[James Malloch]

I’m planning a big trip in 18 months time and I’m thinking about getting the van a year early to get a bit of extra use out of it.

I wondered if anyone can advise on what to look out for (good and bad things)?

I’ll be looking for something big enough for 2 people, 2 pads and 2 bikes. I’m guessing high roof MWB at a minimum. Crew cab would be ideal but can install windows etc no problem if needed.

In terms of vans, I’ve heard some are easier to steal (newer fords), some are very prone to rust etc. So I’m a bit unsure how to start tailoring my search.

I think I’ll have about £15k to spend on the actual van which opens up newer models with lower mileage. I’ve got my last cars from main dealers (second hand) which have always been good but not sure if this is worth it for vans or a general dealership is okay.

Any thoughts / advice would be welcomed!

[spidermonkey09]

£15k should get you an awful lot of van. Presumably you want to kit it out yourself. I'd be looking at a Sprinter or similar I think.

I've also heard Transits are easily nickable/rust quickly but I never know how much of it is middle ages man pub talk that just gets passed on as established fact after they once bought a rusty one in 1984. That said I know nothing about cars so I just buy based on gut instinct!

[nai]

I recently bought a motorhome, I was told (or read, can't remember) to avoid a Ford base but didn't think much of it. When I phoned insurance they asked if it was built on Ford or something else, when I replied that it's a Fiat they said it doesn't matter as long as it's not Ford.  Think they would still insure it but it'll likely cost more and they may ask for extra secrurity like a tracker or something.

[James Malloch]

I think the newer fords have some cables on show at the rear doors. If you cut them the van unlocks and becomes easy to steal. I’ve known a few people who’ve had theirs stolen so maybe that’s why - good to know that an insurance company has asked about it though. One to avoid then!

I’m happy to spend less but my thinking is that it probably wouldn’t lose too much value once I’d kitted it out so happy to put the extra money in up front for piece of mind. Sprinter or Crafter are the main ones I’ve thought of, or maybe some of the big fiats. But don’t know what to look for really - my main thing is that I want cruise control and air con! I’ve never had that luxury before and think I need to start on the next purchase!!

Yeah, I’ll look to fit it out myself (other than windows if needed). Living on a boat has taught me everything I could need for van conversion tips I think. I’ve become a jack of all trades and master of half finishing jobs...

[andy_e]

Given a friend's recent experience of Transits in city centre car parks, I'd avoid getting one for sure. I think that was a known security issue on the front doors too.

[Paul B]

Have a think which way you might want your bed as some vans are slightly wider. Personally my next van will have a fixed bed, length-ways (and I'm not tall). Rock and roll beds become a pain in the arse (putting everything away, getting the bed out, realising you've forgotten to turn off the gas etc.). I'd also be fitting rear, pullout drawers for any bikes.

It's worth noting that some places you may want to go in your van on your trip might be precluded by its height (due to goal posts) but I'd definitely take the high top, fixed roof option these days over my old T4 pop-top!

If someone wants to get into your van, they're going to be successful. Someone drilled the locks on mine (multiple locks, not just one) whilst I was asleep in in.

[sdm]

I'm researching a van purchase at the moment, so none of this is from personal experience.

The latest generation of Sevels (Fiat Ducato, Peugeot Boxer, Citroen Relay) seem to have become the go to for largeish conversions as they are fully galvanised so won't rust and they are more rectangular which makes converting it much simpler. Downside is they aren't as reliable as a Sprinter or Transit. Older versions had rust issues. I drove a new lwb Boxer for a day, it was nice to drive, ate up the motorway miles and was surprisingly car like around town until I had to park on a small residential street.

Transits are very reliable but rust badly. It is not uncommon to see one with just 70k miles that are already rusting badly. I think they started galvanising them on the Mark 6, but they only galvanised certain panels, leaving the rest to still rust badly  . I'm not sure if they may have fixed this in the very newest ones or the newest Customs (they are out of my price range). I've seen a few Custom conversions where they have installed additional locks and trackers apparently as an insurance requirement.

Sprinters are also reliable rust buckets. Sprinters with metallic paint rust less badly than white ones.

Movanos/Vivaros/Masters/Trafics are galvanised but can have electrical and injector issues. Some parts like swivel seats are apparently harder to source for the vivaro/trafic, I think this is the same for the Ford Custom.

Pros and cons with all of them.

[Duma]

Air con may be an issue - not fitted to many vans afaik

Sprinters and crafters have significantly diff engine options - worth reading up on, but IIRC the base crafter engine is a bit short on power compared to the merc.

If you're looking at putting the bed acrossways the fiat/citroen/renault/transits are significantly wider than sprinters/crafters - I sleep across mine (sprinter) but only just fit at just under 5'9"

[Fultonius]

VW Crafters seem to suffer horrendously from rust. I've seen 5 year old ones totally riddled.

We have a VW T5 high top MWB at work. It's had a few electrical gremlins (auto start stop keeps failing), it wheel spins like mad in any gear in the wet and the fuel economy is pretty lame (35mpg at motoroway speeds), but otherwise drives ok.

I've never owned a newer Boxer/Ducato/Relay, but they seem to be the "go to" base vehicle if you want a slightly bigger van.

[kelvin]

I regularly got over 40mpg in Relay/Ducati/Boxer vans on the runs to Spain or Swizzy. The LWB weighed 2600kg on the weighbridge with a full conversion, all my gear (full-time living) and fat me in it.
They sleep widthways easily if you're under 6ft1in and that's after insulation and boarding.
Issues - I had them all. The gearbox hates reversing uphill, it's too weak. Walk away from anything that's been used to tow, the gearbox will fail at some point.
The EGR needs cleaning often, so plenty of runs down an open road in third gear.
The rear door is easy to break into with just a screw driver. Re-enforce it.
Airflow meters are an issue - I carried a spare and needed it.
Otherwise, great vans. I lived and climbed for two years in one (two vans actually), they genuinely don't rust, don't eat tyres or fuel, convert easily and are comfortable on a long run.

[remus]

If you own a transit and fancy scaring yourself a little with how easy they are to get in to

Having said that I've got a SWB low top and it's been good so far. Boxy shape that was easy to convert. Very reliable so far, bought it at 70k miles for £4.5k and put 60k miles on it so far and only work I've had done (other than usual oil changes etc.) is some suspension bits that came to £500 inc labour.

I've cleaned up little spots of rust here and there but no real problems so far.

[James Malloch]

Thanks for all the responses so far! Sounds like transits could be one to avoid just in case. The Ducato/Boxers sound like a decent option - and generally a bit cheaper which is always good.

Bed wise I hadn't thought about going across the van - I'm 6' 1" so may be a little tall but would see how it worked out. We are however thinking of the big built in bed with a rear "garage" type thing. Pull out drawers are a great idea! Good beta, Paul! Definitely going for a high top too, I think something I can stand up in is needed.

I hadn't thought about air con not being fitted. Cruise control would suffice though - at least it's one step forward in the comfort zone!!

Interesting to hear about the differences in rust proneness and whether they are galvanised. Definitely something to bare in mind. I assumed the Crafter would be great given the VW label!

Kelvin, nice to hear your experiences too. I've started seeing more of these vehicles being converted so they must be decent, maybe I should get in now before they inflate in value!

The ford videos are pretty terrifying - I've seen a few others too. As Paul said, if someone wants to get in then they will, but it seems crazy that such weaknesses are still around given recent technology!

[Bradders]

Didn't seem worth starting a new thread....also appreciate all the knowledge from earlier posts!

Hoping someone might have some knowledge on a couple of questions I have.

First around depreciation. Does anyone know or can point me to any resources around how converted vans / camper vans depreciate in value? I imagine it depends on the van so probably no easy answer. I for example noted that Jimmy Webb is currently selling his 2007 Sprinter conversion with 184k miles on it....for $75,000!! Is that really realistic for a decent conversion at that age and mileage? That amount of money seems to get you something practically brand new in the UK.

Linked to that; are vans with that sort of mileage worth considering? Have to say I've had bad experiences with cars on this front which puts me off. I know it depends again on how it's been looked after, type of driving etc.

[Doylo]

SemenStains.

[Wood FT]

Didn't seem worth starting a new thread....also appreciate all the knowledge from earlier posts!

Hoping someone might have some knowledge on a couple of questions I have.

First around depreciation. Does anyone know or can point me to any resources around how converted vans / camper vans depreciate in value? I imagine it depends on the van so probably no easy answer. I for example noted that Jimmy Webb is currently selling his 2007 Sprinter conversion with 184k miles on it....for $75,000!! Is that really realistic for a decent conversion at that age and mileage? That amount of money seems to get you something practically brand new in the UK.

Linked to that; are vans with that sort of mileage worth considering? Have to say I've had bad experiences with cars on this front which puts me off. I know it depends again on how it's been looked after, type of driving etc.

If you get a transit, get all the locks changed and beef up security. They're going like hot cakes around these parts.

[cheque]

Jimmy Webb is currently selling his 2007 Sprinter conversion with 184k miles on it....for $75,000!!

What did he convert it into? A yacht?!

[SA Chris]

Due to a lot of people not flying for holidays, lots of people buying vans / campers for activities in the UK. I reckon early next summer when people want to fly off for a summer hols somewhere sunny they will start realising the van they bought wont get used, might ne worth looking then?

FWIW, when we sere shopping for a T5 about 12 years ago we ended up buying new as second hand ones were only a couple of grand cheaper, and got a conversion done. We could probably sell it right now for not a lot less than we have spent on it.

 

[Bradders]

Due to a lot of people not flying for holidays, lots of people buying vans / campers for activities in the UK. I reckon early next summer when people want to fly off for a summer hols somewhere sunny they will start realising the van they bought wont get used, might ne worth looking then?
 

Yes this had crossed my mind too. I'm not looking to go ahead until next year now anyway so hopefully it'll work quite well.

[SA Chris]

Mate is saving now on the same principle too.

Worth having a conversation with dealers when you have time to see what the best possible price is for new so you have a benchmark.

[Bonjoy]

The resale value will depend on the quality and type of conversion job. A cheap 'non-invasive' conversion will allow the van to be resold as a van rather than a camper. A quality conversion will raise the value. Anything in between will likely drop the value significantly, especially if you've cut holes in the van to fit vents/windows.
From a resale POV, unless you are sure you have the skills, time and commitment to do a high quality job, I would go for conversion by a professional. A self conversion of a high standard is not much cheaper than having someone else do it. Either way it will be a big chunk of your budget.
The other option is to convert it how you like without considering resale and keep the van long term.
Or buy someone else's home conversion. In all likelihood you'll get the most for your money this way as home conversions are typically undervalued as buyers are (rightly) wary about the workmanship/design. If you have the time to study the van well and quiz the seller/converter you could get a real gem.

[spidermonkey09]

Or buy someone else's home conversion.

Unless you're really handy or happy to drop a lot of money converting it this is what I'd do. Buy a converted one and drive it until it dies. As my dad told me when inspecting the inside my of my van: "you'd have done a much shitter job than this." 

[Paul B]

From a resale POV, unless you are sure you have the skills, time and commitment to do a high quality job, I would go for conversion by a professional. A self conversion of a high standard is not much cheaper than having someone else do it. Either way it will be a big chunk of your budget.

Don't underestimate the amount of time (or spray glue) required either.

It'll be interesting to see if this glut of vans does actually appear. I was thinking the same would happen with bikes but it's still very slim pickings in the secondhand market.

[Bradders]

Or buy someone else's home conversion.

Unless you're really handy or happy to drop a lot of money converting it this is what I'd do. Buy a converted one and drive it until it dies. As my dad told me when inspecting the inside my of my van: "you'd have done a much shitter job than this." 

Yep, that rings a bell haha

I have none of the skills, time, space, tools or patience required to do it myself even if I wanted to.

I'm very reluctant to take the "drive it till it dies" approach, mainly because there are other ambitions on the 5-10 year time horizon which it would be helpful to have the extra funds from a sale for!

[SA Chris]

I have zero skills, time or tools either, so we went for the "best for buck" version, and got a guy who was doing conversions in spare time to do it rather than the "official" converters. Not the best in the world, but still holding up 13 years. 

[turnipturned]

Not sure comparing American prices is that useful.

In terms of vans, I think if you buy a base van and convert it, you could easily put 50-75k miles extra on the clock and not loose any money or even make (as well as having cheaper holidays). That’s certainly my experience with my last two vans.

If going down that route, I would suggest avoiding Barry basic base vans, spend a little extra and get AC, electric windows, reversing sensors. People want a car like experience and comfort.

If you are looking at converting, doing it yourself could save £3kish but expect some issues and challenges. If you are going to get someone else to do it, read some reviews, there are a lot of horror stories out there. Also, be warned, currently there are hardly any parts about, we have waited 8months for a pop lid and 1 year for a rib Altair bed. So if you are planning on doing it next year, I would start now.

With that in mind, I don’t think the theory of loads of people selling Campervans next year is going to be the case and I think prices will remain quite high.

Also, VW are a lot easier to convert, mainly as there is more available parts and generally designed around transporters (if you are thinking of mid size van that is)