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Naturally strong? (Read 24249 times)

Liamhutch89

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Naturally strong?
November 26, 2019, 01:22:58 pm
Last night I got a friend of mine on a fingerboard for the 1st time. He's late 20's, been climbing for 3-4 years and has never done any training aside from just climbing.

At around 13 stone (80+kg) body weight he 1 armed the small crimps on a beastmaker 2000 whilst holding a 10kg plate in the other hand. He then hung the 45 degree slopers with the 10kg plate between his legs for basically as long as he wanted to.

What is this wizardry? Genetics? Manual job? surely holding tools all day is endurance? I don't know whether to be inspired or give up! I strive for 1kg gains in finger strength over a month whilst only being half as strong!

abarro81

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#1 Re: Naturally strong?
November 26, 2019, 01:30:10 pm
Presumably he boulders  8C or has no legs? Anything else doesn't compute

lagerstarfish

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#2 Re: Naturally strong?
November 26, 2019, 01:30:29 pm
don't tell him about weight loss or footwork...

Ru

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#3 Re: Naturally strong?
November 26, 2019, 01:33:26 pm
Isn't the lattice record for holding a lattice rung one handed (a bit bigger than the beastmaker crimp) about 90kg?

abarro81

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#4 Re: Naturally strong?
November 26, 2019, 01:36:51 pm
Yeah, sounds like he's stronger in absolute kg than Vadim Timonov, Bosi, Betto, Megos etc

mr chaz

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#5 Re: Naturally strong?
November 26, 2019, 01:39:19 pm
Presumably follows the same non-training plan as Ste Mac

Fiend

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#6 Re: Naturally strong?
November 26, 2019, 01:51:58 pm
I don't know whether to be inspired or give up! I strive for 1kg gains in finger strength over a month whilst only being half as strong!

You better fucking get used to it. Climbing gets pretty hard when you look at all the skinny / overly strong cunts who are skinnier / overly stronger than you are.

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#7 Re: Naturally strong?
November 26, 2019, 01:54:20 pm
I don't know whether to be inspired or give up! I strive for 1kg gains in finger strength over a month whilst only being half as strong!

You better fucking get used to it. Climbing gets pretty hard when you look at all the skinny / overly strong cunts who are skinnier / overly stronger than you are.

Amen.

A-fucking-men.

remus

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#8 Re: Naturally strong?
November 26, 2019, 02:08:56 pm
Isn't the lattice record for holding a lattice rung one handed (a bit bigger than the beastmaker crimp) about 90kg?

95kg https://www.instagram.com/p/B5GSxD8j0hX/

Worth noting it's gotta be a 5 sec hang.

carlisle slapper

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#9 Re: Naturally strong?
November 26, 2019, 02:20:55 pm
Very Impressive for a heavy climber

Small rung on the 2000 is 14mm. Yves Gravelle can hold it with +25kg in a chisel. He's 66kg. I think thats the current record

The record for 19-20mm edge will be over 110kg i reckon if the right person hops on one, Sam Edwards would need to come out of retirement or Tanner Merkle to start fingerboarding IMO but its plenty doable, Bet Jimmy, martin stranik and Jan would post some decent numbers too as key "heavy" outliers.

I've popped a vid of me doing 101kg on my shit wrist on the 19mm drag on the 2000 on the beastmaker flickr, My left is stronger than my right as that's rehabbing an old lumbrical tear still. +138%ish but a fairly half arsed effort in the middle of a fingerboarding session. Basically how you hold the edge has massive implications to climbing, those are details i'd never overlook if i was looking to improve. I'd love to see people moving through steep ground on 10mm edges using a chisel grip, because i never have. Chisel is decent for compression at full span though.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/beastmaker/49090983531/in/dateposted/


carlisle slapper

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#10 Re: Naturally strong?
November 26, 2019, 02:22:34 pm
Dab on that 95kg

Fiend

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#11 Re: Naturally strong?
November 26, 2019, 02:30:08 pm
Video needed more flexing.

teestub

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#12 Re: Naturally strong?
November 26, 2019, 02:33:29 pm
but a fairly half arsed effort in the middle of a fingerboarding session.

That overbite for power doesn’t make it look very half arsed!  ;D

Liamhutch89

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#13 Re: Naturally strong?
November 26, 2019, 02:37:30 pm
Presumably he boulders  8C or has no legs? Anything else doesn't compute

He does the 'yellow circuit' at the depot and a handful of oranges.

don't tell him about weight loss or footwork...

Indeed, though he's buying a bloody beastmaker for christmas now!

remus

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#14 Re: Naturally strong?
November 26, 2019, 02:39:33 pm
The record for 19-20mm edge will be over 110kg i reckon if the right person hops on one, Sam Edwards would need to come out of retirement or Tanner Merkle to start fingerboarding IMO but its plenty doable, Bet Jimmy, martin stranik and Jan would post some decent numbers too as key "heavy" outliers.

Depends quite a bit on the exact edge being used I reckon. Front/back radius have quite a big effect, as does a 'pocket' style edge vs a campus rung style edge. I'm sure we're a long way off the maximum though, climbing is very niche (relatively speaking) so it seems likely there's some 100kg beast in a russian backwater who's spent his life splitting logs and carrying bricks who's just waiting to pick up a 25kg plate and hang from one arm for 5 seconds from a precisely proportioned edge.

Quote
I've popped a vid of me doing 101kg on my shit wrist on the 19mm drag on the 2000 on the beastmaker flickr, My left is stronger than my right as that's rehabbing an old lumbrical tear still. +138%ish but a fairly half arsed effort in the middle of a fingerboarding session. Basically how you hold the edge has massive implications to climbing, those are details i'd never overlook if i was looking to improve. I'd love to see people moving through steep ground on 10mm edges using a chisel grip, because i never have. Chisel is decent for compression at full span though.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/beastmaker/49090983531/in/dateposted/

That's a strong effort any day of the week! Reckon it's far off your best?

carlisle slapper

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#15 Re: Naturally strong?
November 26, 2019, 03:25:40 pm
All edges are different i'd agree however i'd argue the grip type has far far more variation than relatively similar edges of the same depth. My breakdown (PBs) is roughly 138% (drag) to 122% (half crimp pinky straight) 95% (half crimp all fingers bent) so to not differentiate between edges but say any old grip is fine is a funny approach from where im stood. The Lattice rung suits a drag or chisel thanks to its rounded chamfer so that Austrian chap is missing a trick on his half crimp but he makes up for it by stopping his rotation with a weighted leg on the frame. pockets only have a benefit if you get friction off both sides. With temp. humidity woodtype etc the level of extraneous variables on these things is still pub science amateur punting at the moment.

I could do more on the drag for sure, i was stronger on it in 2015 pre kids and hospital visits (full sets of +16kg on both sides as part of a session) but never did a 1RM then.

My goal has always been to translate the fingerboard strength to outdoors so at the moment i'm trying to build back up on the small crimps at max as they still aggrevate the back of my carpal band which got torn to bits. That's my biggest weakness at the moment. The crux of my problem at christianbury was fairly limit on my drag and pocket strength so thats the main reason its so good right now. Now that's done though, my next unfinished stuff is back on the ming. If i wanted to just mong heavy weights on edges i'd train Chisel way more as its the most biomechanically strong grip for deadhanging but its the most useless outdoors as it allows the least wrist movement compared to the others. I'd much rather leave a really hard testpiece with the strength i develop than an edge benchmark but its fun to see where people are at, in many ways they're the most accurate grades, absolute and BW fingerstrength ratios.

 grip strength for rock climbers should reflect their goals, be it allround or big numbers on volcanics or big numbers in font. You'd want to train very differently for those goals from the fingers backwards. Ideally you'd prioritise them by bodytype. Font is a very unfriendly place for midgets no matter what your fingerstrength is.

Bradders

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#16 Re: Naturally strong?
November 26, 2019, 03:27:08 pm
Indeed, though he's buying a bloody beastmaker for christmas now!

I mean, this is literally the last thing he needs to do to improve with those numbers.

All about working on your own weaknesses init, don't compare yourself to others.

Liamhutch89

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#17 Re: Naturally strong?
November 26, 2019, 03:44:27 pm
Indeed, though he's buying a bloody beastmaker for christmas now!

I mean, this is literally the last thing he needs to do to improve with those numbers.

All about working on your own weaknesses init, don't compare yourself to others.

Personally i'm looking forward to his campus grade been equal to that using all limbs

Fiend

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#18 Re: Naturally strong?
November 26, 2019, 04:25:34 pm
so it seems likely there's some 100kg beast in a russian backwater who's spent his life splitting logs and carrying bricks who's just waiting to pick up a 25kg plate and hang from one arm for 5 seconds from a precisely proportioned edge.

They always have to be secret russian or eastern bloc beasts don't they ;)

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#19 Re: Naturally strong?
November 26, 2019, 04:45:37 pm
Very Impressive for a heavy climber


You calling me fat?

cheque

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#20 Re: Naturally strong?
November 26, 2019, 04:47:07 pm
I weigh ~60kg and can’t imagine being able to hang off anything but 20mm edges with added weight. I can’t hang off most holds on my BM1000 for more than a few seconds without added weight and can only hang off jugs one-handed. I kneel on mechanical scales when I fingerboard and use that to gauge my glacial progress towards unassisted hangs. :look: The figures people (as in the average UKB user, not just 8B wads) post on here are amazing to me.

There must be a range of predisposition to gaining finger strength with people like me as outliers at one end and the lad mentioned in the first post at the other. Whether it’s to do with what age you started climbing, what your job is/ other pastimes are, how long your fingers are(!), how you climb, genetic factors or what I’ve no idea though.  :shrug:

EDIT- Hopefully that doesn’t come across as a sort of humblebrag about making up for my finger weakness with excellent technique. I’ve never climbed particularly hard grades and would probably be more successful gradewise if I was better on the fingerboard.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2019, 04:56:52 pm by cheque »

SA Chris

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#21 Re: Naturally strong?
November 26, 2019, 04:50:54 pm
I'm glad it's not just me. I went through a phase of trying to Beastmaker workouts a couple of times a week, and gains were marginal to say the least. Must mean either

1) I'm so strong that additional progress is incremental
2) I'm not predisposed to getting stronger for whatever factors as per cheque.

No prizes for guessing where the sensible money would go.

abarro81

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#22 Re: Naturally strong?
November 26, 2019, 05:02:44 pm
If i wanted to just mong heavy weights on edges i'd train Chisel way more as its the most biomechanically strong grip for deadhanging but its the most useless outdoors as it allows the least wrist movement compared to the others. I'd much rather leave a really hard testpiece with the strength i develop than an edge benchmark but its fun to see where people are at, in many ways they're the most accurate grades, absolute and BW fingerstrength ratios.

Bloody hell Dan, your numbers make me feel so obscenely weak! I get psyched when I can do 5s on the good central BM 2k edge with no added weight!

Anyway, thinking about the above, I think it's maybe less true for sport climbers (esp for onsighting) than boulderers.. I think I'm often chisel (you mean natural campus style with index open and mid 2 a bit half crimp right?) on decent edges on routes, then more engaged on cruxes (unless they're on pockets obvs). Strong in chisel defo helps avoid having to engage hard and stay less pumped on medium difficulty sections...

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#23 Re: Naturally strong?
November 26, 2019, 06:32:59 pm
Ye most people don’t need to worry about crimping 10mm in a roof Dan.  :P

carlisle slapper

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#24 Re: Naturally strong?
November 26, 2019, 08:24:43 pm
so it seems likely there's some 100kg beast in a russian backwater who's spent his life splitting logs and carrying bricks who's just waiting to pick up a 25kg plate and hang from one arm for 5 seconds from a precisely proportioned edge.

They always have to be secret russian or eastern bloc beasts don't they ;)

Top draw Roid + HGH cycling innit. just look at Denis Cyplenkov over the years (although he went pop last year)

@Barrows. decent considering i couldn't hang off a bar with one arm when i first started climbing! I'm talking about bouldering yeah or >80% effort movement. Also as you approach the upper grades outdoors holds tend to start getting marginal and weird so less and less of this weight on an edge stuff applies and things become more case by case.
Those points about routes are spot on from what i've found (with what little i've done) and when resting one is much more likely to want to effectively skyhook off a chisel or drag on a straight arm to recover. They're just a funny grip for 1RM as a bouldering inference as chisel especially is applied so sparsely on crux moves outdoors. Drag cruxes are defo more common on sandstone, grit and granite but i'd still say half crimp all fingers bent is the golden goose indicator for hard bouldering outdoors as a general blunderbuss approach to the inferences made with this type of test (mainly because it is the grip with the highest level of wrist flexibility whilst maintaining critical finger angles). Interestingly on that grip there would be incredibly few people able to hang on a 20mm edge one armed. Skin type and finger length also play crucial roles in this too, short indexers being more chisel biased than drag.

I wonder if we went to Ineos-Kipchoge levels of detail on this what could be done (ideally without the salazar side). My gut is that high 70kg-low 80kg climbers will be able to hit the highest absolute levels. an 80kg climber at 137% would get upto 110kg.
Tanner Merkle has done an impressive bar hang holding an inch dumbbell in one hand and boulders in the 8B area (also holds loads of grip records)
Sam Edwards was heavier than me and used to drag more than me but he's been retired a while now.
People like this are the main contenders as to ask people in the 60kg area to do 170% etc would be full on mutant levels, when you break down that load per finger. Where as someone at 80kg simply needs to match the power to weight of the lighter guys.

All that training and i still cant pull on shadowplay Doylo, Neither can aidan. with the G in front there are no limits, bit like chasing a spectre through walls.







 

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