[Fiend]

I've been back redpointing recently. It's a pile of toss, but not nearly as much toss as banging my head against an inspiring trad wall because my confidence has fucked off somewhere on distant holidays.

I'm getting the hang of most of it. Dogging, working out the easiest sequences (I do quite well at this by necessity because I'm far too heavy / weak / unfit to power through the hard ways like everyone else), more dogging, little practise falls, resting. I've even stopped taking my gri-gri up on redpoint attempts.

However all the vaguely trickier things are taking me two or so sessions: One session to work out the fat and weak beta and get used to going for some proper attempts, including usually a couple of very close goes. Then a second session where I barely warm-up, have one go where I fuck something up, then redpoint it relatively easy (still feels desperate ofc). Same with bloques I guess.

So pro-tips for Doing The Deed In A Session?? I'm not that desperate  / concerned but am generally interested and trying to use this malarkey as some sort of learning experience too...

Ta. x

[tomtom]

Climb faster 💕

[Fiend]

Twat. I climb pretty fast on redpoint (and indoors) apart from tactically milking rests, using speed and momentum to compensate for the weakness and unfitness.

[andy popp]

To state the obvious, isn't this about finding the grade you can redpoint in a session? Choose well and in advance, Know what the aim is, be tactical and efficient.

[monkoffunk]

How many goes does it take to do figure out the fat weak beta? If it’s one go then Andy is probably right.

If not maybe you need to spend more time on the first work go. I find I have a tendency to figure out one way of doing things and try to redpoint that before falling off and realising there was an easier way. Then I improve my beta each go, just not quite enough to account for the increased fatigue building up. 

Better people than me seem to spend more time figuring out the easiest way to do everything first go up, even if they did the harder way pretty easily when dogging it.

But sounds like you might be doing that already?

[jwi]

I have never been able to reliably do routes harder than my onsight max in a session. I think this is quite common for people who are not shit at onsighting. Those who are can sometimes reliably do routes one half grade above their onsight max in a session, more than this is asking for a lot.

[andy popp]

I have never been able to reliably do routes harder than my onsight max in a session. I think this is quite common for people who are not shit at onsighting. Those who are can sometimes reliably do routes one half grade above their onsight max in a session, more than this is asking for a lot.

I could, for a while, pretty reliably do a half grade under my redpoint maximum in a session. But this was probably mostly down to a) never really trying to push my redpointing + b) careful route selection.

[mrjonathanr]

Frig it to death while you are working it; conserve energy and spend plenty of time tinkering and perfecting sections.
Absolutely wire the finish too, so you can do it pumped silly.

[jwi]

I have never been able to reliably do routes harder than my onsight max in a session. I think this is quite common for people who are not shit at onsighting. Those who are can sometimes reliably do routes one half grade above their onsight max in a session, more than this is asking for a lot.

I could, for a while, pretty reliably do a half grade under my redpoint maximum in a session. But this was probably mostly down to a) never really trying to push my redpointing + b) careful route selection.

Jeez. Was your RP maximum really your RP max though?

I guess careful route selection comes into it a bit, but anything that is reputed to be technically easy/easy to onsight I try to save for the ... onsight...

[Ged]

Given that you keep mentioning how weak, unfit and fat you are, maybe get less weak, unfit and fat? I'm guessing you're not a fan of fingerboarding and stuff like that, but you'll be on a quite spectacular improvement curve for a few weeks.

[tomtom]

So to summarise.

Climb faster
Get thinner
Climb easier routes
Get better/quicker at figuring out routes
Minimise effort when practicing by only working the hard bits (aka frig better)
Stop listening to Gabba

Had your monthly lattice assessment? 😱

[Fiend]

Stop listening to Gabba

Christ. I expected some daft comedy answers but nothing this silly.

Thanks for the serious replies. I think monk is on to something, will reply later.

[andy popp]

I have never been able to reliably do routes harder than my onsight max in a session. I think this is quite common for people who are not shit at onsighting. Those who are can sometimes reliably do routes one half grade above their onsight max in a session, more than this is asking for a lot.

I could, for a while, pretty reliably do a half grade under my redpoint maximum in a session. But this was probably mostly down to a) never really trying to push my redpointing + b) careful route selection.

Jeez. Was your RP maximum really your RP max though?

No, almost certainly not, as I pretty much said. But the point or question is, what does Fiend want out of sport climbing? Does he want to find where his absolute maximum might lie or does he want to find climbs that he can do in a day but are still challenging for him. The latter probably, which is also what I enjoyed. This isn't about picking easy routes but about finding routes that walk that fine line.

[guypercival]

Apart from the obvious which is training to get stronger and fitter to improve your “in a day grade”
A few things to consider;
You need to get the clips right.
Work out how you are going to clip on the hard bits and treat like you would a move. Do you need to extend them? Do you need to skip a clip? If you decide to skip then don’t change your mind on the RP. If the hard bit is at the bottom, clip the first couple and get down to the ground without weighting the rope.
If you have decided to go for a RP never ever shout take. 100% focus on trying to climb through if you fall you fall. The only things you can shout are watch us as you start the hard bit or off if you are actually off.
Finally don’t forget plenty of visualisation to the point that you don’t even hear on what your mate is saying if he interrupts your visualisation flow.

[tomtom]

Don’t forget to take the ‘tight rope please’ sticker off your helmet too....

[shark]

If you are going to be ruthless with in a day tactics I would scour the internet and pick the brains of friends to establish a target route in the right grade range and that suits you and glean as much beta as possible from them and the interweb. Ideally your partner will have already done the route.

I’d plan my day to make sure to go when the sun was off it. I’d sort out how to warm up either at the crag or before leaving home.

I’d clip stick to the top to get an overall feel of the route and start working some moves on the way down making sure not to overcook it. I’d have a second working go to refine all the moves, clips, resting positions. I’d then have at least 20 minutes rest mentally rehearsing the moves before going for it.

Going for a taxing walk helps clear the mind and keep the blood flowing. A couple of jelly babies before a redpoint can help. Otherwise keep grazing on non-sugary stuff ie seeds, nuts, cheese, cold meats through the day. Obsess about staying warm at the crag - take plenty of clothing like over trousers.

If the rest before an attempt is more than 20 minutes then I’d re-recruit fingers on a portable board or by bearing down on some holds at the base of the crag. Subsequent redpoint attempts will benefit from longer rests and re-recruiting and a walk.

Other equipment suggestions to take that could give you an edge. Secret stuff liquid chalk, friction labs chalk, knee pads, variety of shoes, tape+superglue and (new to me this) Germolene new skin.

Just before the redpoint go you will need to say out loud “I am the FIEND and I will dominate this pile of toss. I have spoken and it is true”

I appreciate that apart from the last bit of advice the rest might not constitute Fiendish behaviour.

[tomtom]

Visualise success..,,, 😃

[shark]

Yes. Thank you for reminding me. Selecting a belayer who pays a modicum of attention and is therefore less likely to short rope you, on the fucking crux FFS, helps improve the chances of redpoint success.

[Will Hunt]

Can we have some context? What sort of grade are you targeting, Fiend? And how are you on this sort of grade currently? Can you generally onsight, or do in a couple of goes, the moves between the bolts? Are the moves between the bolts taking some figuring out?

My very limited experience of redpointing has all been in-a-day, or if on a time-limited session (evening sesh or sun coming onto the wall etc) I'll come back later in the week and do it first go. This is on 7b or 7b+ kind of stuff. Haven't really got stuck into 7c yet. I can generally onsight or work out the moves between the bolts very quickly. So I'll dog up and lower a little to go over tricky sections a couple of times, work out what holds to rest on etc. Refresh my memory of key bits on the final lower from the top. Things often go 1st RP like that but sometimes take a couple of goes.

Key learning points were to not underestimate how useful extended draws could be (like on Cruisin or Comedy, a very extended draw allows you to clip it from straight arms whereas you'd normally pull up to the draw, clip, then sink back onto the holds to set up for the next move - basically adding a move or two to your route). Also, making sure the top is well sussed is absolutely vital. Dropping some cruxy moves low down when not tired is easy to recover from; falling off easier ground at the chain because you're pumped senseless much less so. I did that on Space Race and so puny is my engine that I didn't recover all day and I've still not been back!

[Rob F]

Some very wise words from Shark - the master of doing things in a day-cade...

[Yossarian]

This is all solid gold stuff.

I find I struggle to contain excitement / enthusiasm when the moves feel ok or after doing a good link. Expectation then builds and I then fuck up the sequence. (I’ve never really RPd anything vastly harder than in-a-day level, so I tend to figure out white quickly whether I’m going to manage something or give up.) Recent experience shows sequence concentration goes up rapidly as signs of fatigue / bad skin manifest themselves. More visualisation / calming / minimising expectation pre first redpoint is the thing I’m trying to work on way more than anything else.

[Paul B]

Yes. Thank you for reminding me. Selecting a belayer who pays a modicum of attention and is therefore less likely to short rope you, on the fucking crux FFS, helps improve the chances of redpoint success.

Only short roping you? You've been lucky. The first time I ever managed to get through the crux of RNP my call for 'slack' to clip was heard as 'take' and apart from a short lived moment of resistance I was literally dragged off the wall.

Divorce may have been mentioned... This has now happened more than once!

Which routes have been evading you Fiend?

[petejh]

My £0.02:

Two ways to improve (at anything). 1.Training. 2. Repetition.
If you're not seriously into training away from the crag - and from what I know about you you're not - then it's about mileage at the crag. There will be a grade & style of route you can do in a session. Do as many of them as you can, even the shitty ones. Your in-a-session grade should go up over time.

[shark]

Some very wise words from Shark - the master of doing things in a day-cade...

My fault there, with hindsight, was choosing a route that was too hard and didn’t suit me and then not giving up. I think my tactics when trying it are good. They have to be.

[T_B]

My redpoint max is 8b, 8a+ has taken 2 - 10 sessions. I’ve done a few 8as in a sess, best effort being Cidersoak in 2.5hrs.

Choose a route that suits your style
Watch videos of people on it. Learn the sequences before arriving at the crag.
Get mate to put draws in if poss, clean, dry holds.
Work each section very carefully. I don’t clip stick up stuff personally, I have negative associations with it. Get the top really, really wired, imagining what it will be like pumped or powered out. A sequence off the rope needs to be realistic on redpoint.
Visualise.
Focus.
Only go for it when you’re ready.
Be precise when you climb. Don’t rush it. Be ‘in the moment’.
Try really hard.
If you fall off be positive, you may need less rest than you think and you will find the technicality of the moves easier even if you’re more tired.

Personally I see quick redpoint as easier for good on-sighters than those who spend a lot of time siegeing. You need a similar type of focus and ability to not cock things up with minimal muscle memory.