[sheavi]

Most, if not all, plant proteins are not as easily absorbed as animal protein.  So what it says on the label probably won't be what's absorbed.  Minimum protein requirement for non-active folk is about 0.8 to 1g per kg bodyweight, about 1.5 to 2 grams for active folk. Very hard to achieve on a vegan diet. I remember reading a while back that hemp powder was good - add to water.  Not a great taste and you need to drink a fair bit of it.

[Bradders]

I stopped eating meat for various reasons a few years ago now. However, the difficulties noted on here are why I still eat fish on a regular basis.

If not fish, to get my protein I eat lots of nuts, eggs, milk, beans, tofu and grains, but also go for some of the more manufactured stuff like quorn, soy based burgers and meat substitutes, etc. Many of these are fairly high in protein (17g for a burger for example), but I've no idea what the quality or absorption stats are like, and I'm also unsure about whether it is actually healthy to be eating such processed foods. Currently convenience wins for me here.

Anecdotally I don't feel I've lost anything in terms of muscle mass, strength, etc. and in fact have bouldered a lot harder since giving it up than I ever did before, but clearly impossible to know whether that is because of or in spite of the diet change.

[slab_happy]

A guy in Sheffield makes/made energy bars made from Cricket powder and gave us a load to 'test'. It was pretty much unanimous that they tasted awful.

I've bought cricket flour and made homemade protein balls with it, some of them pretty decent (chili peanut was the best so far).

It's got a slightly salty/savoury quality to it, but IMHO it doesn't taste any worse than many protein powders (and way better than pea protein).

Right now it's expensive but with more demand and wider production it's expected the price will drop sharply. And really, we should be eating more insects -- very high quality protein with a very low environmental footprint.

[andy popp]

about 1.5 to 2 grams for active folk. Very hard to achieve on a vegan diet.

I can't agree. I was very physically active for many years on a vegan diet without suffering any ill effects (that I noticed anyway).

[jwi]

about 1.5 to 2 grams for active folk. Very hard to achieve on a vegan diet.

I can't agree. I was very physically active for many years on a vegan diet without suffering any ill effects (that I noticed anyway).

Nah, the vegan diets don't suffice for an athlete. That's why Ondra is so crap at climbing, and why Carl Lewi had such an awful 1991.

Seriously.

[wasbeen]

about 1.5 to 2 grams for active folk. Very hard to achieve on a vegan diet.

I can't agree. I was very physically active for many years on a vegan diet without suffering any ill effects (that I noticed anyway).

Nah, the vegan diets don't suffice for an athlete. That's why Ondra is so crap at climbing, and why Carl Lewi had such an awful 1991.

Seriously.

"I asked Adam about his diet, and he described what he eats as a lot of nuts and seeds, he eats a lot of grains, he eats a lot of vegetables and fruits. The main difference that he said between his diet now and his diet a few years ago is that he figured out that he needs more protein. Instead of eating fish two times a week like he used to, he is now eating fish once a day." from https://www.trainingbeta.com/media/adam-ondra-silence/

[monkoffunk]

Remember to add up all the protein when arriving at a total. It’s easy to focus on the protein in the chicken or beans, but forget the protein in the broccoli etc. It’s still counts.

Anyway, it may be hard to eat 2g/kg of protein on a vegan diet but where so these numbers come from? I’m suspicious that there is a marketing agenda behind a lot of what we take as read. There are an awful lot of vegan body builders on Instagram who are either lying or are not struggling to make gains with a lot less protein than that. As climbers gaining a load of weight isn’t the aim, so surely we don’t need as much protein as a body builder?

[teestub]

There are an awful lot of vegan body builders on Instagram who are either lying or are not struggling to make gains with a lot less protein than that.

Are steroids vegan?

[Yossarian]

I’ve been using vegan protein powder from MyProtein for the past couple of months, mainly because my wife bought a massive pack and then decided she doesn’t like it. It’s not as nice as whey, and it needs shaking after being left in a bag for a couple of hours, but it seems pretty decent. I also swapped to Schneider Brot protein bread (in Asda) for my main crag food (with peanut butter) - tasty and remains intact after being bashed with a GriGri, etc. It’s made from a mixture of wheat, pea and soya protein.

I try to keep my protein up generally (with tuna / sardines / cottage cheese mainly), especially since listening to John Kettle’s Traning Beta episode. I upped my protein the day after listening (to about 150g a day @ 90kg - probably nearer the 100g mark currently) and the creaking knee which had been irritating my wife and kids every time I walked up the stairs for the previous few months miraculously went silent and has not returned. Obvs hardly scientific but if not related then a bizarre coincidence.

[monkoffunk]

There are an awful lot of vegan body builders on Instagram who are either lying or are not struggling to make gains with a lot less protein than that.

Are steroids vegan?

Why do people think that steroids somehow magically make muscle? You still need the building blocks. If they are fully vegan plus steroids isn’t that just more evidence that you can get enough vegan protein?

Assuming they are telling the truth about being vegan of course.

[wasbeen]

Anyway, it may be hard to eat 2g/kg of protein on a vegan diet but where so these numbers come from? I’m suspicious that there is a marketing agenda behind a lot of what we take as read. There are an awful lot of vegan body builders on Instagram who are either lying or are not struggling to make gains with a lot less protein than that. As climbers gaining a load of weight isn’t the aim, so surely we don’t need as much protein as a body builder?

This systematic review article looked at the protein intake requirements of "energy-restricted resistance-trained athletes" e.g. skinny climbers. Due to the calorific deficit, the protein requirements are concluded to be even higher at 2.3–3.1g/kg.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24092765
PDF here:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/257350851_A_Systematic_Review_of_Dietary_Protein_During_Caloric_Restriction_in_Resistance_Trained_Lean_Athletes_A_Case_for_Higher_Intakes

[monkoffunk]

So this is if you are replacing carbs as a fuel source with protein?

[sheavi]

Well it's what the scientific consensus is for long-term health.  Dietary effects can take decades.

about 1.5 to 2 grams for active folk. Very hard to achieve on a vegan diet.

I can't agree. I was very physically active for many years on a vegan diet without suffering any ill effects (that I noticed anyway).

[wasbeen]

So this is if you are replacing carbs as a fuel source with protein?

My understanding is that:

Body fat percentage decreased with a calorific deficit
If there was insufficient protein, this also corresponded with a decrease in lean body mass (muscle)

This was the case even for subjects with a slight (200 calories/day) calorie deficit.

As a review article it don't give much in the way of explanation into the mechanisms behind this. The individual papers included in the review might be more enlightening.

[sheavi]

Lewis was juiced up to the gills. 

about 1.5 to 2 grams for active folk. Very hard to achieve on a vegan diet.

I can't agree. I was very physically active for many years on a vegan diet without suffering any ill effects (that I noticed anyway).

Nah, the vegan diets don't suffice for an athlete. That's why Ondra is so crap at climbing, and why Carl Lewi had such an awful 1991.

Seriously.

[andy popp]

Well, as I carry on through my fourth decade of being vegan, I guess I'm going to find out.

Edit: I'm not being sarcastic.

[SA Chris]

I’ve been using vegan protein powder from MyProtein for the past couple of months, mainly because my wife bought a massive pack and then decided she doesn’t like it.

I get a lot of energy gels and bars this way, including a large box of mixed CLIF bars, which are generally grim and not suited to eating on the go.

[cheque]

Nah, the vegan diets don't suffice for an athlete. That's why Ondra is so crap at climbing, and why Carl Lewis had such an awful 1991.

Lewis was juiced up to the gills. 

Are steroids vegan?

[monkoffunk]

The Game Changers film is on Netflix today I’m sure it won’t be lacking in bias, but imagine it will be worth a watch!

[tomtom]

Anyone added protein powder to bread - with any success?

(we make all our own bread at home..)

[wasbeen]

Well, as I carry on through my fourth decade of being vegan, I guess I'm going to find out.

People can survive off a remarkably crap diet. Even that boy who only ate sausages, chips, Pringles and white bread for 10 years 'only' went blind.

The scientific consensus is that it is 'optimal' to have a high protein intake, however the benefit may only be marginal, particularly in the context of all the other factors dictating sporting success. It is reasonable to conclude that any small benefit is not worth the ethical, financial and environmental cost of a high protein diet.

Having said that, if I as looking at going vegan. I would probably look to supplement with some high-protein sources that are minimally processed e.g. rice-protein powder, soy milk, peanut butter.

[andy popp]

Well, as I carry on through my fourth decade of being vegan, I guess I'm going to find out.

People can survive off a remarkably crap diet. Even that boy who only ate sausages, chips, Pringles and white bread for 10 years 'only' went blind.

Jeez, I guess I'm lucky not to have gone blind yet, or something.

[wasbeen]

Well, as I carry on through my fourth decade of being vegan, I guess I'm going to find out.

People can survive off a remarkably crap diet. Even that boy who only ate sausages, chips, Pringles and white bread for 10 years 'only' went blind.

Jeez, I guess I'm lucky not to have gone blind yet, or something.

Apologies no offence intended, that wasn't meant as judgement of your diet

[andy popp]

No worries. I just wanted to point out that analogy made little sense, but I could have been less sarky myself.

[SA Chris]

People can survive off a remarkably crap diet. Even that boy who only ate sausages, chips, Pringles and white bread for 10 years 'only' went blind.

Sounds quite balanced compared to this; https://www.thesun.co.uk/fabulous/food/4662596/fussy-11-year-old-boy-eaten-custard-digestive-biscuits-baby-food-hypnotherapy/