[User deactivated.]

Last night I got a friend of mine on a fingerboard for the 1st time. He's late 20's, been climbing for 3-4 years and has never done any training aside from just climbing.

At around 13 stone (80+kg) body weight he 1 armed the small crimps on a beastmaker 2000 whilst holding a 10kg plate in the other hand. He then hung the 45 degree slopers with the 10kg plate between his legs for basically as long as he wanted to.

What is this wizardry? Genetics? Manual job? surely holding tools all day is endurance? I don't know whether to be inspired or give up! I strive for 1kg gains in finger strength over a month whilst only being half as strong!

[abarro81]

Presumably he boulders  8C or has no legs? Anything else doesn't compute

[lagerstarfish]

don't tell him about weight loss or footwork...

[Ru]

Isn't the lattice record for holding a lattice rung one handed (a bit bigger than the beastmaker crimp) about 90kg?

[abarro81]

Yeah, sounds like he's stronger in absolute kg than Vadim Timonov, Bosi, Betto, Megos etc

[mr chaz]

Presumably follows the same non-training plan as Ste Mac

[Fiend]

I don't know whether to be inspired or give up! I strive for 1kg gains in finger strength over a month whilst only being half as strong!

You better fucking get used to it. Climbing gets pretty hard when you look at all the skinny / overly strong cunts who are skinnier / overly stronger than you are.

[Oldmanmatt]

I don't know whether to be inspired or give up! I strive for 1kg gains in finger strength over a month whilst only being half as strong!

You better fucking get used to it. Climbing gets pretty hard when you look at all the skinny / overly strong cunts who are skinnier / overly stronger than you are.

Amen.

A-fucking-men.

[remus]

Isn't the lattice record for holding a lattice rung one handed (a bit bigger than the beastmaker crimp) about 90kg?

95kg https://www.instagram.com/p/B5GSxD8j0hX/

Worth noting it's gotta be a 5 sec hang.

[carlisle slapper]

Very Impressive for a heavy climber

Small rung on the 2000 is 14mm. Yves Gravelle can hold it with +25kg in a chisel. He's 66kg. I think thats the current record

The record for 19-20mm edge will be over 110kg i reckon if the right person hops on one, Sam Edwards would need to come out of retirement or Tanner Merkle to start fingerboarding IMO but its plenty doable, Bet Jimmy, martin stranik and Jan would post some decent numbers too as key "heavy" outliers.

I've popped a vid of me doing 101kg on my shit wrist on the 19mm drag on the 2000 on the beastmaker flickr, My left is stronger than my right as that's rehabbing an old lumbrical tear still. +138%ish but a fairly half arsed effort in the middle of a fingerboarding session. Basically how you hold the edge has massive implications to climbing, those are details i'd never overlook if i was looking to improve. I'd love to see people moving through steep ground on 10mm edges using a chisel grip, because i never have. Chisel is decent for compression at full span though.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/beastmaker/49090983531/in/dateposted/

[carlisle slapper]

Dab on that 95kg

[Fiend]

Video needed more flexing.

[teestub]

but a fairly half arsed effort in the middle of a fingerboarding session.

That overbite for power doesn’t make it look very half arsed! 

[User deactivated.]

Presumably he boulders  8C or has no legs? Anything else doesn't compute

He does the 'yellow circuit' at the depot and a handful of oranges.

don't tell him about weight loss or footwork...

Indeed, though he's buying a bloody beastmaker for christmas now!

[remus]

The record for 19-20mm edge will be over 110kg i reckon if the right person hops on one, Sam Edwards would need to come out of retirement or Tanner Merkle to start fingerboarding IMO but its plenty doable, Bet Jimmy, martin stranik and Jan would post some decent numbers too as key "heavy" outliers.

Depends quite a bit on the exact edge being used I reckon. Front/back radius have quite a big effect, as does a 'pocket' style edge vs a campus rung style edge. I'm sure we're a long way off the maximum though, climbing is very niche (relatively speaking) so it seems likely there's some 100kg beast in a russian backwater who's spent his life splitting logs and carrying bricks who's just waiting to pick up a 25kg plate and hang from one arm for 5 seconds from a precisely proportioned edge.

I've popped a vid of me doing 101kg on my shit wrist on the 19mm drag on the 2000 on the beastmaker flickr, My left is stronger than my right as that's rehabbing an old lumbrical tear still. +138%ish but a fairly half arsed effort in the middle of a fingerboarding session. Basically how you hold the edge has massive implications to climbing, those are details i'd never overlook if i was looking to improve. I'd love to see people moving through steep ground on 10mm edges using a chisel grip, because i never have. Chisel is decent for compression at full span though.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/beastmaker/49090983531/in/dateposted/

That's a strong effort any day of the week! Reckon it's far off your best?

[carlisle slapper]

All edges are different i'd agree however i'd argue the grip type has far far more variation than relatively similar edges of the same depth. My breakdown (PBs) is roughly 138% (drag) to 122% (half crimp pinky straight) 95% (half crimp all fingers bent) so to not differentiate between edges but say any old grip is fine is a funny approach from where im stood. The Lattice rung suits a drag or chisel thanks to its rounded chamfer so that Austrian chap is missing a trick on his half crimp but he makes up for it by stopping his rotation with a weighted leg on the frame. pockets only have a benefit if you get friction off both sides. With temp. humidity woodtype etc the level of extraneous variables on these things is still pub science amateur punting at the moment.

I could do more on the drag for sure, i was stronger on it in 2015 pre kids and hospital visits (full sets of +16kg on both sides as part of a session) but never did a 1RM then.

My goal has always been to translate the fingerboard strength to outdoors so at the moment i'm trying to build back up on the small crimps at max as they still aggrevate the back of my carpal band which got torn to bits. That's my biggest weakness at the moment. The crux of my problem at christianbury was fairly limit on my drag and pocket strength so thats the main reason its so good right now. Now that's done though, my next unfinished stuff is back on the ming. If i wanted to just mong heavy weights on edges i'd train Chisel way more as its the most biomechanically strong grip for deadhanging but its the most useless outdoors as it allows the least wrist movement compared to the others. I'd much rather leave a really hard testpiece with the strength i develop than an edge benchmark but its fun to see where people are at, in many ways they're the most accurate grades, absolute and BW fingerstrength ratios.

 grip strength for rock climbers should reflect their goals, be it allround or big numbers on volcanics or big numbers in font. You'd want to train very differently for those goals from the fingers backwards. Ideally you'd prioritise them by bodytype. Font is a very unfriendly place for midgets no matter what your fingerstrength is.

[Bradders]

Indeed, though he's buying a bloody beastmaker for christmas now!

I mean, this is literally the last thing he needs to do to improve with those numbers.

All about working on your own weaknesses init, don't compare yourself to others.

[User deactivated.]

Indeed, though he's buying a bloody beastmaker for christmas now!

I mean, this is literally the last thing he needs to do to improve with those numbers.

All about working on your own weaknesses init, don't compare yourself to others.

Personally i'm looking forward to his campus grade been equal to that using all limbs

[Fiend]

so it seems likely there's some 100kg beast in a russian backwater who's spent his life splitting logs and carrying bricks who's just waiting to pick up a 25kg plate and hang from one arm for 5 seconds from a precisely proportioned edge.

They always have to be secret russian or eastern bloc beasts don't they

[SA Chris]

Very Impressive for a heavy climber

You calling me fat?

[cheque]

I weigh ~60kg and can’t imagine being able to hang off anything but 20mm edges with added weight. I can’t hang off most holds on my BM1000 for more than a few seconds without added weight and can only hang off jugs one-handed. I kneel on mechanical scales when I fingerboard and use that to gauge my glacial progress towards unassisted hangs. The figures people (as in the average UKB user, not just 8B wads) post on here are amazing to me.

There must be a range of predisposition to gaining finger strength with people like me as outliers at one end and the lad mentioned in the first post at the other. Whether it’s to do with what age you started climbing, what your job is/ other pastimes are, how long your fingers are(!), how you climb, genetic factors or what I’ve no idea though. 

EDIT- Hopefully that doesn’t come across as a sort of humblebrag about making up for my finger weakness with excellent technique. I’ve never climbed particularly hard grades and would probably be more successful gradewise if I was better on the fingerboard.

[SA Chris]

I'm glad it's not just me. I went through a phase of trying to Beastmaker workouts a couple of times a week, and gains were marginal to say the least. Must mean either

1) I'm so strong that additional progress is incremental
2) I'm not predisposed to getting stronger for whatever factors as per cheque.

No prizes for guessing where the sensible money would go.

[abarro81]

If i wanted to just mong heavy weights on edges i'd train Chisel way more as its the most biomechanically strong grip for deadhanging but its the most useless outdoors as it allows the least wrist movement compared to the others. I'd much rather leave a really hard testpiece with the strength i develop than an edge benchmark but its fun to see where people are at, in many ways they're the most accurate grades, absolute and BW fingerstrength ratios.

Bloody hell Dan, your numbers make me feel so obscenely weak! I get psyched when I can do 5s on the good central BM 2k edge with no added weight!

Anyway, thinking about the above, I think it's maybe less true for sport climbers (esp for onsighting) than boulderers.. I think I'm often chisel (you mean natural campus style with index open and mid 2 a bit half crimp right?) on decent edges on routes, then more engaged on cruxes (unless they're on pockets obvs). Strong in chisel defo helps avoid having to engage hard and stay less pumped on medium difficulty sections...

[Doylo]

Ye most people don’t need to worry about crimping 10mm in a roof Dan. 

[carlisle slapper]

so it seems likely there's some 100kg beast in a russian backwater who's spent his life splitting logs and carrying bricks who's just waiting to pick up a 25kg plate and hang from one arm for 5 seconds from a precisely proportioned edge.

They always have to be secret russian or eastern bloc beasts don't they

Top draw Roid + HGH cycling innit. just look at Denis Cyplenkov over the years (although he went pop last year)

@Barrows. decent considering i couldn't hang off a bar with one arm when i first started climbing! I'm talking about bouldering yeah or >80% effort movement. Also as you approach the upper grades outdoors holds tend to start getting marginal and weird so less and less of this weight on an edge stuff applies and things become more case by case.
Those points about routes are spot on from what i've found (with what little i've done) and when resting one is much more likely to want to effectively skyhook off a chisel or drag on a straight arm to recover. They're just a funny grip for 1RM as a bouldering inference as chisel especially is applied so sparsely on crux moves outdoors. Drag cruxes are defo more common on sandstone, grit and granite but i'd still say half crimp all fingers bent is the golden goose indicator for hard bouldering outdoors as a general blunderbuss approach to the inferences made with this type of test (mainly because it is the grip with the highest level of wrist flexibility whilst maintaining critical finger angles). Interestingly on that grip there would be incredibly few people able to hang on a 20mm edge one armed. Skin type and finger length also play crucial roles in this too, short indexers being more chisel biased than drag.

I wonder if we went to Ineos-Kipchoge levels of detail on this what could be done (ideally without the salazar side). My gut is that high 70kg-low 80kg climbers will be able to hit the highest absolute levels. an 80kg climber at 137% would get upto 110kg.
Tanner Merkle has done an impressive bar hang holding an inch dumbbell in one hand and boulders in the 8B area (also holds loads of grip records)
Sam Edwards was heavier than me and used to drag more than me but he's been retired a while now.
People like this are the main contenders as to ask people in the 60kg area to do 170% etc would be full on mutant levels, when you break down that load per finger. Where as someone at 80kg simply needs to match the power to weight of the lighter guys.

All that training and i still cant pull on shadowplay Doylo, Neither can aidan. with the G in front there are no limits, bit like chasing a spectre through walls.

[Yossarian]

I always thought the previous Lattice record of 85kg was down to the fact that there are so many strong but lightweight blokes on their books who, even with substantial added weight are still below 80kg.

Last time I brought it up Jwi mentioned his 8b+ mate who weighs 100kg which I, as a relatively scrawny 88kg, found pretty inspiring. Love these tales of hefty beasts...

[Nigel]

Gaskins is the Barry Bonds of british bouldering. Needs an asterisk next to all of his FAs. 

Yes, they should.

And at the bottom of the page there should be another asterisk, followed by the phrase "look upon my works ye mighty, and despair!".

Love the G

[remus]

I always thought the previous Lattice record of 85kg was down to the fact that there are so many strong but lightweight blokes on their books who, even with substantial added weight are still below 80kg.

Pretty much. Once you get above ~75kg the number of climbers ticking big numbers (i.e. 9a, V14) thins out a lot. Even the big guys aren't really that heavy e.g. Jan Hojer is ~78kg.

[wasbeen]

...decent considering i couldn't hang off a bar with one arm when i first started climbing!

... that's heartening to hear. Since then have you made steady year-on-year improvements or were the big gains mainly in the first year or so?

[dunnyg]

Slightly off topic, but I had a play on one of those beastmaker 6 mm edges last night, I couldn't hang it in the slightest.
I can hold the 8 mm for 10, even with a few extra kg (random weight belt I found at the wall), I have no idea how you get your fingers strong enough to start pulling on them!

[Fiend]

I've done one a couple times, for between 1 and 1¼ seconds Main issue seems to be finger pulp crushing and them being slightly rounded.

[moose]

I think its a matter of practice improving your pain tolerance.  I'm not strong by any definition but can hang then (2-handed of course) - but I have had practice hanging the small holds on a slippy resin Transgression board (my warm up when in peak form used to finish with 10s hangs on the Transgression 7 and 6 mm edges, sometimes with 2.5 to 5kg added). 

That said, after years of climbing, I cannot / can barely hang one-armed from a bar (manage a few seconds then have to drop as I feel my shoulder will tear from its socket).

[Will Hunt]

Going back to the OP, can we have this Beastmaker's calibration checked for depth of hold and verticality of installation? We don't want to end up with another "dunnyg does 1-4-7" or "Footwork does rep after rep of 45 slopers pull ups" scenario.

[AMorris]

Slightly off topic, but I had a play on one of those beastmaker 6 mm edges last night, I couldn't hang it in the slightest.
I can hold the 8 mm for 10, even with a few extra kg (random weight belt I found at the wall), I have no idea how you get your fingers strong enough to start pulling on them!

I finally put my 6mm's up the other day after having them for a good 2 years, and found them hard. I could just about squeeze 8 or 9 seconds out on my first good hang, but after that my skin starts to deteriorate quickly and I lose about a second every hang after (even with skin trimming  ). I finally had a look from side on the other day, and because my beam is slightly concave, and having put them on the bottom, they are actually 8-9 degrees sloping no wonder they feel brutal (not intended as a humblebrag).

All that training and i still cant pull on shadowplay Doylo, Neither can aidan. with the G in front there are no limits, bit like chasing a spectre through walls.

This makes me wonder what Blackpool Sam could pull, since he has (a few years back anyway) pulled off the deck on Shadowplay, and even did a move AFAIK. Big lad too, possible record contender? Don't know how much he is climbing nowdays though.

[Nibile]

I believe you meant convex, otherwise the bottom of your concave would be 8-9 degrees incut.

[AMorris]

I believe you meant convex, otherwise the bottom of your concave would be 8-9 degrees incut.

right you are! Concave would have pleased me a little more I think

[dunnyg]

We don't want to end up with another "dunnyg does 1-4-7" or "Footwork does rep after rep of 45 slopers pull ups" scenario.

I still havent taken a tape measure to the lab and they didn't respond to my email...

I didn't have any problems with pain, it was just physically couldn't hold them. I am a chubber to be fair, but still, I expected a good second or so!

. I could just about squeeze 8 or 9 seconds out on my first good hang,

I can't imagine doing this. Were you open handing/chiselling etc.?

Maybe my fingers are just relatively weak and it has been my flawless technique that has seen me so far in my bouldering. ...

[AMorris]

I can't imagine doing this. Were you open handing/chiselling etc.?

Maybe my fingers are just relatively weak and it has been my flawless technique that has seen me so far in my bouldering. ...

I have to engage my thumb on the side, or full crimp a bit (both feel about the same) to hold the very slight swing out pulling on as a result of the slope on them. This something I hope to iron out over time, as it's not ideal! Plenty of room for improvement in that regard.

[36chambers]

I can't imagine doing this. Were you open handing/chiselling etc.?

no matter how I initiate the hang on the 6's, my fingers always end up boned af (thumbs well clear of anything). Although I prefer open handing stuff, I don't think I could get any real purchase doing it on the 6's. Could be a pulp thing.

[Fiend]

I have to engage my thumb on the side,

[tomtom]

Going back to the OP, can we have this Beastmaker's calibration checked for depth of hold and verticality of installation? We don't want to end up with another "dunnyg does 1-4-7" or "Footwork does rep after rep of 45 slopers pull ups" scenario.

** captain downgrade alert **

:D

[James Malloch]

We don't want to end up with another "dunnyg does 1-4-7" or "Footwork does rep after rep of 45 slopers pull ups" scenario.

I still havent taken a tape measure to the lab and they didn't respond to my email...

I’m heading there now. Will report back 

[Will Hunt]

 

[dunnyg]

Like waiting for an STI test this.The tension!

[James Malloch]

Like waiting for an STI test this.The tension!

Spacing was between 21cm and 21.5cm, so less than standard... it was somewhere in the middle but hard to be exact.

[James Malloch]

Spacing was between 21cm and 21.5cm, so less than standard... it was somewhere in the middle but hard to be exact.

Both me and my idol cut down in a thread. The truth hurts.

Interesting to hear that all the G stuff set out so clearly though.

dunnyg logs practically everything as a flash, dunnyg also idolises the G. It's all making sense now.

Not sure what the standard sizes are too but I think the Lab rungs are pretty big - they use the Metolious Wood Grips.

Large = 32mm
Medium = 25mm (though they have these on upside down so less incut? 
Small = 19mm

Moon rungs on the other hand are:

Large = 29mm
Medium = 23mm
Small = 18mm

The circuit board there is a pile of shit too - my knees were pretty much touching my face yesterday, it is so bunched up. I generally hate the upstairs of the lab (sorry to the owners) - It’s a decent space and could have been so much better...

Don’t get me started on people not knowing what a brush is there either. Anyway, I digress from talking about strong people.

[gme]

I know nothing about these problems and have not even seen them, but i climbed a lot with the strongest climbers in the UK at the time (Malc, Ben etc.) and saw John climb a fair bit outside, at the school and other Sheffield boards and he was undoubtedly very strong, probably as strong or a bit stronger than Malc on small holds. He also came over as a nice quiet honest lad which is why i have always sided with him if discussed.

However based on what i have seen at the school, and read about in the media, the new crop of lads are in a different league of strength, and i mean a different league. If they really have been and tried these things and cant do the moves the problems have either changed or didn't exist in the first place.

[peewee]

Went there on Saturday, definitely felt like baby spacing.

We don't want to end up with another "dunnyg does 1-4-7" or "Footwork does rep after rep of 45 slopers pull ups" scenario.

I still havent taken a tape measure to the lab and they didn't respond to my email...

I’m heading there now. Will report back 

[dunnyg]

I didnt mind the circuit board at the lab. Generally set a bit cruxy, but dimensions were ok for me.
It is a shame the campus board is nonstandard though. Maybe its time to come to terms with being naturally a punter

[Oldmanmatt]

Spacing was between 21cm and 21.5cm, so less than standard... it was somewhere in the middle but hard to be exact.

Both me and my idol cut down in a thread. The truth hurts.

Interesting to hear that all the G stuff set out so clearly though.

dunnyg logs practically everything as a flash, dunnyg also idolises the G. It's all making sense now.

Not sure what the standard sizes are too but I think the Lab rungs are pretty big - they use the Metolious Wood Grips.

Large = 32mm
Medium = 25mm (though they have these on upside down so less incut? 
Small = 19mm

Moon rungs on the other hand are:

Large = 29mm
Medium = 23mm
Small = 18mm

The circuit board there is a pile of shit too - my knees were pretty much touching my face yesterday, it is so bunched up. I generally hate the upstairs of the lab (sorry to the owners) - It’s a decent space and could have been so much better...

Don’t get me started on people not knowing what a brush is there either. Anyway, I digress from talking about strong people.

OT

I’d have to go digging for the paperwork, but the Metolious instructions/standard are 200mm spacing to the School room 220. So as you travel around the world, you need check if it’s a Metolious board or a “Moon” board.
Most UK boards are School room standard, I guess. I’ve built a few (well, four).
Anyone know the story behind the difference?

If I guess,I’m sure Ben will be along to slap me down..

I reckon, when they put up the Schoolroom board, they made a 200mm spacer. They put up the lowest rung and then rested the next rung on the spacer to fix it, instead of drawing a line and putting the top edge of the next rung on the line.
And thus, a new standard was born.

Possibly the rest of the world knows why they’re different and I’ve missed something.

Edit:
I’d forgotten Metolius use different spacing for different sized rungs:

[Nutty]

Arguably, spacing should be 23.5cm between rung top edges for first and second rung and 20cm for the rest:https://rockclimberstrainingmanual.com/2015/01/14/the-original-campus-board/

[gme]

(I reckon, when they put up the Schoolroom board, they made a 200mm spacer. They put up the lowest rung and then rested the next rung on the spacer to fix it, instead of drawing a line and putting the top edge of the next rung on the line.
And thus, a new standard was born.)

The schools campus board was originally built in bens backyard and lived there for a year or so before the school was built. Back then we really were not that bothered with all the standardisation that people want so we just built it to some rough dimensions Ben had. We were not trying to exactly replicate the original.
The level of "thought" that went into these things and the school boards was pretty minimal.

And i still cant use the quote function on this site properly

[Oldmanmatt]

(I reckon, when they put up the Schoolroom board, they made a 200mm spacer. They put up the lowest rung and then rested the next rung on the spacer to fix it, instead of drawing a line and putting the top edge of the next rung on the line.
And thus, a new standard was born.)

The schools campus board was originally built in bens backyard and lived there for a year or so before the school was built. Back then we really were not that bothered with all the standardisation that people want so we just built it to some rough dimensions Ben had. We were not trying to exactly replicate the original.
The level of "thought" that went into these things and the school boards was pretty minimal.

And i still cant use the quote function on this site properly

Yup, makes sense.

My first was a rip off from Steph Davies (Davis? Not sure without googling), backyard jobby, that she’d written an article about.

That would be 25 years ago, at least.

I was mesmerised by that vid of Bachar training on the caving ladder at the time and convinced it would make me awesome.
Then read about Campusing.

Neither worked.
Never made it to Awesome town.