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Kilter Board (Read 7933 times)

Paul B

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#25 Re: Kilter Board
December 09, 2019, 10:57:43 am
I think judging, or making comparisons relative to the MB is perhaps a little unfair and the concept should get a bit more recognition for what it was/is. When the MB appeared at the School my phone was one of those orange/white Sony Ericsson things and the Works had declared there was no need for a training board beyond the now circuit board!

At that time it'd have been hard to imagine being able to walk into your local wall and literally light up 100s of problems set by people from other countries/continents.

AMorris

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#26 Re: Kilter Board
December 09, 2019, 11:03:56 am
I think judging, or making comparisons relative to the MB is perhaps a little unfair and the concept should get a bit more recognition for what it was/is. When the MB appeared at the School my phone was one of those orange/white Sony Ericsson things and the Works had declared there was no need for a training board beyond the now circuit board!

At that time it'd have been hard to imagine being able to walk into your local wall and literally light up 100s of problems set by people from other countries/continents.

I don't think it's particularly unfair, or unreasonable. They are both light up training boards with almost identical user systems. It seems only logical to compare it to other boards of this style, of which (as you pointed out) the MB was the first, and therefore the most obvious choice. Furthermore, most people will not have tried the kilter boards (hence the thread) but will certainly have tried a MB. With this in mind it is the obvious choice for reference that most people will find helpful.

The MB is a great tool and a superb idea, but not without it's faults and definitely not above criticism.

Paul B

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#27 Re: Kilter Board
December 09, 2019, 11:12:04 am
The MB is a great tool and a superb idea, but not without it's faults and definitely not above criticism.

Indeed. Ben even popped up here a few years ago to disagree with one of my comments on the holds (I think a few of the yellow set are grim and still do). You're just comparing something ~10 years old, conceived in a time when training wasn't as 'mainstream', technology (specifically mobile phones) isn't what it now is, and I think that's worth remembering.

AMorris

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#28 Re: Kilter Board
December 09, 2019, 11:50:57 am
The MB is a great tool and a superb idea, but not without it's faults and definitely not above criticism.

Indeed. Ben even popped up here a few years ago to disagree with one of my comments on the holds (I think a few of the yellow set are grim and still do). You're just comparing something ~10 years old, conceived in a time when training wasn't as 'mainstream', technology (specifically mobile phones) isn't what it now is, and I think that's worth remembering.

I think that is a valid point. You are right that it is worth remembering that MB is old tech now. But I feel the comparison is justified, since the MB is still considered the industry standard for this kind of board. My criticisms of the MB are not meant to dismiss it's value as a concept or the impact it seems to have had on modern climbing. I am just not a fan of (most of) the holds on it!

remus

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#29 Re: Kilter Board
December 09, 2019, 03:02:43 pm

Indeed. Ben even popped up here a few years ago to disagree with one of my comments on the holds (I think a few of the yellow set are grim and still do). You're just comparing something ~10 years old, conceived in a time when training wasn't as 'mainstream', technology (specifically mobile phones) isn't what it now is, and I think that's worth remembering.

10 years is also a lot of time to make improvements, especially given Moon had a big head start in terms of being the first to market. Yet a lot of problems from the original setup are still present (vicious holds, funny app etc.)

jwi

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#30 Re: Kilter Board
December 09, 2019, 03:33:27 pm
I liked the first set of moon board holds. The white ones. Am I really the only one?

Paul B

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#31 Re: Kilter Board
December 09, 2019, 04:37:17 pm
10 years is also a lot of time to make improvements, especially given Moon had a big head start in terms of being the first to market. Yet a lot of problems from the original setup are still present (vicious holds, funny app etc.)

True but you've got to have a certain commitment to people that have heavily invested into your system. Imagine now if you/Lattice suddenly stopped supporting L 1.0 and based all your ongoing training around another hold/rail (L 2.0). You'd p*ss a lot of people off.

teestub

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#32 Re: Kilter Board
December 09, 2019, 04:42:04 pm
In the Moon example they have released 2 more sets of holds recently which (as I understand) have also been poorly received.

jshaw

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#33 Re: Kilter Board
December 09, 2019, 04:56:53 pm
I liked the first set of moon board holds. The white ones. Am I really the only one?

Nope. I like the white set of holds, I've got some of them on my board.

However, I don't think they particularly suit a foot-following-hands style board, as AMorris said earlier: many of them are miles too good/big imo.

sdm

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#34 Re: Kilter Board
December 09, 2019, 05:08:19 pm
The concept of the moonboard was great as the first standardized board that was the same anywhere, with light up holds and an app for uploading and logging climbs. The concept is what made all of the other standardized boards possible.

But the implementation of the concept is just awful. The resin holds are so tough on the skin and tweaky on the tendons due to the lack of radius. The plywood holds (haven't tried the new set) are the most conditions dependent holds I have ever used; if its at all warm or humid, you dry fire off them, if you don't brush them after every single attempt, they become sooo greasy. Every other wooden hold maker in the country makes holds that are much better to train on.

The LEDs become impossible to see from above, meaning you have to memorize the holds anyway, so you might as well not bother paying for the lights and the user interface on the app is really awkward.

It's a shame, I want to like the moonboard. The style of big moves between decent holds is a weakness of mine that I am trying to improve. But when I want to work on that weakness, I'm always going to struggle to choose the moonboard over the woody next to it that isn't going to trash my skin for the weekend and is less likely to injure me.

Paul B

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#35 Re: Kilter Board
December 09, 2019, 05:24:53 pm
We're a fussy lot.. I find the local setup at BuK a bit  :devangel:

It looks great, and I like the holds I use on there but find the steeper one effectively has no feet when you're avoiding the biggest holds (all sidepulls etc. have their edges meticulously removed) and the RH board, like all BM boards feels like playing the tendon lottery (to me at least; uncontrolled 'slips' are common).

/tangent

remus

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#36 Re: Kilter Board
December 09, 2019, 06:51:03 pm
10 years is also a lot of time to make improvements, especially given Moon had a big head start in terms of being the first to market. Yet a lot of problems from the original setup are still present (vicious holds, funny app etc.)

True but you've got to have a certain commitment to people that have heavily invested into your system. Imagine now if you/Lattice suddenly stopped supporting L 1.0 and based all your ongoing training around another hold/rail (L 2.0). You'd p*ss a lot of people off.

Sorry, I think I came across as having a harsher position than I actually do. As you say there's a balance to be struck and you definitely can't just throw away the existing holds/problems/setup and start from scratch as you'l piss of everyone whos's already bought the holds.

I think what is a little frustrating is that the new hold sets don't seem to have addressed the issues with the original holds. I had a session on the moonboard at the sheffield depot where I trashed my skin within 15 problems. Maybe in a few years time the holds will have softened a bit, but the 50 board 10ft away is plastered in excellent hardwood holds that you can climb on all day and night without ruining your skin. When the market is chock full of excellent holds it's hard to understand why the moonboard has so few decent holds after being on the market for so long.

petejh

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#37 Re: Kilter Board
December 09, 2019, 09:50:31 pm
This ^

I'm a fan of the Moonboard and unashamed to admit that Moon is one of my few heroes in climbing.. Actually felt a bit of 'brand loyalty' toward the MB! I accepted the MB's weaknesses (tweaky holds) because its strengths were it was a novel concept which really opened up training on a steep board to people who didn't want to or couldn't build a home woodie.

Now there's a better light-up board, with better holds, better lighting system, a larger area, better foothold layout which really opens up the potential for different styles of problem, better app, etc. etc. It's classic market evolution. If you put a Kilter and a Moonboard side-by-side in a climbing wall then nearly everyone would have a better session on the Kilter Board. That isn't unfair criticism of the Moonboard that's just the truth.

I hope Moon one day bring out holds for the MB which are of the standard of the Kilter holds, because it would then be a good competitor to the Kilter at a lower price.     

habrich

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#38 Re: Kilter Board
December 11, 2019, 07:42:11 pm
I really enjoyed my 20 minute play on it ...

+1

Just tried out the board installed at the gym here in Squamish, with help from GenZ son #1 who worked the app for me. The gym has had some issues with the angle-change mechanism so it is currently fixed at 40 degree, but that seemed the right angle anyway. Would be a great toy to have at home ...

mrjonathanr

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#39 Re: Kilter Board
December 11, 2019, 09:50:08 pm
This ^

I'm a fan of the Moonboard and unashamed to admit that Moon is one of my few heroes in climbing..

A propos this, a tale ... Unrelated to the KB, although it sounds ace, I'll be interested to have a play on that sometime.

1988ish late one afternoon in Buoux I watched Ben fall off the very last move of La Secte  ie one move off doing La Rage, one of the few 8b+ around at that time. It was his 3rd go or something that day, so I headed off to hitch back to Apt.

When I got back at 6.30ish, Ben, having transport, was already there at the campsite.

He'd done the route.

SA Chris

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#40 Re: Kilter Board
December 12, 2019, 08:45:48 am
Did he have video evidence though ;)

Coops_13

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#41 Re: Kilter Board
January 08, 2020, 04:08:57 pm


This gives a pretty good view of what the board is like and the problems, for those who haven't been near one. Maybe watch on mute...

Doylo

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#42 Re: Kilter Board
January 09, 2020, 06:44:51 pm
Is it me or are the holds very samey? Doesn’t look like much variety , all similarly sized white pinchy things and flatties.

petejh

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#43 Re: Kilter Board
January 09, 2020, 08:43:56 pm
It's you. The holds are varied. Has everything from bony crimps to jugs; plenty of sidepulls, undercuts, slopers and pinches. You need to try it out at the beacon.

Doylo

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#44 Re: Kilter Board
January 09, 2020, 08:51:32 pm
I’m too grumpy to go to a climbing wall  ;)

James Malloch

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#45 Re: Kilter Board
February 04, 2020, 02:31:21 pm
Had a session on the Board at Awesome Walls Sheffield last night. They have the adjustable 12x12 version.

It’s a really great board! Nice holds, easy to climb on (i.e. the lights are clear), loads of problems. The only thing I didn’t like was it seemed like a pain to change between problems if there’s a few of you. It probably would work okay with multiple phones, but if you just have one then we needed to remember problem names to re-search after changing problems.

SamT

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#46 Re: Kilter Board
May 04, 2020, 01:51:44 pm
Might be old news to most on here, but happened across this.

'Interesting' back story I was un-aware of..

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50270731

SA Chris

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#47 Re: Kilter Board
May 04, 2020, 02:00:25 pm
Very. Good read

BicepsMou

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#48 Re: Kilter Board
June 15, 2020, 04:52:22 pm
We just got a new 12’12 Kilter board in our local gym south of Munich and I second all of the positive aspects mentioned above:
•   Great variety of holds, both shapes and orientation
•   Very ergonomic and nice to touch. No nasty or painful ones discovered (yet)
•   App is very intuitive to use and offers good filtering criteria; also easy to define and upload own problems
•   Works easily with multiple phones in parallel, so multiple climbers / groups of varying ability can have sessions together
•   Angle change is not open to the public user here, as staff don’t want everybody to mess with it, so can’t comment on this, but usually the angle is set to 30° or 45° and especially the latter one offers a perfect combination of demanding body tension and still be wall-ish (not too roof-ish)
•   Broad variety of problems offered – all styles, for all strengths and weaknesses!
•   Have not figured out how the user feedback re difficulty is being taken into account (majority vote?), there are some inconsistencies (e.g. problem having easier grades at steeper angles) and there are also the obligatory sandbag boulders around, but anyway, but these are all minor issues.
•   Can understand the price being an issue for home use, but for a commercial gym, I think that set-up caters the biggest possible variety for climbers of all levels

James Malloch

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#49 Re: Kilter Board
June 15, 2020, 07:59:41 pm
For anyone around Leeds, looks like City Bloc are getting a kilter board installed based on some instagram posts

 

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