[mrjonathanr]

Given that the Cons are committed to “getting Brexit done” and in a pretty hard manner, at that; does Farage’s decision to fight every seat and set himself in opposition to the Cons, strike anyone else as a deliberate attempt to derail Brexit?
It certainly doesn’t seem like the way to “get it done” to me.

He’s a canny operator though and I’m sure he’s got a plan to make as much personal gain as humanly possible from this.

No, but it may be the way to scare the Torres into electoral pacts about which party contests which seats, and so for him to get what he craves: a seat in parliament.

[teestub]

I like how the current Brexit deal, a hard Brexit by any measure is now ‘Brexit in name only’ for Farage. Goalposts of all sorts seem to shift constantly at the moment!

[SA Chris]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/31/trump-says-johnson-and-farage-could-form-unstoppable-force

Sorely Trump's endorsement is reason enough to avoid like the plague?

[tomtom]

I like how the current Brexit deal, a hard Brexit by any measure is now ‘Brexit in name only’ for Farage. Goalposts of all sorts seem to shift constantly at the moment!

Amazing to see now Farage has come out. He was obvs biding his time.

Torys over a small barrel with this. Join him and he’ll alienate a load of moderate torys- otherwise the Brexit party will split the Tory vote in those seats where they want to scoop up the labour leavers.

[TobyD]

Amazing to see now Farage has come out. He was obvs biding his time.

  Now this would be news. Perhaps if he fails to get a seat he could apply for a place on Queer Eye.

[TobyD]

My guess is there will end up being some informal non aggression pact between Farage and the Conservative party so that Johnson can claim it's not a deal.

[tomtom]

My guess is there will end up being some informal non aggression pact between Farage and the Conservative party so that Johnson can claim it's not a deal.

Hmm not so sure. I think Farages only leverage with voters is to be mr hard brexit... not harder core Tory.

[TobyD]

My guess is there will end up being some informal non aggression pact between Farage and the Conservative party so that Johnson can claim it's not a deal.

Hmm not so sure. I think Farages only leverage with voters is to be mr hard brexit... not harder core Tory.

With his moral conviction, he'd probably do a deal with Corbyn or the Monster Raving Loony Party if he thought he'd get a seat in parliament

[Oldmanmatt]

My guess is there will end up being some informal non aggression pact between Farage and the Conservative party so that Johnson can claim it's not a deal.

Hmm not so sure. I think Farages only leverage with voters is to be mr hard brexit... not harder core Tory.

With his moral conviction, he'd probably do a deal with Corbyn or the Monster Raving Loony Party if he thought he'd get a seat in parliament

I thought he was the Monster Raving Loony Party?

[danm]

The cynic in me thinks it may be possible that the last thing good old Nigel wants is a hard Brexit engineered by others, because it will instantly remove his sole reason for existing in the public consciousness, and will dry up his funding from his shadowy hard right backers. If he can draw this out by making sure that either Brexit never happens, or ends up being some softish Brexit which he can rail against, he can continue to dine out until he pops his merry little clogs.

Let's face it, anyone with half a brain, even if ideologically for Brexit, would be mad to actually want to be in charge when the full economic repercussions are felt by "Workington Man".

[tomtom]

Amazing to see now Farage has come out. He was obvs biding his time.

  Now this would be news. Perhaps if he fails to get a seat he could apply for a place on Queer Eye.

I really couldn’t care less about his sexuality - but - it would be funny if it turned out he was not born in the Uk...

[TobyD]

Amazing to see now Farage has come out. He was obvs biding his time.

  Now this would be news. Perhaps if he fails to get a seat he could apply for a place on Queer Eye.

I really couldn’t care less about his sexuality - but - it would be funny if it turned out he was not born in the Uk...

Or perhaps that he'd converted to Islam in a bizarre mash up of Homeland and ranting toff pretending to be a man of the people. Or, still better, all of the above at once. The strange thing is, that the news cycle has become so fast moving and bizarre that it would probably be instantly eclipsed by Trump doing something really special.

[Offwidth]

Dirty tricks starting already:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/01/tories-accused-of-using-public-funds-for-ads-on-facebook-in-key-seats

[Oldmanmatt]

Over the last few days, I have seen so many anti-Corbyn memes. Almost every Veteran I know, has decided he’s tainted and flat refuse to support him or his party.
The number of times I’ve seen them share the picture of him with IRA members, shared by otherwise intelligent friends, is mind boggling.
These aren’t Britain First supporting, former grunts, these are all former mid-ranking officers or Senior rates, all now senior Engineers and managers. He’s absolutely hated and viewed as a traitor.

It really doesn’t matter if that’s true or not and I’m not saying it is. His past is way too checkered and he has provided far too many photo ops as ammunition for the rightwing propagandists.

A bit like Trump shooting people on 5th Avenue, Corbyn could singlehandedly  rescue a hundred orphans, 30 puppies and a traumatised chimp, from a burning building, on camera and then make tea for the survivors; and still not be able to shake his baggage.

[Oldmanmatt]

Oh yeah...

A little thing that slipped under the radar, accidentally on purpose? Who knows, I feel slightly conspiracy minded about several things that have happened militarily of late and how they relate to the referendum etc.

Our new carriers, will primarily be used to deploy/carry United States Marines. There will be almost twice as many US aircraft on each as UK aircraft. They will also be carrying US ground troops. I promise, this is not normal. We’re not talking about a joint exercise here, this is an operational deployment configuration, that essentially puts the assets under US command and reduces the UK to a support role.

This has been planned since 2015.

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/hms-queen-elizabeth-carrier-strike-group-to-deploy-in-2021/?no_cache=1


https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/us-marine-corps-stealth-fighters-get-new-home-british-aircraft-carrier-90076

[TobyD]

I don't doubt any ex serviceman who has had anything to do with Ireland will be very anti Corbyn,  and on this I wouldn't disagree with them; but, we're totally outnumbered by credulous believers who don't think he can put a foot wrong.  Despite this my money would certainly be on the election being a pretty bad for the Labour party.  I think most voters will just quickly conclude that Corbyn doesn't have a clear message and is a past-it old London waffler who isn't talking about anything they give a shit about.

[petejh]

Spent 4.5 years in NI between 95 and 2002. Unlike Matt's ex-colleagues I'm not so narrow-minded that I can't imagine having popped into existence in a different place and time and being young and dumb enough to fight for the Irish republican cause instead of the UK government's. While I don't really care about what Corbyn did or or didn't do in relation to the IRA, because he was an outsider and a contrarian, I suppose it isn't really what middle england see as the stuff of the leader of a UK government.

[TobyD]

In many ways Pete,  would you say that morally, the 'young dumb' IRA recruits were less tarnished than Corbyn as they had a real greivance, concerning a situation that they were part of, though their actions were reprehensible; rather than being a north London metropolitan Marxist with an axe to grind against the establishment (whatever that is)

[TobyD]

Interesting analysis:
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/elections/2019/11/four-misconceptions-about-2019-election

[jwi]

Interesting analysis:
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/elections/2019/11/four-misconceptions-about-2019-election

The paragraph about average of polls is hilarious. I did not get further.

[tomtom]

So - what Result would you like Toby? I expect most are unpalatable- but to which would you hold your nose the least?

[petejh]

In many ways Pete,  would you say that morally, the 'young dumb' IRA recruits were less tarnished than Corbyn as they had a real greivance, concerning a situation that they were part of, though their actions were reprehensible; rather than being a north London metropolitan Marxist with an axe to grind against the establishment (whatever that is)

Morally...? Corbyn's a career politician.

Like most career politicians wherever they sit on the spectrum, I'd accept that his morals are flexible depending on the context and circumstance. I haven't much more belief in what politicians say from one day to the next than I do in a 3-month weather outlook.

(Although I hold a particular hatred of Tony Blair's morals in spinning the truth to justify a completely unnecessary war)

[BrutusTheBear]

Is anyone on here planning to talk about policy at any point? Seems to be lots of talk about personality, sweeping judgements etc. And very little conversation about what each party is proposing to do.  All of the parties are made up of more than one person but the focus is on leadership.   
I will be voting Labour because the party is proposing to make radical changes that will benefit the people who most need help in our society, not because I love JC.  Their policies most closely match my personal values and I will buy a ticket for the bus that is travelling closest to the destination I want to go to.  None of the other parties come anywhere near apart from the Greens.   Same policies different leader I would still vote that way.

[Oldmanmatt]

You are confusing how we as individuals feel about policy, and our views on Corbyn’s standing with others.
Pretty sure everyone is fairly ok with most of the Labour policies, if not all, but we’re saying Corbyn’s rep is getting in the way of genuine opposition.

[Offwidth]

The party isn't Corbyn though. Even in the extreme best campaigning case he will have a small majority and will need to carry his moderate MPs with any policy. The other choice is hard brexit and an even more unbalanced and extreme but right wing cabinet. If too many progressives obsess about Corbyn this sort of  tory candidate might win:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/03/tory-candidate-francesca-obrien-wrote-people-benefits-street-should-be-put-down

On the subject of blatantly dishonest anti-Corbyn memes these should be shared with election monitors. I think its shameful that currently people can be posting clearly libelous campaign material because the tories didn't change the law on Internet campaigning to be the same as more traditional campaign material.