[Will Hunt]

I can't really think what thread this fits into. I have recently been enthralled by the diary of Samuel Pepys, which is being tweeted in "real time" on the profile @samuelpepys
It's bloody great. We're currently on 1666. He's either down the brothel, shagging his mates' wives/the servant girls/anyone he can get his grubby hands on, or bemoaning the lack of money his department in the navy has. In the last month or so he's witnessed a dog being given a blood transfusion (the donor fell down dead of course, the recipient is still alive a few days later!), been disappointed that his usual lay at The Swan has married a shoemaker, been to a party with the king and queen, and occasionally gets his gold and plate out of the cellar to check up on it.

Absolutely fascinating and highly recommended.

[Oldmanmatt]

Sorry, is this Samuel Pepys or Boris Johnson’s diary?

[moose]

I can't really think what thread this fits into. I have recently been enthralled by the diary of Samuel Pepys, which is being tweeted in "real time" on the profile @samuelpepys
It's bloody great. We're currently on 1666. He's either down the brothel, shagging his mates' wives/the servant girls/anyone he can get his grubby hands on, or bemoaning the lack of money his department in the navy has. In the last month or so he's witnessed a dog being given a blood transfusion (the donor fell down dead of course, the recipient is still alive a few days later!), been disappointed that his usual lay at The Swan has married a shoemaker, been to a party with the king and queen, and occasionally gets his gold and plate out of the cellar to check up on it.
Absolutely fascinating and highly recommended.

Great Fire of London soon then? and the famous cheese! If you want to learn more, I highly recommend Claire Tomalin's biography The Unequalled Self.  Though the biggest surprises I've read about him have been in books on naval history (I have a weakness for seafaring tales and history); despite all the carousing he was a very able admistrator at the Navy Board - contributed to the modernisation that made it a major source of UK power in later years.

[Will Hunt]

I think we've already had the fire. I need to go back and read it, and might make a point of starting right back at the beginning on January 1st 2020/1660.

You can see the anxiety it's caused in his writing. I think his father might have lost his house? Something interesting was that a court ruled that costs would be borne by landlords where the fire had spread naturally to the district, or not if the fire had been set by arson. I think that's why he keeps getting his money and plate out of the cellar. He can't keep from checking on it. This is 30 years before the Bank of England is formed and his entire personal wealth is holed up in the cellar. If its stolen or lost in fire then that's it: he's ruined. Obvious, I suppose, but the personal nature of the writing brings it home (much like Peter Jackson's WW1 documentary brought the history to life).

[Will Hunt]

Reporting of the fire starts with this incredibly vivid entry from 2nd September 1666:
https://www.pepysdiary.com/diary/1666/09/02/

[duncan]

It's bloody great. We're currently on 1666. He's either down the brothel, shagging his mates' wives/the servant girls/anyone he can get his grubby hands on, or bemoaning the lack of money his department in the navy has. In the last month or so he's witnessed a dog being given a blood transfusion (the donor fell down dead of course, the recipient is still alive a few days later!), been disappointed that his usual lay at The Swan has married a shoemaker, been to a party with the king and queen, and occasionally gets his gold and plate out of the cellar to check up on it.

Also been following this for all the reasons above. Twitter has all the naughty bits, https://www.pepysdiary.com/ is sometimes bowlderised but has useful annotations for those of us who are not 17th century historians.

Sorry, is this Samuel Pepys or Boris Johnson’s diary?

Alan Clark's?

Great Fire of London soon then? and the famous cheese!

Here!

[Will Hunt]

I had a sneak peek ahead to the 2nd December. To say there is a naughty bit would be putting it mildly.

The website version has occasional bits missed out but the comments section normally fills in the blanks.

[Will Hunt]

And lo, it did come to pass on this day in the year of our Lord 1666, that young Sam did encourage his mate's wife to wank him off, while sat in the same dark carriage as his wife and the husband of said tugger.

Betty Michell did sit at the same end with me, and there con su mano [with her hand] under my manteau, I did pull off her cheirotheca [glove] and did tocar mi cosa con su mano [touch my thing with her hand] through my chemise, but yet so as to hazer me hazer la grande cosa [make me do the big thing] – and she did let me hazerle sin mucho trabaho. [do it with little effort]

[Will Hunt]

No idea if this is of any interest to anyone.

Today, cometh Mrs Clerk of Greenwich (who provided accommodation to Pepys outside the city during the plague). She brings her daughter, whose husband wants a position commanding a pleasure boat that is being built. Mother waits outside while Pepys kisses her and gropes her breasts until he ejaculates.

So far, so Weinstein. But isn't it bleedin' awful that the mother makes the introduction, and knows full well what will take place (she doesn't think to bring her son in law who will actually take the position)?
I wonder how the poor girl felt? Was this par for the course? Was Pepys just known for it or could this have happened with any man of rank? Did the man know how he got his job?

[andy popp]

Yes, it interests me. Undoubtedly, all very Weinstein. No idea about the answers to your questions though.

[seankenny]

I also enjoy these snippets very much.

No idea how common this kind of behaviour was. How ingrained were the Puritan attitudes to sex and how much were things changing by this time? I have no idea.

Based on the carriage wanking experience (and having read the biography) my guess is Pepys was quite a chancer and that other men were not so bold. Remember it was Pepys who told the King that his capital was burning down...

[andy popp]

The diary begins in 1660, the year the monarchy was restored - the so-called Restoration is generally seen as much more relaxed than the preceding years.

But the reality is that despite what we tend to think of as the stricter, more religious morals of the past people have always had lots of sex of all different kinds. The C19th is seen as particularly prudish but pre-marital sex between young people was far from uncommon. I'm currently working on a paper which focuses on an event in 1823, in which the daughter of highly religious parents was jilted at the altar. She was pregnant. The family were shopkeepers and well known in Colne and Rochdale. These so-called middling sort were often in socially precarious positions and deeply concerned about respectability. But they stood by their daughter and, indeed, the whole town turned against the man involved. His business failed and within a year he was found dead in a canal having recently signed over all his assets to his brother. Men could be sued for seduction or breach of promise and the sympathy was almost always with the women. Basically, Larkin's claim that sex was invented in 1963 is historical hogwash.

That said, I doubt Pepys was anything close to the norm, even for powerful and privileged men.

[Will Hunt]

Poor Sam. Probable PTSD from the Fire some 6 months on.
https://twitter.com/samuelpepys/status/1242705350891053056?s=19


And on a completely different note, hanger gets the better of him.
https://twitter.com/samuelpepys/status/1241699392199036935?s=19

[RobertHowden]

I got an abridged edition of it the other Christmas. Sadly comes without comments to fill in the confusing bits so I think that I missed quite a lot of nuance. There were a couple of passages that stuck with me. There's a bit when he wears a stick on beauty spot for the first time and worries about whether he can pull the look off. Also the bit at the end when his eye start is starting to fail so he realises he will have to stop writing the diary soon. Very poignant when you have come to know him.

[Will Hunt]

Praise be to God for small mercies.

That whore my Lady Byron, who had been, as Mr. Evelyn called it, the King’s seventeenth whore abroad, did not leave him till she had got him to give her an order for 4000l. [£] worth of plate to be made for her; but by delays, thanks be to God! she died before she had it.

Nobody buries the lede like Sam.

[Will Hunt]

For those who love a 17th century real-life soap opera, I'd strongly recommend reading from the 25th October 1668 to about a month after.

Backstory: since Betty Mitchell had a baby Pepys has lost interest in her but has been infatuated with his wife's live-in companion (a paid position). His affair with Deb Willet has been going on for some time when:
"To have my head combed by Deb., which occasioned the greatest sorrow to me that ever I knew in this world, for my wife, coming up suddenly, did find me embracing the girl con my hand sub su coats; and endeed, I was with my main her cunny."


What ensues is an absolute roller coaster. Elizabeth won't let him out of her sight, scribbled notes passed between him and Deb, Sam and Elizabeth up at all hours screaming and crying at one another, Elizabeth in a state of distress at one time admits that she is a Catholic, also that she herself has been propositioned many times but remained faithful, Deb is sent away (Sam knows not where), he tracks her down and there is a fumble in his coach, he admits all to Elizabeth, he is compelled to be accompanied wherever he goes, and - most oddly - Sam and Elizabeth have more sex than they'd had in the past year.

And all of this while the painters and upholsterers are in. It's been emotional.

[andy popp]

See, history is fun!

Great stuff.