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Plant based protein (Read 17473 times)

Ged

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#75 Re: Plant based protein
December 30, 2019, 11:16:20 am
"Aldi’s Paleo date and cashew bars are yummy though"

Too right. I think they're leading me down a rapid road to type 2 diabetes.

The nail in the coffin in game changers for me was the battle ropes bit. For those who haven't seen it, he does the battle ropes for an hour, whereas previously he'd only been able to do half an hour. Put the 100% performance increase entirely down to being vegan. What a ludicrous claim. Its like suggesting that if Usain bolt went vegan, he'd instantly be able to run a 38 second 400 metres.

Ged

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#76 Re: Plant based protein
December 30, 2019, 11:18:47 am
I think a MORE plant based diet is the key here. I'm mainly interested in environmental impact when it comes to not eating animals, rather than health benefits. But there's nothing to say you have to completely give it all up. I try and drive my car less and go on fewer flights, but have no intention of selling my car. Surely its that first 80% reduction that is the biggest difference most people can make. And I guess that goes for any possible health benefits too

tomtom

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#77 Re: Plant based protein
December 30, 2019, 01:20:56 pm
^^ yup.

petekitso

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#78 Re: Plant based protein
December 30, 2019, 03:13:55 pm
There is a Dave Mac vlog of him watching that Game Changers film and making many of these points. It's more entertaining than it sounds because of his obvious efforts to maintain a diplomatic tone when he clearly thinks it's bollocks.

Not so entertaining that I watched to the end though . . .

tomtom

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#79 Re: Plant based protein
December 30, 2019, 03:53:11 pm
Film yourself - we need a video of someone watching a video of Dave Mac watching a video 😁

Bradders

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#80 Re: Plant based protein
January 07, 2020, 09:15:12 pm
Finally managed to make my way through the first 2 hours of the Joe Rogan podcast with James Wilks (from The Game Changers) and Chris Kresser (who had previously done an episode debunking the documentary).

In the first 30 minutes of the debate, they spent most of it focusing on the statistical validity of a meta-analysis of studies looking at whether dairy consumption is a potential cause of cancer, and Wilks was astonishingly wedded to the idea that it is a cause, despite the vast majority of the studies reviewed showing either no correlation or a reduction in risk! He focused exclusively instead on the 16% of the studies which showed an increased risk…16%! It’s a classic case of looking for evidence to prove your hypothesis, and twisting the statistics to do so, rather than considering the evidence in a detached an unemotional way.

They went into vitamin B12 deficiencies in great depth, but all Wilks succeeded in doing is proving that you should eat grass fed meat, not grain fed and supplemented meat, or take a B12 supplement irrespective of your diet. He completely ignored the clear evidence of consistent and significant vitamin B12 deficiencies in vegans.

I thought James came across as very articulate, but he spent most of the time trying to attack the expertise of Chris Kresser rather than actually providing evidence for the claims made in the film! They spend ages debating macro-nutrient intake, which has literally nothing to do with the validity of a vegan diet. It’s classic deflection tactics and Chris rightly and repeatedly made the point that the burden of proof – where James and Game Changers is claiming, for example, that dairy causes cancer – is on James, and he completely failed to meet that burden. James even at one point accuses Chris of having a point of view and working backwards from that to find studies which prove his opinion, despite repeatedly and dogmatically doing the exact same thing himself!

Chris made a particularly excellent point around 45 minutes in – that the most important thing is the overall pattern of diet quality, not the macro nutrient or food type breakdown. I wholeheartedly agree with that.

I'm not saying Chris is a particularly reliable source on his own. As the debate wore on he did seem to flounder. However that doesn't make Wilks' or the Game Changers' arguments any more valid.

reeve

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#81 Re: Plant based protein
January 07, 2020, 10:03:04 pm
Thanks for the summary Bradders - glad that you put yourself through it rather than me  :)

They went into vitamin B12 deficiencies in great depth, but all Wilks succeeded in doing is proving that you should eat grass fed meat, not grain fed and supplemented meat, or take a B12 supplement irrespective of your diet. He completely ignored the clear evidence of consistent and significant vitamin B12 deficiencies in vegans.

Slight side point but related to this. I've been vegetarian for about 20 months now (not for any notion of performance, but environmental and animal welfare reasons), and I've only just come across these supplements by the vegan society. Very affordable, and from  my non-expert position they seem to have been thought out simply to provide the things you're likely missing if you are vegan rather than trying to sell a some wacky nutrition fad.

Bradders

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#82 Re: Plant based protein
January 08, 2020, 07:05:11 am
Ha no worries, still haven't listened to the whole thing though!

Thanks for the link, those look good value. I'm not sure if it's correct but they all seemed to agree at least that pretty much everyone should be supplementing vit B12, regardless of diet.

Ged

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#83 Re: Plant based protein
January 08, 2020, 07:35:37 am
There was a good frrakonomics podcast called "how to change your mind". Seemed to say that on the whole, humans like to think that we look at evidence and make an informed decision on something. In reality that rarely happens, and we first form our views based on all sorts of complex biases, and then go hunting for evidence to support it afterwards.

Well worth a listen.

reeve

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#84 Re: Plant based protein
January 08, 2020, 07:51:24 am
There was a good frrakonomics podcast called "how to change your mind". Seemed to say that on the whole, humans like to think that we look at evidence and make an informed decision on something. In reality that rarely happens, and we first form our views based on all sorts of complex biases, and then go hunting for evidence to support it afterwards.

Well worth a listen.

Totally disagree

SA Chris

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#85 Re: Plant based protein
January 08, 2020, 09:16:01 am
There was a good frrakonomics podcast called "how to change your mind". Seemed to say that on the whole, humans like to think that we look at evidence and make an informed decision on something. In reality that rarely happens, and we first form our views based on all sorts of complex biases, and then go hunting for evidence to support it afterwards.

Well worth a listen.

Confirmation bias? I've not listened to it, but i expect it will be true and very good. ;)

Ged

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#86 Re: Plant based protein
January 08, 2020, 09:54:21 am
Basically yes. But mainly about the reason it's hard for us to change our minds about something is that overwhelming evidence isn't really enough to overcome the tiny scrap of evidence that supports our initial belief.

The really interesting bit I think is where that initial belief comes from.

 

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