[Bonjoy]

You are one of those people who I can now identify by the way you write, regardless of username. Half of me enjoys your posts and the other half feels like he is reading excerpts from a Jaden Smith essay, if somewhat more eloquent

It's all a bit woke for me, but 

I just googled Jaden Smith.  .
As an actual miserable old man in real life I'll take that as a hilarious compliment. I do object to being called 'woke' thought.

[Bonjoy]

After everyone Sloper must have agitated with his caustic put-downs, I did think it a bit odd for him to flounce off at that - clearly unmalicious despite the nasty meaning of the word - ‘get with the pogrom’ comment.

Sloper is Jewish, I believe (someone correct me if I'm wrong), so some sensitivity over this remark is unsurprising.

You're correct, I didn't realise when I used the term ( which I understood to be sometimes used to refer to  witch hunts more generally). But as it went on it seemed to me like posturing on his part and I'm not hugely sympathetic to that sort of special pleading. Sadly I had to shelve my bid for the Labour leadership shortly after.

[andy popp]

After everyone Sloper must have agitated with his caustic put-downs, I did think it a bit odd for him to flounce off at that - clearly unmalicious despite the nasty meaning of the word - ‘get with the pogrom’ comment.

Sloper is Jewish, I believe (someone correct me if I'm wrong), so some sensitivity over this remark is unsurprising.

You're correct, I didn't realise when I used the term ( which I understood to be sometimes used to refer to  witch hunts more generally). But as it went on it seemed to me like posturing on his part and I'm not hugely sympathetic to that sort of special pleading. Sadly I had to shelve my bid for the Labour leadership shortly after.

No doubt. Not a dig at you at all (I don't remember the original spat); just some context for some who may be coming to all this without relevant background information.

[Mr E S Capegoat]

You are one of those people who I can now identify by the way you write, regardless of username. Half of me enjoys your posts and the other half feels like he is reading excerpts from a Jaden Smith essay, if somewhat more eloquent

It's all a bit woke for me, but 

I just googled Jaden Smith.  .
As an actual miserable old man in real life I'll take that as a hilarious compliment. I do object to being called 'woke' thought.

Hang on a bloody minuscule
He was talking about me you bloody egomaniac. 🤣
Wasn’t he? Or was he? Or are Wee We?
As Jaden might pontificate

[mrjonathanr]

You're correct, I didn't realise when I used the term ( which I understood to be sometimes used to refer to  witch hunts more generally).

Bit stronger than that- pogrom is inherently genocidal.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pogrom

[Bonjoy]

The group being attacked isn't exclusively Jewish. It was an idle rhetorical device, used among friends.
Intention matters and the context and following discussion made the intention clear I thought.

[Mr E S Capegoat]

I’m sure this is all a distraction from the real issue here which is the generation of increased positivity in the community through authentic mutual celebration and genuine interactions on Instagram. Particularly amongst our elite athletes. Jon has just picked a particularly emotive example to point out why he doesn’t post from the heart anymore, or at least would be very cautious of being anything but accurate and right. The repression inherent in the culture, see ukc’s opinion pieces for that drivel.
Highlighting genuine human mistakes with language in this way when there is clearly no intent to harm, does seem to be a good reason not to post at all. Unless it’s positive psyche on Power Klubb of course

[mrjonathanr]

I wasn’t having a pop at you Bonjoy, just saying the word has some force.

As for Sloper, I enjoyed debating with him, but we did lock horns. I vaguely recall the flouncing off, didn’t see the justification for it really. Thought it had something to do with Slackline too? Tom gave as good as he got, hardly a shrinking violet.
I wouldn’t lose sleep over it tbh

[mrjonathanr]

Highlighting genuine human mistakes with language in this way when there is clearly no intent to harm, does seem to be a good reason not to post at all.

I quite agree, and forbearance is a core virtue. Unless the poster has made a spelling mistake, in which case they should be cast into the 10th circle of hell.

Dante quite rightly considered poor grammar even more damnable than treachery: https://historylists.org/art/9-circles-of-hell-dantes-inferno.html

[Mr E S Capegoat]

didn’t Dante write the first energy systems protocol?

[mrjonathanr]

First 9 I believe. Allegedly he did the first, fourth and ninth first.

That would be some people's idea of hell I think.

[teestub]

Midway upon the journey of ancap
  I found myself lost within a circuit board,
  For the straightforward pathway had been lost.

Ah me! how hard a thing it is to say
  What was this circuit savage, rough, and stern,
  Which in the very thought renews the fear.

So pumpy is it, death is little more;
  But of the good to treat, which there I found,
  Speak will I of the other things I saw there.

I cannot well repeat how there I entered,
  So full was I of pump at the moment
  In which I had abandoned the true way.

[Mr E S Capegoat]

Dante isn’t far of the mark for me. The lettuce energy regime is one of the most systematically depressing things I’ve done and actually a moderate source of shame. It completely ‘abstracts’ the human being / self by entirely quantifying them in terms of numerical gains. It ‘owns’ your climbing in exchange for money. You consume the idea of yourself as a ‘better’ climber. Ultimately alienating and depressing.

[dunnyg]

FrEe YOurSeLF FrOm thE LettuCE oVERLorDS

[Mr E S Capegoat]

It’s ImpoSsiBle

[Fiend]

Hang on a sec, twatfeatures.

Those numerical gains are an indication of being stronger, more powerful, having more endurance etc.

You can then use that strength / power / endurance to do more more inspiring, enthralling, challenging, and interesting climbing outside, in good company, in beautiful locations, on aesthetic rock.

"I did 4 weeks Lattice bullshit, now I feel more ready to go and try problem X at crag Y, which before I'd had a look at the start and knew I wasn't strong enough" - what's the problem with that??

[Fiend]

Sigh.

Why am I bothering.

 

[abarro81]

Who knows.. Dan makes me look open minded.

[Mr E S Capegoat]

Sigh.

Why am I bothering.

 

That’s what’s sold to you Matt, but I can confirm one has little or nothing to do with the other. L does not equal X or Y

[Will Hunt]

I think the point is that you can't win, Fiend. UFCK regards everyone with equal disdain.

[abarro81]

I can confirm that in my experience, one has little or nothing to do with the other. L does not equal X or Y. Although I appreciate that others may be different, and that a significant number of the better climbers in the country/world/universe would disagree with me on this one. I just don't really like training and didn't see the GAINZ I'd hoped for

Fixed for you

[fatneck]

Back to that Dan Varian article, he has always come across a smug twat to me. Very much "I am better than all you cunts, especially Ben and Jerry, what the fuck did they ever do for British climbing?" but it could just be me (and Dan obvs...)

[Mr E S Capegoat]

I can confirm that in my experience, one has little or nothing to do with the other. L does not equal X or Y. Although I appreciate that others may be different, and that a significant number of the better climbers in the country/world/universe would disagree with me on this one. I just don't really like training and didn't see the GAINZ I'd hoped for

Fixed for you

This is true of course. I’m definitely not hiding the fact and totally agree with what you’re saying. I’m making a different point. I’m saying it’s an alienating experience. Not just the energy systems thing but the whole shebang. It’s a capitalist construct in sport. Sure of course it might ‘work’ for some and not for others and of course training is good to bump your grade etc etc.... but it’s like a religion, it owns you in that way. I was pretty open when I started the training about two things 1. That I was really gonna try my best so fully immerse in it and 2. It was deeply incongruous with me as a person. As I’ve seen this evolve and spoken to others I thought I’d express that. I’m not bitter it didn’t work, I climb much ‘better’ without it whatever that means. There is a sense of shame that I didn’t trust my gut instinct with it and ploughed on regardless. And without that experience I think I’d not be able to understand exactly what it was all about. The whole experience of the concept of progression. Tom’s a genuinely great guy and believes strongly in what he’s selling, doesn’t mean in like the product. A counterpoint is always useful. Is ukb really den of climbing capitalists with no one other than me questioning all this. Can’t believe that.

[dunnyg]

I guess many on UKB are driven by performance. Wether peformance is a capitalist construct, is probably opinion at the end of the day?

[teestub]

It’s a capitalist construct in sport.

Hasn’t sport been about performance since before capitalism was a thing?

Your argument always seems to be for one or the other not both. I think that people can have similar experiences to what I assume you desire out of climbing and pursue performance.