[SA Chris]

It makes me feel sad reading all these comments......

There are lots of boot demos happening across the UK. At least try the new stuff and give it a proper chance, don't hold on to ancient opinions that are not relevant any more.

Why should it sadden you? People aren't missing out by using another brand which works for them, without any impact on your life. I've never seen a demo day in Scotland, if there have been any they have been poorly advertised.

I started in Boreal, Ballet, Aces, then Vectors, bought for my first ever climbing trip to Europe, and they had that shitty rubber which rolled off in lumps. I was gutted and had to shell out for a brand new pair of shoes (Mythos, which I loved incidentally) on a very tight dirtbag budget, and swore off the then.

Since then, I've had (at least) 5.10 x 3, Mad Rock x 2, Evolv x 1 and Sportiva x 2, but never really see any Boreal in the shops or hear from anyone I know (personally) raving about them to a point where I think I MUST give them a shot.

Scarpa are doing a demo day at the local wall next Saturday, so I'm quite keen to try a couple out and make a direct comparison with my current go tos: Evolv Bandit and Las Sportiva Solution. If Boreal did the same I'd certainly give them a shot, and if they were a revelation I'd probably buy a pair, if the colours weren't horrendous.

[Adam Lincoln]

Ok so killing some time here. What brand of shoes has been worn on the top ascents of the year so far, in the UK.

Progress - jb - Boreal
Megalopa - jb - Boreal
Hubble - pd - sportiva
Sea of Tranquility - pd - sportiva
Pilgrimage - pd - sportiva

Not very up on Raven Tor happenings.....

[spidermonkey09]

Maybe if they offered a free pair to all the regulars on here which would be 30 or 40 pairs I guess. Then when said regulars rave about them to every body they will everyone’s go too shoes again.

I'd happily do an objective review!

More seriously, climbers are creatures of habit. Look at the reaction to the whites being discontinued. I have found that Sportivas fit me and its going to take something significant to move me off something I know works. What Boreal have to think about is how to get people buying them as their first intermediate shoe when they haven't worked out what they like yet. To that end, image, marketing and getting your name in lights is probably much more important than trying to convince those who have already gone that the rubber is actually good. I bet Sportiva spend a fortune on design; their shoes are always striking and look the business, even if they have about 15 models too many.

[SA Chris]

What kind of image do you associate with the brand?

As others have said, worn by everyone in the 80s and 90s, but lost their way in a competitive market.. A bit like ASOLO worn by a lot of french hotshots of the same era.

[cheque]

.

climbers are creatures of habit. Look at the reaction to the whites being discontinued.

  I remember a big thread on here about what the equivelent new Scarpas were when they discontinued Vapours(?) or something too. It's such a gamble predicting what size will be right in shoes you've never tried as well- when you know they still make the same shoes in the same size that you've had x pairs of you just get another.

I know some that people take a punt on new shoes all the time and end up selling at least some of them on (whatever happened to WeakDave?!) but far more of us are like SamT with his three rotating pairs of Instincts- if a manufacturer hasn't got this kind of "cult following" for any of it's models they end up having new ones all the time that people don't know anything about and eye with suspicion- this is where I (rightly or wrongly) see Boreal. Whether their new shoes are good or not doesn't really matter as we're too conservative and risk-averse to try them. Our mates are too so we never hear about new ones. If sponsored wads wear unusual shoes- "they could climb hard in Crocs". 

It’s unlikely I’ll buy more 5.10 in the post Charles Cole era so when my stock of Blancos and Dragons are depleted I’ll be casting around for something else.

Reinforcing my point above I was very pleased (I guess relieved is the right word really) to find that Unparallel live up to their hype as being basically the same as Five Ten if not a bit better. I won't be buying Five Tens any more but I will be buying the Unparallel equivalents of the Five Tens I like.

[r-man]

I used to buy the old Boreal Mutants. Again and again. The toe shape was pretty crap but the heel fit me brilliantly. It suctioned onto my foot and for the first time in my life I could heel hook things without the shoe peeling off. Then they changed the design and now the heel isnt as good.

Boreal, if you can make a performance shoe with a great toe and a heel that fits people with shallow heels (yes, there are lots of us, desperate for something that works!), then I would willingly buy it.

This goes for other shoe manufacturers too. Why are you all making your aggressive shoes with the same bulgy baggy heels? People have different shaped feet. If just one top end shoe had a straight-backed heel, it would be the clear choice for lots of people.

Anyway, back to Boreals. I've got a pair of Lynxes that a friend gave me. They are decent. I mainly use them for edgy stuff in the quarries. Though when I want to try something at my limit, I switch to Sportiva Testarossas, because the toes are brilliant (shame the heels are awful for me). I can at least heel hook a bit with Lynxes.

I tried on a few shoes at the Wilton Fest Boreal demo. The down-turned shoe that seemed to have the most secure heel was the Synergy. I tried it out on a boulder. Pulled on to something steep, weighted the heel on a large edge...and it peeled off my foot. Everybody laughed. I returned the shoes.

[spidermonkey09]

 Whether their new shoes are good or not doesn't really matter as we're too conservative and risk-averse to try them. Our mates are too so we never hear about new ones. If sponsored wads wear unusual shoes- "they could climb hard in Crocs". 

I would be much happier to take a punt on shoes if they were 50 quid, but I'm lucky to get under 100 these days so its a significant financial outlay every time.

Re the sponsored wads comment, made me laugh recently when Red Chili were at Malham filming someone with a drone  . My partner casually remarked 'Its going to take a lot more than some footage of someone on a 7a+ to make me buy Red Chillis again". I imagine that holds true for a lot of people!

[Yossarian]

This magic machine Boreal have for proving their rubber is the best is worth absolutely nothing if they fail to communicate that. They have a pretty impressive rosta of sponsored talent, but their marketing strategy seems to be incredibly ill-thought through.

Personally, I think 5.10’s brand management in the 2000s was totally textbook - they created an hallowed aura around a rubber compound (with a good name) that everyone coveted. Also, wads were using shoes like the pink and velcro that punters could happily use on grit vdiffs. That sort of combination is pretty hard to beat. Sportiva were surely more innovative, both with materials (the Tao) and shapes / concepts (Mythos / Testarossa) but the 5.10 stickiness narrative (myth or reality, it doesn’t really matter) was pretty compelling for years. At least until things like weird baggy heels and poor buid quality persuaded people (like me) to try other things.

[r-man]

Ok so killing some time here. What brand of shoes has been worn on the top ascents of the year so far, in the UK.

Progress - jb - Boreal
Megalopa - jb - Boreal
Hubble - pd - sportiva
Sea of Tranquility - pd - sportiva
Pilgrimage - pd - sportiva

Not very up on Raven Tor happenings.....

I'd be interested in a bouldering list. Micro-positioning and the limits of friction/toe-grab are even more crucial in low percentage moves.

[r-man]

If sponsored wads wear unusual shoes- "they could climb hard in Crocs".  :lol

True... https://www.instagram.com/p/B14WK_UjDUB/?igshid=3kxg3o78gb5l

[Paul B]

This magic machine Boreal have for proving their rubber is the best is worth absolutely nothing if they fail to communicate that. They have a pretty impressive rosta of sponsored talent, but their marketing strategy seems to be incredibly ill-thought through.

Agreed. Also testing by manufacturer's that prove their product is superior to competitors should attract a great degree of scrutiny. They should also stop the whole party trick of boots sticking together.

How's the compound in cold weather as my recollection of testing some one winter at the Foundry during a boot demo isn't positive (also I can remember being unable to get something that fit well)?

I also used to wear Stingers. Never managed to get a pair of the Matrix (WWJD).

[SA Chris]

FYI Demo Days

http://www.borealoutdoor.com/community/detail/2019/02/05/boreal-uk-demo-series-2019

Nearest to me is 2 hours away. On a Tuesday.

[Ally Smith]

Ok so killing some time here. What brand of shoes has been worn on the top ascents of the year so far, in the UK.

Progress - jb - Boreal
Megalopa - jb - Boreal
Hubble - pd - sportiva
Sea of Tranquility - pd - sportiva
Pilgrimage - pd - sportiva

Not very up on Raven Tor happenings.....

...For the sake of balance, as Adam hasn't declared his Sportiva interest 

Dave Mason, multiple 8B/+ ticks - Unparallel
Jack Palmieri, an absolute metric  :shit:tonne of 8A-8B+ - Unparallel
Alex Barrows, Father and Son, Frankenjura, 8c, Scarpa
Mat Wright, Make it Funky 8c, Sportiva

[r-man]

 We've had quite a few Brits doing 8B+ and 8C boulders this year, at home and abroad. Where's Remus when you need him...?

[NaoB]

It makes me feel sad reading all these comments......

There are lots of boot demos happening across the UK. At least try the new stuff and give it a proper chance, don't hold on to ancient opinions that are not relevant any more.

Why should it sadden you?

It saddens me because I know the boreal team well, they are a family business and lovely people, who I see trying really hard to fight against long-held opinions that are out of date. They have had to work extra hard to prove themselves and yet many still don't give them a chance.

[SA Chris]

I guess this is partly due to the fact that you know them so well? How do you know some of the other makers aren't the same?

[spidermonkey09]

It saddens me because I know the boreal team well, they are a family business and lovely people, who I see trying really hard to fight against long-held opinions that are out of date. They have had to work extra hard to prove themselves and yet many still don't give them a chance.

This makes sense. I still think it isn't the people on this thread that are the low hanging fruit for Boreal though... not sure their shoes are even in the local wall in Leeds so people are going to struggle to have sight of them. Maybe its a distribution issue I guess.

[NaoB]

I guess this is partly due to the fact that you know them so well? How do you know some of the other makers aren't the same?

They may well be. Tbh, I'm a bit of a softy, it always makes me feel uncomfortable when folk get slagged off, but especially when I believe it's unfair....

[Doylo]

Jordan swears by that cheaty heel spur . 

[tc]

Thanks for all the comments, insights and fun, you lot -- really useful stuff.

[abarro81]

.

climbers are creatures of habit. Look at the reaction to the whites being discontinued.

 

  too. Every time Scarpa/Mountain Boot stop making/importing my favourite Scarpas I have a little tantrum, try to stock-pile some pairs, try a new shoes, decide I don't like it but I'll start using it a bit anyway to see if I adjust to it, then 6 months down the line I'm totally sold on the new shoe and it's my new default. Happened with Magos, Instinct Laces (red ones), Booster S, and now I'm just about getting sold on the Chimeras... I think new shoes take time to get used to getting the most out of sometimes, as the "feel" changes a bit.. I hate changing shoes when they're free and if I was paying full price I'd avoid it even more in case I chose wrong

[Andy F]

It makes me feel sad reading all these comments......

There are lots of boot demos happening across the UK. At least try the new stuff and give it a proper chance, don't hold on to ancient opinions that are not relevant any more.

Why should it sadden you?

It saddens me because I know the boreal team well, they are a family business and lovely people, who I see trying really hard to fight against long-held opinions that are out of date. They have had to work extra hard to prove themselves and yet many still don't give them a chance.

Naomi, if Boreal brought out a shoe that was clearly better than the opposition, in reasonable colours at a good price I'm sure many (including me) might be tempted. As shoes are such a fundamental part of climbing, when you find a make that fits well, for a fair price, with reliable rubber in reasonable colours, as paying punters we tend to stick to them.

One bad bit of press, or product can be disastrous for a companies image (thinking about Alfa/Lancia and rust in the 70s and 80s) which may well take decades to reverse.

[cheque]

I’m perplexed by the good colours/ good design comments. All climbing shoes are ugly surely? Most look like the kind of trainers kids wear to me.

[petejh]

To just point out the obvious about marketing..

Boreal have one of the UK's most consistently brilliant climbers over the past 10-15 years (Jordan) and one of the UK's national climbing treasures (Moon). Neither of them known for their self-marketing! Jordan disappeared without social media trace in the last couple of years (fair play to him) despite repeating everything hard trad and sport.

They need some attention-craving blowhards!

[Doylo]

They need some attention-craving blowhards!

Don’t they sponsor Pasquill too? Top tip - only sponsor people who know what the internet is.