was very insistent that her boyfriend had soloed the Indian Face, on sight no less. I expressed some scepticism, but she wasnít having any of it.

But he didnít get paid for his climbing or announce it on the internet.


I think you should post this in the thread on the other channel. I would love to see the response.

I had a similar thing where a very good mate of mine's wife insisted she'd done Cry Freedom at Malham. This was some years ago, certainly before a British woman had climbed 8c. They're now divorced.

Bradders

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#370 Re: Topic split - chasing a spectre
December 20, 2019, 02:56:47 pm
I had a similar thing where a very good mate of mine's wife insisted she'd done Cry Freedom at Malham. This was some years ago, certainly before a British woman had climbed 8c. They're now divorced.

Did he just keep asking her who her belayer was?

tomtom

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#371 Re: Topic split - chasing a spectre
December 20, 2019, 03:32:13 pm
I had a similar thing where a very good mate of mine's wife insisted she'd done Cry Freedom at Malham. This was some years ago, certainly before a British woman had climbed 8c. They're now divorced.

Did he just keep asking her who her belayer was?

Shark. Obvs. 😃

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#372 Re: Topic split - chasing a spectre
December 22, 2019, 11:40:08 am
I have no evidence, other than my own imaginings, but I suspect that Shark has already done The Oak and he is stringing us all along with his siege saga purely to generate internet traffic (and therefore revenue).
I've phoned the BMC hotline and have a Rumor Reference Number in case I need to make a counter claim.

Please no 'Shark Watch' Facebook group.

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#373 Re: Topic split - chasing a spectre
December 23, 2019, 06:34:29 pm
There's a mea culpa in this video about lying about climbing. Seems pertinent to the discussion.


webbo

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#374 Re: Topic split - chasing a spectre
December 23, 2019, 07:21:43 pm
It is but weíve already had it on page 7.

 

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