[tomtom]

Use interrail tickets. It's generally cheaper or equivalent to individual tickets, but is useful for when one connection goes tits up. You can also book all the seat reservations you need through interrail, but it may cost slightly extra (I think). I did Leeds - Vienna earlier this year and it's a great journey, even with an enforced layover in Munich. That said, the first-thing-in-the-morning train from Munich to Vienna was incredible, with the sun rising over the Alps! The new Bruxelles-Wien nightjet will certainly make things easier.

Austria is funny wrt rail. Afaik it’s got a recently de-nationalised system so there are new private players pitching in for routes. Which leads to some ticket/combined timetable given stuff that we have with our bonkers UK system.

[steveri]

The biggest stinker for most of us engaged in a travel intensive hobby is surely darting around in cars making hour long journeys to climb 4m high rocks?

[tomtom]

The biggest stinker for most of us engaged in a travel intensive hobby is surely darting around in cars making hour long journeys to climb 4m high rocks?

And those fancy new climbing centres all consume to be built... tbh I don’t think climbing is that bad - doesn’t require much equipment but travel is a component.

[SA Chris]

I'd say nipping over by plane to Font / Spain / Swizzy / The Alps a couple of times a year for a long weekend is worse than the hour long journeys to local crags a couple of times a week.

[teestub]

A return flight to Swizzy is about 0.32 tonnes, which from looking at a few calculators buys you about 2 tanks of diesel, which doesn’t get you many 2 hour round trips to the crag!

[tomtom]

A return flight to Swizzy is about 0.32 tonnes, which from looking at a few calculators buys you about 2 tanks of diesel, which doesn’t get you many 2 hour round trips to the crag!

10-15? which doubles (in carbon equivalents) if you have two people in the car...

Ste-Mac gets a gold star for cycling out to Stanage and back for a session:)

(sorry - I realise I've only posted slightly snarky replies on this thread so far... just busy with my 3 year old carbon burden )

[teestub]

How often do you have a passenger for your transpennine voyages Tom 

[steveri]

Ste-Mac gets a gold star for cycling out to Stanage and back for a session:)

The guy I met at Burbage about to cycle back down the hill with a pad on his back in high wind gets a gold star. Assuming he's still with us 

[SA Chris]

A return flight to Swizzy is about 0.32 tonnes, which from looking at a few calculators buys you about 2 tanks of diesel, which doesn’t get you many 2 hour round trips to the crag!

Does the flight arrive at the crag, or do you still have an hour plus to drive once there?

I'm paying the devil's advocate here; I fly to the Alps once a year, yet complain that the snow isn't as reliable these days!

[SA Chris]

Ste-Mac gets a gold star for cycling out to Stanage and back for a session:)

The guy I met at Burbage about to cycle back down the hill with a pad on his back in high wind gets a gold star. Assuming he's still with us 

Most of the bouldering I do these days is walking distance from my house, carbon credits!

[Bradders]

The biggest stinker for most of us engaged in a travel intensive hobby is surely darting around in cars making hour long journeys to climb 4m high rocks?

Yeah, this is why individual changes will only ever get us so far. We (the Western world) have become far too accustomed to such luxuries as hobbies and holidays - every other day I seem to have a conversation with someone who's just booked, about to go on or just got back from some long haul flight based trip.

[T_B]

The biggest stinker for most of us engaged in a travel intensive hobby is surely darting around in cars making hour long journeys to climb 4m high rocks?

Yeah, this is why individual changes will only ever get us so far. We (the Western world) have become far too accustomed to such luxuries as hobbies and holidays - every other day I seem to have a conversation with someone who's just booked, about to go on or just got back from some long haul flight based trip.

Surely it depends on your peer group/life stage/age? Many of my peers (mid 40s, young kids) seem to all be buying electric or plug in hybrid cars and consciously deciding not to fly as much. Will that still be the case when the little darlings have flown the nest, or will we all be on sun rock trips again 

[Will Hunt]

The best thing that anybody can do is to not have kids. However, by having kids you immediately become a low consuming individual. No more long haul flights, less meat at mealtimes, less frivolous consumption. Because you haven't got any fucking money!

Swings and roundabouts innit 

[SA Chris]

Next is item 2.

2) Consumption

The biggest offences committed here are probably electronics; TVs, phones, household appliances, computers, cameras tablets all purchased in our desire to have the latest, best, fastest, biggest, smallest, shiniest. And discarded at the slightest notion of obsolescence, slight malfunction.

What we eat is also not great, worst offence include buying bananas or pineapples flown from halfway across the world, only to be thrown in the compost if they go slightly the wrong colour, or binned the day of ther best before date, even if they look and smell fine. Vegetarianism / veganism is good, but not if in the desire to keep food interesting you start getting stuff sourced further and further away. Otherwise, don't buy plastic wrapped / bagged if you can avoid, source local when possible, etc etc.

Wear clothes until they fall to bits, avoid fashion traps and labels, don't own more than you can possibly wear, and if you have too much, donate in clothes bins, charities etc. Don't have cupboards full.

[SA Chris]

The best thing that anybody can do is to not have kids.

Best thing you can do is surely remove yourself from the population completely. Or go on a killing spree first. Next is to not have kids.

[tomtom]

How often do you have a passenger for your transpennine voyages Tom 

Rarely - but it does happen. But That’s to go to work. If I get weather right it also includes a trip to the crag removing an additional trip.

But I’m not going to get sucked into a ‘my carbon emissions are better than yours’ silly stuff because: Everyone has a level of climate hypocrisy... we all consume things (down to the carbon that is used to maintain this forum and send the data to our devices) and make internal choices about what we are comfortable with doing. 

That includes having children, owning a dog, taking flights, eating meat and so on and so on...

[tomtom]

(That’s not an excuse - or justification btw - and I’m not saying we shouldn’t reduce our consumption (we should!!) just that we all lead a carbon compromised life no matter how hard we might try)

[SA Chris]

Quite. I think the intent of this thread is to discuss what we can all do better where possible to reduce our environmental impact?  I've committed so many grave offences in the past I could never be forgiven. It would take me a while to count up the number of times I've flown to South Africa and back in my life alone..

[Bradders]

Surely it depends on your peer group/life stage/age? Many of my peers (mid 40s, young kids) seem to all be buying electric or plug in hybrid cars and consciously deciding not to fly as much. Will that still be the case when the little darlings have flown the nest, or will we all be on sun rock trips again 

Yes of course there will be variances amongst different societal groups but, as TT says, we're all at fault in some way (your peers all having kids, for instance).

[tomtom]

We can do a fair bit through our own behaviour changes and lifestyle choices (mainly about consumption).

But the largest changes come through political and economic forcing. Take EV’s - this (I suspect) is being driven by REAL pollution epidemics in cities, diesel gate (though nox emissions can be easily engineered out - as per adblue), and car manufacturers being kicked into realising there’s a new angle to make money by getting everyone to upgrade (kick via Tesla).

Politically in Europe this is happening slowly - but USA and Australia are heinous outliers in their attitudes and policies... don’t underestimate developing economies appreciation of CC either.. China is making some quite big decisions based on limiting CC.

I wonder what will make the US and AU change.... I thought Katrina back in 2006 would do it - and Sandy and other hurricanes since... but no. Florida is fucked. Really fucked (that’s a professional view). It’s built on effectively porous rock - so you can build sea defences but the water will just pop up inland... when will the penny drop? When the solar /wind lobby is bigger than the oil one?

[SA Chris]

The most utter piece of idiocy I heard too was that, even in the sunniest state in the US, Florida has a ban on anyone sourcing electricity from anyone apart from the state electrical supplier. No individually owned wind turbines, solar panels etc.

Not only is it porous rock tt, but it is flat, very fat, like even more than Norfolk flat.

[T_B]

Surely it depends on your peer group/life stage/age? Many of my peers (mid 40s, young kids) seem to all be buying electric or plug in hybrid cars and consciously deciding not to fly as much. Will that still be the case when the little darlings have flown the nest, or will we all be on sun rock trips again 

Yes of course there will be variances amongst different societal groups but, as TT says, we're all at fault in some way (your peers all having kids, for instance).

Of course. The question is will people change their actions (even having fewer/no kids)? I think they are doing.

But I agree, a lot of people still don't think twice about taking multiple flights per year to climb up rocks.

[Paul B]

With my previous leave allowance I went away a lot but it's worth bearing in mind that another member of this parish informed me that (at the time; ~Aug) he'd flown the equivalent of once every 4 days. That's staggering.

[Adam Lincoln]

Sadly as a climber, and also my career, it is pretty hard to make a difference. I can't see that changing either. I drive an hour each way to the crag 4 or 5 times a week, get a helicopter to work, and run two large diesel vehicles.

I do find it funny that a lot of climbers are always going on these marches down in London, but then they don't think twice about hooning round the country to different crags, and taking flights all over the place.Or maybe they do think twice, but decide to pursue their hobby as it makes them happy. Which doesn't make them bad people i might add.

[gme]

I really dont believe we will get people to change how we live enough to make a difference. We can consume better but people will only travel more and consume more.
Focus needs to be on technology to allow it to happen in a less damaging manner. 

And in my experience climbers travel far more than any other sport I have been involved in other than surfing. Two sports that pride themselves in there eco credentials.